Player Discussion: The Official Jonathan Drouin Thread: Part 5

TampaJay

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Jan 16, 2016
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If Drouin stays at this pace, I can’t see him and that agent of his taking a contract like Kucherov got. If he got an offer sheet of $6.5 x 6 he’d sign it and the compensation would be two 1sts, one 2nd, and one 3rd if SY couldn’t match. I’d rather see him traded for a RHD like Justin Faulk. If we are going with Vasi, the big need is puck moving D and Drouin is the best trade chip. Then bring over Gusev
 

tjs*

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Mar 18, 2016
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First I think it's funny that people are finally coming around to what I've been saying all along about Drouin. He's just too good and we aren't going to be able to resign him cheaply. That said I can't see us trading him - again he's just too good. I say we sign him for whatever it takes so long as it's reasonable and then do what we have to with the others. I just don't see us moving Drouin to keep someone like Palat or Killorn; it's much more likely to be the other way around.
 

Sky04

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First I think it's funny that people are finally coming around to what I've been saying all along about Drouin. He's just too good and we aren't going to be able to resign him cheaply. That said I can't see us trading him - again he's just too good. I say we sign him for whatever it takes so long as it's reasonable and then do what we have to with the others. I just don't see us moving Drouin to keep someone like Palat or Killorn; it's much more likely to be the other way around.

Uhh where are people saying that, everyone has been calling a bridge deal and you've been saying he's going to be greedy and take a boatload, cause attitude, not a team player, millennial etc etc..

Most of us have 4-4.5m pegged, that still doesn't look like it's changing, he'd be incredibly foolish to take a long term deal after his results of his first 3 years or just wants to win that badly, either or doesn't look like you are anywhere close to right.
 

HoseEmDown

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First I think it's funny that people are finally coming around to what I've been saying all along about Drouin. He's just too good and we aren't going to be able to resign him cheaply. That said I can't see us trading him - again he's just too good. I say we sign him for whatever it takes so long as it's reasonable and then do what we have to with the others. I just don't see us moving Drouin to keep someone like Palat or Killorn; it's much more likely to be the other way around.

What? He's so good yet his career high in points is still only 32. He is closer to Lindholm than Monahan from his draft. Lindholm had back to back 39 point seasons and got 2.7 on a 2 year deal, Monahan had I believe back to back 60+ point seasons which got him 6.3 on a long-term deal. Drouin even if he gets closer to 60 than 39 still doesn't have the body of work to command 5-6 mil, his body of work is 2.7-4 depending how he finishes the year.
 

xteesy

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Jun 19, 2014
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Uhh where are people saying that, everyone has been calling a bridge deal and you've been saying he's going to be greedy and take a boatload, cause attitude, not a team player, millennial etc etc..

Most of us have 4-4.5m pegged, that still doesn't look like it's changing, he'd be incredibly foolish to take a long term deal after his results of his first 3 years or just wants to win that badly, either or doesn't look like you are anywhere close to right.

Sorry, I'm 100% with Sky on this one tjs.

Jo is getting signed for probably about $4m. His little stunt last year cost him a solid $500k/year on his bridge deal.

If he signs long term, he's an outright idiot.

Knowing Yzerman though who knows, the guy might work his magic and get him to sign at 3.5. Work for your Yzermagic Stevie!
 

Sky04

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Sorry, I'm 100% with Sky on this one tjs.

Jo is getting signed for probably about $4m. His little stunt last year cost him a solid $500k/year on his bridge deal.

If he signs long term, he's an outright idiot.

Knowing Yzerman though who knows, the guy might work his magic and get him to sign at 3.5. Work for your Yzermagic Stevie!

I mean a long term deal isn't completely off the table, I sincerely believe Drouin wants to be here long term and may even feel indebted to the team in a sense over his stunt last year and their willingness to forgive him, however he would probably be going against his agent on that one, makes no sense from a money standpoint to go longterm based on his results.

Either way, he's not going to be a cap problem next year. 3.5 would be magic, and it's not like it's completely unreasonable either.
 

CupsOverCash

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I remember a lot of people thinking Stamkos would be signed to a 10 plus mil deal. Maybe not here but somewhere. I remember people thinking Kucherov would be getting 6 plus a year. I remember people thinking Hedman would be paid 9-10 a year. What happened? All signed for way less than people thought. It's going to happen again with Palat, Johnson, and Drouin. Watch. I won't be surprised.
 

Sky04

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I remember a lot of people thinking Stamkos would be signed to a 10 plus mil deal. Maybe not here but somewhere. I remember people thinking Kucherov would be getting 6 plus a year. I remember people thinking Hedman would be paid 9-10 a year. What happened? All signed for way less than people thought. It's going to happen again with Palat, Johnson, and Drouin. Watch. I won't be surprised.

Considering those were all VERY realistic price ranges you can hardly fault anyone for believing they'd be signed in that range, now that precedence has been set it's not exactly going to surprise anyone that they sign for cheaper than expected..
 

