Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Tundraman, Jan 4, 2019.
That's not true. Once we get a new owner and win the Cup, we will put in fine print "**** Melnyk"
What information did he provide other than things that were negative (we have to reach the cap floor, ect). I guess I'm not arguin the interview was informative (to a certain extent) but I'm not sure how it can be viewed as a positive either.
Shows once again what a POS this owner is, why do we absolutely have to support this guy (Melnyk) again?
The COO's interview was horrendous. Nobody in this organization has a clue
Melnyk Dorion Boucher are three clowns who have no business being apart of any NHL team. This guy is another clueless moron to join the team
This suggests that you are saying that ANY criticism of the interview can be outright dismissed, by fabricating a false causal association between criticism of the interview and poor listening/crirical thinking skills.
I'll say this again - it is a poor argument, and bad reasoning. You have a background in law - you should know better than anyone here why this is an awful argument.
Fans, particularly the ones here, are passionate and that's going to illicit emotional reactions so I concede that at times reactions may be more pronounced. However, the very fact that people may not listen well because of a pre-existing negative "bias" as you are arguing is still a huge problem and demonstrates clearly the lack of trust. Quite frankly, it doesnt matter who is right on how we got here or if the organisation thinks its unfair. That is how people feel and it needs to be addressed not ***** footed around. To me the solution is evident and simple - provide the fans with transparency, back your words up with actions and if you expect investment from the fans demonstrate recipricol investment.
All that said I think it is a bit disingenuous to say that people are not capable of separating emotion and actively listening to the content that was delivered, which quite frankly, was disconnected, rambling answers that at no point answered the questions being asked or the questions I have as a fan. All I could think of was Billy Madison and the industrial revolution question -
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I did not find anything that the COO said last night "horrendous"...... in fact I found it informative if anything.
I'm curious as to what you thought was "horrendous" though.
I also would like to hear what @ianmendes thought about what the COO said last night, and if the reaction some people here are having, is warranted.
What was informative to you?
All of it.
Did he provide anything new that you hadn't already known?
Why are you bothering with this line of questioning?
Here, let me answer every question you have for him with a handy flow-chart:
1) Does the question have a possible answer that either defends or protects the team/organization/management in any way?
a) If yes: he will answer in a way that defends / protects the team/org.
b) If no: he won't respond to your question at all.
Personally I was very surprised when he announced that the Sens would have to spend to the collectively bargained cap floor. And as a fan .. . very excited by the notion.
No, just a rehash of stuff that came out of the town halls last year.
Sure the early date of when he expected the re-build to shift into the next phase are a bit optimistic if you ask me.
But still, suck for a few seasons, then as the "window" opens, spend as necessary.
Not all of it, but a great deal of it I simply interpreted objectively.
My background in law has taught me a lot, but I am not playing a lawyer here, I don't have the time and inclination to do that. But my actual business of real estate gives me a lot of actual experience into this area. If two people do not like each other, it doesn't matter what is said. There is no objectivity. One can not interpret the facts as best as they could.
You make some good points, but what you see as disingenuous , I see as something else. Being treated a certain way by many angry, irrational posters has allowed me to formulate exactly who I am debating with, and the type of people they portray here. I think you are giving "your side" of the argument far too much credit. Yours is very balanced, but others...not so much.
I don't think there is anything he could have said yesterday that would have been positive. That, sadly, is the impression I get here. And no one here has proven that sentiment wrong.
So you do not find it insulting that he is trying to explain to us that under Melnyk they have a better win % than the expansion era team?
That when asked what type of investment in the team is being made to be ready to field a cap team he rambled on about the sens foundation and how he has to maintain the CTV Not a single mention of Hockey ops investment?
That his main point was well we have to spend to the floor so don't worry we will hit the floor?
If any business is seeking for me to spend my money on their product,, being disengenous and arrogant is not the way to go.
P.s. Cancelled my season tickets 3 years ago because of mister Cost per point. That's before the whole Karlsson mess. I was a hardcore fan since day 1, if this owner managed to make me not give a **** about this team anymore they are in serious trouble.
You don't have to do anything. Team is in the dumpster. Lots of people abandon the team, others stick around.
Which itself was the complete opposite of informative.
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I honestly don't think you did.
