The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part III

[Sensmileletsgo]

It's too bad he's in a position where he has no say over any of the decisions that have led the team to this point....oh wait....

He has made far to many trades since being GM, starting with Zibanejad. This team would be far better if they stayed the course.

 

[God Says No]

Yeah, I got PD at 5-5 with pretty much all the wins were the minor deals. I didn't include the very minor deals and the second Brassard deal is up in the air for me.

 

[stempniaksen]

They also went out of thir way to say that losing those big trades were way, way more impactful than winning the smaller "Stalberg for a 3rd" throwaway deals. They all gave him a failing grade overall based on losing the major trades.

It still blows my mind that someone thinks he's won 70% of his trades, but at least this extra info makes it (slightly) less ridiculous.

 

[BonkTastic]

Yeah, I got PD at 5-5 with pretty much all the wins were the minor deals. I didn't include the very minor deals and the second Brassard deal is up in the air for me.

I actually think that 2nd Brassard deal was pretty ok.

Not great, but good. Easily his best "big" trade. It's a shame that the bad trade he made to get Brassard in the first place kind of nullifies it.

 

[Sens]

You could actually make a very respectable club of just Ottawa drafted players

 

[Sting]

I don't feel bad for Pierre. Anyone could have told you last year we were in no position to go all-in by trading for Duchene. It was a huge risk by dealing a player that was slightly worse than him in addition to a ton of assets. It made no sense.

I would feel bad for Pierre if he went this bottom-dwelling team up to succeed and despite his best efforts it was going nowhere.

No, the right thing to do would have been to accept what the team was, and load up on picks while keeping your own. Instead, he made a very low percentage gamble and turned it into a disaster.

Any competent GM / human would have known what he was getting into.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I feel bad for Pierre in that he did what a lot of people complained Murray didn't do, Bryan played it too safe. In comes Dorion who really tries hard to get the team pieces it needs to "level up" and it back-fired spectacularly.

Honestly, the real lesson is probably that you shouldn't be wheeling and dealing as much as Dorion did. I think it's quite clear that the team trading Turris the way they did, did not go down well in the locker room.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I feel bad for Pierre in that he did what a lot of people complained Murray didn't do, Bryan played it too safe. In comes Dorion who really tries hard to get the team pieces it needs to "level up" and it back-fired spectacularly.

Honestly, the real lesson is probably that you shouldn't be wheeling and dealing as much as Dorion did. I think it's quite clear that the team trading Turris the way they did, did not go down well in the locker room.

Yeah I can't put all the blame on Dorien for what happened to the Senators last year. Whatever caused the locker room to implode, that wasn't his fault.

Sure the team overachieved the year before by making a playoff run, but they had s0me solid pieces. Upgrading Turris to Duchene . . while costly, as a pure hockey move certainly improved the team.

I don't think i would have given that much up for Duchene . . . but hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Maybe I would have.

 

[BondraTime]

He's a guy with zero GM experience (and very minimal Asst. GM experience) being given the reigns on a team where every GM in the league would be behind the 8 ball.

Doesn't matter who our GM is, he is going to have a harder job than his cohorts. Pierre started behind the 8 ball before even taking Melnyk into account. It isn't surprising a green GM who had little/no experience in signing or trading guys would struggle. He spent 15 years as a scout and then was made an Asst. GM for 3 prior to making the jump to GM.

Even a guy like Yzerman was VP of Hockey Ops for 5 years and GM for the WC 3 years prior to making the jump to GM, and he has infinite more knowledge on how hockey works than 99.9% of people, Dorion included.

Dorion was thrust, too early, into a position he wasn't ready or qualified for, in which even the most hardened GM would have their troubles. It's no surprise at the flop it's been.

He was great as our Director or Amateur Scouting. He'll find a job like that nearly as soon as he's let go from here.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Pierre Dorion is very much like me in Fantasy:

I panic when some of my players aren't performing, drop them for "hot" players, and then realize I'm going in circles while dwindling down the standings. The other guys in my league laugh at me as they prosper with my dropped players as they have great seasons.

I still think I could do a better job with the Sens though.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Yeah I can't put all the blame on Dorien for what happened to the Senators last year. Whatever caused the locker room to implode, that wasn't his fault.

Sure the team overachieved the year before by making a playoff run, but they had s0me solid pieces. Upgrading Turris to Duchene . . while costly, as a pure hockey move certainly improved the team.

I don't think i would have given that much up for Duchene . . . but hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Maybe I would have.

This reads like satire.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Yeah I can't put all the blame on Dorien for what happened to the Senators last year. Whatever caused the locker room to implode, that wasn't his fault.

Sure the team overachieved the year before by making a playoff run, but they had s0me solid pieces. Upgrading Turris to Duchene . . while costly, as a pure hockey move certainly improved the team.

I don't think i would have given that much up for Duchene . . . but hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Maybe I would have.

Its too bad that he'd never go back to that role for the Senators.

 

[JungleBeat]

I don’t feel bad for Dorion at all. Can’t wait until this smug idiot is fired.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I don’t feel bad for Dorion at all. Can’t wait until this smug idiot is fired.

