The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part II

[BatherSeason]

Because he has been a successful scout in the NHL since he was 22, took over our draft table in 2007 after we were the laughingstock of the league draft wise from 2004-2007 and helped turn us into the premier, or one of the premier teams on draft day for the next 7/8 years.

He also handpicked Trent Mann from obscurity, who is now one of the best scouts in the league.

Again, how is this measured?? The media had to sell the fans on this hire, so they went out of their way to make him seem like he is the best scout the league has ever seen, backed up by quotes from his golfing buddy.

Is Dorion responsible for the drafting of Jim O'Brien (2007), Jared Cowen (2009), Jacob Culek (2010), Stefan Noesen, Puempel, Curtis Lazar, Cody Ceci....these are all very underwhelming first round draft picks. Sure Karlsson turned out fantastic, but you are stating that he has turned this organization into a drafting super power and that seems to be far from the truth. Our farm system is a joke, if our team was such a drafting super power, we would be beaming with prospects.

Did he hit it big with some late round gems? Absolutely, Mark Stone, Hoffman, Pageau. But really, once you hit the later rounds of the draft, its basically a lottery ticket.

Look at the draft history, while it looks ok, its not nearly as good as you believe.

List of Ottawa Senators draft picks - Wikipedia

 

[BondraTime]

He may be a great amateur scout but there is only 1 of him, and he's a GM now with more limited scouting availability.
Fortunately he has a large staff of experience amateur and pro scou... ah right nevermind.

Sens
1 professional Chief scout
- 2 pro scouts reporting to him
1 amateur Chief scout
- 6 scouts NA reporting to him
- 1 Euro Scout

11 scouts

Leafs
1 Director of player evaluation to whom everyone reports
- director of US scouting
- director of eastern scouting
- director of western scouting
- director of european scouting
they have 12 amateur scouts reporting into these people

1 Director of Pro scouting
- 5 pro scouts reporting to him

23 scouts

Canucks have 19 various scouts
Habs have 22 scouts
Winnipeg have 20 scouts
Flames have 17 scouts
Oiler have 18 scouts

And the rest of our organization looks the same in comparison to the others.

Sens Amateur Scouts:
Trent Mann - Chief Amateur Scout
Mikko Ruutu - Cheif European Scout
Justin Murray - OHL/QMJHL
Georger Fargher - OHL/US
Don Boyd - WHL/BCHL/US
Jimmy Blixt - European Scout
Frank Kollar - Goalies
Anders Ostberg - European Scout
Bobby Strumm - WHL
Dan Boeser - USHS/Midwest
Todd Stirling - US Northwest

11 Amateur Scouts

Our problem lies in Pro Scouting

Jim Clark - Chief Pro Scout
Bob Janecyk - European (assuming he has incriminating photos to still be here)
John Perpich
Michael Abbotsford

4 Pro Scouts

 

[BondraTime]

Again, how is this measured?? Is Dorion responsible for the drafting of Jim O'Brien (2007), Jared Cowen (2009), Jacob Culek (2010), Stefan Noesen, Puempel, Curtis Lazar, Cody Ceci....these are all very underwhelming first round draft picks. Sure Karlsson turned out fantastic, but you are stating that he has turned this organization into a drafting super power and that seems to be far from the truth. Our farm system is a joke, if our team was such a drafting super power, we would be beaming with prospects.

Did he hit it big with some late round gems? Absolutely, Mark Stone, Hoffman, Pageau. But really, once you hit the later rounds of the draft, its basically a lottery ticket.

Well no, it isn't. That's where good scouting comes into play.

 

[BatherSeason]

scouting comes into play

I guess we see it differently. I accept your point of view, but just disagree.

 

[Upgrayedd]

He may be a great amateur scout but there is only 1 of him, and he's a GM now with more limited scouting availability.
Fortunately he has a large staff of experience amateur and pro scou... ah right nevermind.