You are suggesting that you are the only one here able to approach the interview with an unbiased ear, and I have to say that you're just as guilty as the people you are accusing of being too emotionally comprimised to be able to parse objective details from a block of conversation. You are simply biased in the other direction. Bias is bias. If you're going to dismiss everyone else's opinion on those terms, you are leaving yourself open to that same line of reasoning.
I can't see how anyone could apply unbiased logic to what was said last night and come to the conclusion that it was anything other than deliberate obfuscation of context and an attempt to deflect criticism by way of diversionary dialogue and stalling conversational tactics.
If you are going to make statements like this, it would be a much more effective discussion to go and and express specifically what you heard and interpreted differently. Simply telling others they are wrong doesn't really move a discussion forward. Explaining what you heard differently would be much more useful.
No need to even show how others are wrong - just show what you heard.
(Note I'm jumping off your post, but this applies to many posters across the spectrum of opinion).
Dogged the question on investment into hockey ops and coaching talking about bull**** like the amount of Sensplexes we have lmao says it's not true - in spite of the FACT we have one of the smallest hockey ops departments in the league, have a GM with no reputation (actually a bargain bin GM who has built a terrible reputation) and an owner who laughed at the thought of paying a coach north of 4 million. "Does he walk on water"
Used the previous expansion ownership and 10% increase in wins from 40% to 50% after Melnyk took over as a means to state the legitimacy of Melnyk as an owner. When the question was on spending to the cap - ding ding weve always been a budget team.
Said losing Stone should actually just be seen as an opportunity by the fans lmao
And worst of all went out of his way to make a point of saying - dont worry, we actually HAVE to spend to the cap minimum. The CBA forces us to.
Guy is a compete ****ing moron without a clue.
Hmmm, impressively put. But I don't see how many here would come to any other conclusion.
Here is what I took:
1. They are doing everything they can to sign all three. But it is not a situation that they can control. Players have free will. I didn't think they were hell bent on Dzingel as well, so that was a plus for the COO to say all three. We have heard about offers, not much going on etc...from all the Insiders ,but he gave the strongest indication as to the all out effort to sign these guys.
2. They do have a plan should they not be successful in signing them. Sounds logical, right? It's not like February 24 comes around and they look at each other and say "now what". People will interpret that comment as him saying they won't sign. I just see it as planning ahead. I bet they have already targeted the replacements by now. I would.
3. They will have to spend money to the cap floor, MINIMUM. I understand that losing all three will have the team under the cap. He was a little smug/sarcastic in answering a question about being active in the UFA market. Instead of saying "well, duh" to CJ, he went into the shpeel of having to get to the cap floor, minimum. That is a 16M+ hole, at the very least, logically one would assume they need to spend something similar to that.
4. Lebreton has to be done sensibly. Do they want to do the Oilers route of the 2nd highest tickets in the league to a full house to do it? Not sure where he was going with that, but that was something I remember him saying. Maybe I forgot the rest of that one. I would actually like to listen to that part again.
5. Pierre Dorion is working hard trying to sign these guys, which is why you don't hear much from him.
6. Better gameday experience. I can agree to that, except last night for obvious reasons.
7. Trying to earn back the trust of the fans, but he also wants fans to give them the opportunity to do so
8. Aww, come on man, Melnyk isn't that bad lol
9. They want to be clear about the plan, and he was annoyed that people are not following the plan that they have laid out.
So, out of all that, it is very easy to say :
1. Yeah right
2. Yeah right
3, Yeah right, lol
4. Liars, I hate you all
6. Pfft, from crap to tolerable
7. Goooooooood luck, MelnykOut
8. He is delusional
9. NO PLAN! NO PLAN!
I have my opinions. Do I believe all of it? Nope. Am I Hopeful? A little, actually. Can't be bad to hear an owner pledge to spend money, can it? To put it out as public news release is great. Do I understand what he is doing? Of course. He is prickly and smug, but I think he has a very hard job to do in a market lacking trust. Trust issues are nearly insurmountable. It all depends on one's appetite to their level of fandom. Don't blame those who want off the merry go round, but I'm not there yet.
I did, and my computer froze! Sorry for the cliffhanger, wasn't my intent
How about essentially telling the fans to be excited about there being a cap floor. However exactly that came out, my jaw dropped it came off so bad. No, that's not a silver lining to anything and never a thing any organization should say to their fans.
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