No kidding. It's really bugged me that he's shown no humility whatsoever about his mistakes. He may speak in generalities about how the organization in general has to do better, but everything is just "no regrets, and I would make all these deals over again" bs whenever he's pressed on his moves.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[God Says No]

I actually think that 2nd Brassard deal was pretty ok.

Not great, but good. Easily his best "big" trade. It's a shame that the bad trade he made to get Brassard in the first place kind of nullifies it.

I'm not sure about that. It all hinges on Gustavsson. If he pans out then yeah it was a good deal. If he becomes an AHL goalie or a backup then he failed (again). That's why I'm holding out on a verdict.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

As expected.

[MOD]

 

[BonkTastic]

I'm not sure about that. It all hinges on Gustavsson. If he pans out then yeah it was a good deal. If he becomes an AHL goalie or a backup then he failed (again). That's why I'm holding out on a verdict.

We didn't just get Gustavsson. We also got the 22nd overall pick, and a 3rd rounder in the 2019 draft.

The 22nd overall pick, we then used to trade back 4 spots in the draft to the 26 spot to get the guy we were going to take at 22 anyways (Bernard-Docker), and picked up the 2nd rounder that turned into Jonny Tychonick in the trade as well.

So in a roundabout way, we traded Brassard (and a 3rd) for:
- Gus
- Bernard-Docker
- Tychonick
- a 3rd round pick in the upcoming draft.

I dislike Dorion and think he deserves to be fired, but I'll always give someone credit when it's due, and he made out pretty well in that little package of trades. A lot of his moves are bad IMO, but that doesn't mean they all are.

Obviously it all hinges on 3 future assets (the 3rd rounders are a wash), so in that context everything is TBD, but the trade value was there.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The crazy part is how the grades probably change quite a bit if we keep Duchene. I din't think he'd go from F to A, but there would/should a lot more Cs

 

[Sens]

We didn't just get Gustavsson. We also got the 22nd overall pick, and a 3rd rounder in the 2019 draft.

The 22nd overall pick, we then used to trade back 4 spots in the draft to the 26 spot to get the guy we were going to take at 22 anyways (Bernard-Docker), and picked up the 2nd rounder that turned into Jonny Tychonick in the trade as well.

So in a roundabout way, we traded Brassard (and a 3rd) for:
- Gus
- Bernard-Docker
- Tychonick
- a 3rd round pick in the upcoming draft.

I dislike Dorion and think he deserves to be fired, but I'll always give someone credit when it's due, and he made out pretty well in that little package of trades. A lot of his moves are bad IMO, but that doesn't mean they all are.

Obviously it all hinges on 3 future assets (the 3rd rounders are a wash), so in that context everything is TBD, but the trade value was there.

Unfortunately the starting point of this process was moving the 6th overall pick in 2011... picking that high ended up being a waste

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The crazy part is how the grades probably change quite a bit if we keep Duchene. I din't think he'd go from F to A, but there would/should a lot more Cs

Likely they shift somewhat.. He still gets an F from me

 

[Tundraman]

What didn't help Dorion are these add-on picks and swaps to save a buck or even to make a deal happen in so many cases. They just seem to reek rookie GM and or penny pinching but then they waste even more bucks elsewhere picking up dud extras to pad the roster. Those often made the deals feel worse especially if someone wasn't on board to begin with.

I'm honestly never sure if Dorion is procrastinating on decisions leaving it to the last minute or if these non decisions are all pre planned. We might not like the answer but it would help understand things better if we knew they actually had a plan. Right now so many things that have happened are counter intuitive and seem so haphazard.

 

[BonkTastic]

Unfortunately the starting point of this process was moving the 6th overall pick in 2011... picking that high ended up being a waste

Oh for sure, agreed, I said as much in a previous post.

 

[Spartachat]

In defence of PD, he has been doing everything his boss has told him.

 

[God Says No]

We didn't just get Gustavsson. We also got the 22nd overall pick, and a 3rd rounder in the 2019 draft.

The 22nd overall pick, we then used to trade back 4 spots in the draft to the 26 spot to get the guy we were going to take at 22 anyways (Bernard-Docker), and picked up the 2nd rounder that turned into Jonny Tychonick in the trade as well.

So in a roundabout way, we traded Brassard (and a 3rd) for:
- Gus
- Bernard-Docker
- Tychonick
- a 3rd round pick in the upcoming draft.

I dislike Dorion and think he deserves to be fired, but I'll always give someone credit when it's due, and he made out pretty well in that little package of trades. A lot of his moves are bad IMO, but that doesn't mean they all are.

Obviously it all hinges on 3 future assets (the 3rd rounders are a wash), so in that context everything is TBD, but the trade value was there.

Forgot about the Tychonick trade but the 3rd rounder was actually a downgrade. We gave up a higher 3rd rounder to get PIT's lower 3rd rounder. I think that washes out Tychonick in my mind, so really it's Gus and JBD for a 2nd line center at the time. Again, as I said I'll reserve judgement until Gus/JBD develop. I didn't this trade towards my scorecard.