Sens
1 professional Chief scout
- 2 pro scouts reporting to him
1 amateur Chief scout
- 6 scouts NA reporting to him
- 1 Euro Scout

11 scouts

Leafs
1 Director of player evaluation to whom everyone reports
- director of US scouting
- director of eastern scouting
- director of western scouting
- director of european scouting
they have 12 amateur scouts reporting into these people

1 Director of Pro scouting
- 5 pro scouts reporting to him

23 scouts

Canucks have 19 various scouts
Habs have 22 scouts
Winnipeg have 20 scouts
Flames have 17 scouts
Oiler have 18 scouts

And the rest of our organization looks the same in comparison to the others.

Lol, this makes sense and makes you laugh and then cry....ol pennypincher would call this lean and mean tho!

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Plus a first rounder? No I missed that and no thanks. If it were one for one? hell yeah.

That was the rumour going around prior to the expansion draft .... yes rumour, so put as much stock in it as you like ....... but the VGK passed on a lot of players on other teams, and got a few good deals in the process.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Sens Amateur Scouts:
Trent Mann - Chief Amateur Scout
Mikko Ruutu - Cheif European Scout
Justin Murray - OHL/QMJHL
Georger Fargher - OHL/US
Don Boyd - WHL/BCHL/US
Jimmy Blixt - European Scout
Frank Kollar - Goalies
Anders Ostberg - European Scout
Bobby Strumm - WHL
Dan Boeser - USHS/Midwest
Todd Stirling - US Northwest

11 Amateur Scouts

Would you know the league average?

 

[JungleBeat]

Is Dorion responsible for the drafting of Jim O'Brien (2007), Jared Cowen (2009), Jacob Culek (2010), Stefan Noesen, Puempel, Curtis Lazar, Cody Ceci....these are all very underwhelming first round draft picks. Sure Karlsson turned out fantastic, but you are stating that he has turned this organization into a drafting super power and that seems to be far from the truth. Our farm system is a joke, if our team was such a drafting super power, we would be beaming with prospects.

Have to agree with this. Our scouting gets overhyped a bit too much. Yes, we hit late round gems like Stone,Hoffman and Pageau but our first round track record is underwhelming. 2012 -2014 where awful drafts.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Have to agree with this. Our scouting gets overhyped a bit too much. Yes, we hit late round gems like Stone,Hoffman and Pageau but our first round track record is underwhelming. 2012 -2014 where awful drafts.

I think we earned the reputation as a good drafting and developing team from 92-01, but 02-07 we were awful at the draft table and although we drafted Karlsson in 08, we haven’t been that great in the last decade or so, especially in the first round.

Lots of hype around White, Chabot, Brown, Batherson and Formenton, but there was lots of hype around Cowen, Lazar and others that didn’t pan out too. Not trying to say our young guys won’t work out, but I’ve learned to temper my expectations over the years.

We’ve also traded too many picks in recent years.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I guess we see it differently. I accept your point of view, but just disagree.

do you think late round picks are picked out of a hat?

 

[Tuna99]

I think we earned the reputation as a good drafting and developing team from 92-01, but 02-07 we were awful at the draft table and although we drafted Karlsson in 08, we haven’t been that great in the last decade or so, especially in the first round.

Lots of hype around White, Chabot, Brown, Batherson and Formenton, but there was lots of hype around Cowen, Lazar and others that didn’t pan out too. Not trying to say our young guys won’t work out, but I’ve learned to temper my expectations over the years.

We’ve also traded too many picks in recent years.

One thing I like about Dorion is he has let the kids play in Bingo and hasn't hyped the prospects like Murray did. There is some patience to the prospects and Boucher and Dorion have taken a ton of heat over it, so good for themfor sticking to their guns.

 

[JungleBeat]

One thing I like about Dorion is he has let the kids play in Bingo and hasn't hyped the prospects like Murray did. There is some patience to the prospects and Boucher and Dorion have taken a ton of heat over it, so good for themfor sticking to their guns.