TampaJay

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This conversation about Drouin’s next contract started because Bob McKenzie said that if Drouin or Panarin aren’t offer sheeted on July 1st then offer sheets are dead. His point was they are prime candidates because both teams are up against the cap and it is more than likely that an offer sheet could actually work – meaning it won’t be matched and they may really get the player and not just **** off the GM community. His logic is sound and I could see a team like Montreal doing it. It’s a win-win for them. If they don’t get Drouin because SY matched they will have still handicapped a division rival because then Tampa will have to lose either Palat or Johnson. And I could see Drouin signing it. Montreal is his home. Kuch wanted to stay in Tampa.

Every GM saw what Kucherov got and knows that SY is going to offer about $4 mil for 3 years. The worst case scenario is if Montreal offers $7 mil for 5 years because SY wouldn’t match and the compensation would only be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Once Drouin signs it, SY can’t trade him. My point was that if SY gets wind that an offer sheet is coming he could do a whole lot better by trading Drouin. And he may get wind because RFAs are allowed to talk to other teams for about a week before July 1 and you can bet your ass that Walsh is going to use the threat of an offer sheet as leverage.

I agree with the argument that Drouin’s past performance gets him a bridge deal like Johnson, but an offer sheet changes that entirely, or even the threat of one. And an offer sheet is a realistic possibility.
 

CupsOverCash

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Considering those were all VERY realistic price ranges you can hardly fault anyone for believing they'd be signed in that range, now that precedence has been set it's not exactly going to surprise anyone that they sign for cheaper than expected..

Not saying that those prices weren't a realistic range but people were saying that there was no way those guys would take anything less. You have people here saying no way Drouin takes less. Yzermans done it before he can do it again with Drouin.
 

tjs*

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This conversation about Drouin’s next contract started because Bob McKenzie said that if Drouin or Panarin aren’t offer sheeted on July 1st then offer sheets are dead. His point was they are prime candidates because both teams are up against the cap and it is more than likely that an offer sheet could actually work – meaning it won’t be matched and they may really get the player and not just **** off the GM community. His logic is sound and I could see a team like Montreal doing it. It’s a win-win for them. If they don’t get Drouin because SY matched they will have still handicapped a division rival because then Tampa will have to lose either Palat or Johnson. And I could see Drouin signing it. Montreal is his home. Kuch wanted to stay in Tampa.

Every GM saw what Kucherov got and knows that SY is going to offer about $4 mil for 3 years. The worst case scenario is if Montreal offers $7 mil for 5 years because SY wouldn’t match and the compensation would only be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Once Drouin signs it, SY can’t trade him. My point was that if SY gets wind that an offer sheet is coming he could do a whole lot better by trading Drouin. And he may get wind because RFAs are allowed to talk to other teams for about a week before July 1 and you can bet your ass that Walsh is going to use the threat of an offer sheet as leverage.

I agree with the argument that Drouin’s past performance gets him a bridge deal like Johnson, but an offer sheet changes that entirely, or even the threat of one. And an offer sheet is a realistic possibility.

Exactly!
 

Volodya Krutov

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skeptical-fry.jpg
 

CupsOverCash

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Of course a offer sheet is possible. It is available. But that doesn't mean a team will do it. When was the last time a team did it?
 

HoseEmDown

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Bishop's 6mil is off the books + Drouin's cap, we can match any offersheet if one is extended without being over the cap by more than 10%. Not worried about an offersheet and it would be absolutely dumb of any team to offer him 7mil, he's far from a 7mil player.
 

Volodya Krutov

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Offer sheets go against the cap-era principle that drafting has become the key to your success, even on the short term. Players are getting NHL ready at a younger age, and they're capable to be major contributors, before they tap into the goldmines of free-agency. Draft picks are worth a lot nowadays.

Not only you have to considerably overpay to make an offer-sheet that could be taken seriously, and secondly you'll also have to pay the "compensation pick" price which combined almost completely defeats the purpose of building a core of affordable players for a reasonable amount of time.

Teams almost never do offer-sheets for a good reason.
 

TampaJay

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Of course a offer sheet is possible. It is available. But that doesn't mean a team will do it. When was the last time a team did it?

We can’t ever really know the answer to your question because the only offer sheets we learn about are the ones that are signed. For all we know Kucherov got one and just didn’t sign it. Maybe offer sheets are dead, but I agree with McKenzie, if there ever were prime candidates, its Panarin and Drouin. I think one of Johnson, Palat, or Drouin has to go, not just for cap reasons, but for smart asset management. One of those guys could get us the RHD we need. Personally, I would keep Drouin even if it meant matching an offer sheet within reason. I can’t decide between the other two.

SY has to decide whether to head off an offer sheet with something like a 6 x 6 deal for Drouin or gamble that offer sheets are dead and go for a bridge deal. We have to trust his judgment. It’s been great so far (I’ve conveniently wiped the Carle and Callahan deals from my memory because who could reasonably predict that type of drastic decline).
 

Sky04

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We can’t ever really know the answer to your question because the only offer sheets we learn about are the ones that are signed. For all we know Kucherov got one and just didn’t sign it. Maybe offer sheets are dead, but I agree with McKenzie, if there ever were prime candidates, its Panarin and Drouin. I think one of Johnson, Palat, or Drouin has to go, not just for cap reasons, but for smart asset management. One of those guys could get us the RHD we need. Personally, I would keep Drouin even if it meant matching an offer sheet within reason. I can’t decide between the other two.

SY has to decide whether to head off an offer sheet with something like a 6 x 6 deal for Drouin or gamble that offer sheets are dead and go for a bridge deal. We have to trust his judgment. It’s been great so far (I’ve conveniently wiped the Carle and Callahan deals from my memory because who could reasonably predict that type of drastic decline).


lol dude nobody is stupid enough to push an offer sheet "out of reason" for a guy with Drouin's track record, even at your proposed 7m, we could still afford to keep him, Palat and Johnson given the discounts the other players took already. That extra 2.5m from the 4.5m lots of us have him at was already budgeted towards Kucherov anyways.

Now you honestly think someone is going to risk an offer sheet at 7.5m+ and put their own cap at risk just to try and snag Drouin? Panarin is candiate given his track record, Drouin's results are nowhere near as good.
 

Keep Sorokin Me Babe

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Jun 18, 2016
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Did all that drama about Cooper putting Drouin on the fourth line end up actually being helpful for his development? Or does he still play the exact same game and Cooper just learned to accept him for who he is
 

MattM92

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Did all that drama about Cooper putting Drouin on the fourth line end up actually being helpful for his development? Or does he still play the exact same game and Cooper just learned to accept him for who he is

He was never as bad defensively as Cooper made it seem. He still has the bad turnovers occasionally that come from him trying too hard. His biggest difference between then and now is the consistency, but that could have come from him getting older and more well adjusted, not necessarily anything to do with Cooper.
 

DFC

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Did all that drama about Cooper putting Drouin on the fourth line end up actually being helpful for his development? Or does he still play the exact same game and Cooper just learned to accept him for who he is

More the latter than the former. If anything, I think all that 4th line duty crushed his confidence, which is an integral part of his game. I think if he'd been given the kind of opportunity we're seeing Brayden Point given right now, Drouin would have made a lot of mistakes, sure, but he would have become what he is now a lot sooner.
 

MattM92

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More the latter than the former. If anything, I think all that 4th line duty crushed his confidence, which is an integral part of his game. I think if he'd been given the kind of opportunity we're seeing Brayden Point given right now, Drouin would have made a lot of mistakes, sure, but he would have become what he is now a lot sooner.

Similar to Kucherov getting 8 minutes a game in his rookie season and being benched in the playoffs. Don't think it actually helped. A lot of us defended it at the time, and even the next season when he exploded, but I don't think Cooper had much to do with that. We all saw that Kuch was special and then it wasn't until Connolly got hurt and Kuch was forced into the top 6 that he finally put it all together.
 

Sky04

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Did all that drama about Cooper putting Drouin on the fourth line end up actually being helpful for his development? Or does he still play the exact same game and Cooper just learned to accept him for who he is

His defensive game has been the exact same, he sometimes misses assignments and has some bad turnovers but as always his positives greatly outweigh his negatives, only now Cooper doesn't have TKO to hide behind so he's in a position where he NEEDS Drouin.
 

DFC

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His defensive game has been the exact same, he sometimes misses assignments and has some bad turnovers but as always his positives greatly outweigh his negatives, only now Cooper doesn't have TKO to hide behind so he's in a position where he NEEDS Drouin.

I think his defensive game has improved, but it's improved through actually making mistakes. The giveaways in particular. I mean, yeah, his player type is ALWAYS going to have some giveaways, but Drouin seems to learn from his mistakes, at least until he gets TOO confident with his puck-handling. At that point he'll sometimes repeat them. But, for instance, I think the empty net goal that was scored against us because of a Drouin mistake a few games back was probably a much better detriment than the 4th line duty ever was.

Drouin's defensive game is a lot calmer now. It used to be all hustle, but, as was pointed out by a few people here, he was basically just chasing the puck sometimes. (I feel like Stamkos was guilty of this under Boucher too.) Very early on, I mean. He seems better positionally to me. But the biggest improvement is how often he steals pucks. He's always been good at it, but it seems like he picks somebody's pocket once per game now, and, with the kind of speed he possesses, he can easily create some havoc at the other end when he catches the other team skating the wrong way.

I've always been convinced that this is a special player. I've been watching hockey a long time, and he does things I don't think I've ever seen. I don't think I've ever seen, for instance, a player actually make defenders FALL DOWN this regularly, by trying to keep up with his shifts and pivots. I think these past couple of weeks have shown us what he's capable of. I don't know if he can do that consistently, but, I mean... he's playing on a line with Val Filppula and Brian Boyle--last year, that would mean he was STILL on the fourth line--and he scored 7 goals in 7 games.
 

Steazy Doo

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Jan 31, 2013
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His defensive game has been the exact same, he sometimes misses assignments and has some bad turnovers but as always his positives greatly outweigh his negatives, only now Cooper doesn't have TKO to hide behind so he's in a position where he NEEDS Drouin.

It's been minimally improved, but still sucks.

Doesn't really matter as he's capable of being a top 5 player on this team, good defensive game or not.
 

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