Patience doesn’t mean much when our AHL system in the worst in the league.

 

[Tuna99]

Patience doesn’t mean much when our AHL system in the worst in the league.

Nothing to see here, just rebuilding with nothing in the AHL and no 1st rounder next year or money to keep anyone around.

Hot dogs are amazing though. It's almost as if a baseball executive was put in charge of a hockey team and his #1 solution was better tube-steaks.

 

[BatherSeason]

do you think late round picks are picked out of a hat?

Nope, just think there is a little more luck involved than most people think.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sens Amateur Scouts:
11 Amateur Scouts
4 Pro Scouts

Would you know the league average?

And further more do you have a current reliable source to support your answer and your claim?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

do you think late round picks are picked out of a hat?

I thought it was a dart board ... where did you hear this about a hat?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

One thing I like about Dorion is he has let the kids play in Bingo and hasn't hyped the prospects like Murray did. There is some patience to the prospects and Boucher and Dorion have taken a ton of heat over it, so good for themfor sticking to their guns.

Boucher and Dorion deserve all the heat they get..They earned it big time.

 

[Micklebot]

Would you know the league average?

A bit dated, but in 2014, silversevensens did the research, and pegged the average at a touch over 17 (and growing, he had it at 14 in 2012). Ottawa at 13 both years, which ranked 26th and 25th in the league respectively

NHL Scouting Departments: A League-Wide Survey

Important note, what's not indicated in the numbers above is how many are full time, the link does touch on that, for example, stating that 6 of StL's scouts are part time.

 

[BondraTime]

A bit dated, but in 2014, silversevensens did the research, and pegged the average at a touch over 17 (and growing, he had it at 14 in 2012). Ottawa at 13 both years, which ranked 26th and 25th in the league respectively

NHL Scouting Departments: A League-Wide Survey

Important note, what's not indicated in the numbers above is how many are full time, the link does touch on that, for example, stating that 6 of StL's scouts are part time.

The Sens have 2 part time Scouts, both out of the States.

 

[Wondercarrot]

And further more do you have a current reliable source to support your answer and your claim?

my sarcasm meter is broken so i cant tell if you are messing the Count or what but for my part from the first post it was from each team's website. probably not spot on at any time but it shows a pattern.
other teams are around 20 and we are around 11-13 i guess.
because of course "you dont need to be a cap team to win, you just need to be smarter, draft and develop players better than the others" - paraphrasing The Euge who was full of shit every time he said it, as he he no intention of following through

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

my sarcasm meter is broken so i cant tell if you are messing the Count or what but for my part from the first post it was from each team's website. probably not spot on at any time but it shows a pattern.
other teams are around 20 and we are around 11-13 i guess.
because of course "you dont need to be a cap team to win, you just need to be smarter, draft and develop players better than the others" - paraphrasing The Euge who was full of **** every time he said it, as he he no intention of following through

just messin'

 

[BondraTime]

my sarcasm meter is broken so i cant tell if you are messing the Count or what but for my part from the first post it was from each team's website. probably not spot on at any time but it shows a pattern.
other teams are around 20 and we are around 11-13 i guess.
because of course "you dont need to be a cap team to win, you just need to be smarter, draft and develop players better than the others" - paraphrasing The Euge who was full of **** every time he said it, as he he no intention of following through

We have 15 Scouts this season

 

[Wondercarrot]

We have 15 Scouts this season

they should hire someone to update their website

 

[Langdon Alger]

One thing I like about Dorion is he has let the kids play in Bingo and hasn't hyped the prospects like Murray did. There is some patience to the prospects and Boucher and Dorion have taken a ton of heat over it, so good for themfor sticking to their guns.

Pretty sure all Dorion does is hype prospects.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Boucher and Dorion deserve all the heat they get..They earned it big time.

As did Bryan Murray when he was GM. He doesn’t get an F, but it’s not much higher for me.