The Official Horrible Trade Proposals Thread: Part 3, Still Drinking...

[WreckingCrew]

It WAS his ice. As the goalie, Brodeur is entitled to any space he wishes to occupy which isn’t already taken by a skater. Jokinen does not have a right to come in at the last second and co-occupy that space, for any reason, unless the contact is incidental and he’s making a reasonable effort to avoid it. It doesn’t matter if both he and Brodeur are skating on the same trajectory; the onus is on Jokinen to avoid contact if possible. That clearly wasn’t the case here. It should have been called, but it wasn’t, which I’m totally OK with as a Canes fan.

 

[MinJaBen]

Per the above: provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact.

It was reasonable for him to make no effort given he had yet to grow eyes in the back of his head and the goalie had moved a full body length outside of the crease.

 

[enviSAGE]

I think it's more that Marty was the one with the field of vision to look and see Juice, and he chose to skate into him anyway. Whereas Juice had no way to see Marty moving out and was skating in no man's land ice-wise so Marty had no can't-touch-the-goalie protection.

But I think Nugent-Hopkins+1st for Skinner+Faulk+Rask or Athanasiou+Glendening+1st for Faulk+Skinner are good trades to make

 

[MinJaBen]

But I think Nugent-Hopkins+1st for Skinner+Faulk+Rask or Athanasiou+Glendening+1st for Faulk+Skinner are good trades to make

I like the first one, but no way the Oilers have the cap room for that. I am less sold on the second, but it wouldn't happen anyway as Detroit is not likely to give up their first given they could end up with a lottery pick with high odds of 1st overall.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Kudos for your dedication here thh. I usually give up after 1.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It was reasonable for him to make no effort given he had yet to grow eyes in the back of his head and the goalie had moved a full body length outside of the crease.

I think it's more that Marty was the one with the field of vision to look and see Juice, and he chose to skate into him anyway. Whereas Juice had no way to see Marty moving out and was skating in no man's land ice-wise so Marty had no can't-touch-the-goalie protection.

Neither of these describe how the rule is written or applied. Skaters don’t get free rein to bump a goalie as long as they’re both arriving at a point simultaneously. They’re required to actively avoid contact, which Juice obviously didn’t there.

 

[DaveG]

I like the first one, but no way the Oilers have the cap room for that. I am less sold on the second, but it wouldn't happen anyway as Detroit is not likely to give up their first given they could end up with a lottery pick with high odds of 1st overall.

Yep, I think both sides would be a solid "no" on the 2nd one. AA and Glendening nowhere near replace Faulk and Skinner, and no way Detroit's going to even think about giving up a 1st when they're a very likely bottom 5 team in the league even with Faulk and Skinner.

First one I can't see happening, Oilers won't want Rask and I don't think adding him would be required in a deal around RNH+1st and Skinner+Faulk

 

[MinJaBen]

Skaters don’t get free rein to bump a goalie as long as they’re both arriving at a point simultaneously. They’re required to actively avoid contact, which Juice obviously didn’t there.

As you pointed out previously, this is not true. They are required to make a reasonable effort to do so. It certainly can be argued that there was nothing reasonable Jussie could do, thus doing nothing would have been reasonable. Which is what he did. If he had been backing up much closer to the crease, or if he had been coming in facing the goalie, then yes, that would have been a penalty. But given he was backing up, well away from the crease, his inaction was a reasonable action, hence no penalty.

 

[tarheelhockey]

As you pointed out previously, this is not true. They are required to make a reasonable effort to do so. It certainly can be argued that there was nothing reasonable Jussie could do, thus doing nothing would have been reasonable. Which is what he did. If he had been backing up much closer to the crease, or if he had been coming in facing the goalie, then yes, that would have been a penalty. But given he was backing up, well away from the crease, his inaction was a reasonable action, hence no penalty.

So he made a reasonable effort by not making any effort.

 

[MinJaBen]

So he made a reasonable effort by not making any effort.

Exactly. It was reasonable in that circumstance to make no effort.

 

[enviSAGE]

Skinner+Faulk for Anders Lee

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I thought we were discussing trades

I thought we were discussing drinking?

 

[HisIceness]

Season can't get here fast enough.

We need a summer league like the NBA to go along with the prospects tournament. That way the athletes can be even more tired when October comes.

 

[vorbis]

I have reviewed all arguments contained in the rule discussion in this thread, and it is my unassailable and final judgment that all Canes players did no wrong, Brodeur is a sleazebag flop artist, and Säbers suck

 

[DaveG]

Skinner+Faulk for Anders Lee

Impending UFA. More like Faulk straight across for Lee and Skinner for best offer we can get for him.

 

[ONO94]

So he made a reasonable effort by not making any effort.

I think the rule you should be looking at isn't goaltender interference--Rule 56--which Brodeur clearly is guilty of....

Minor Penalty - A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who interferes with or impedes the progress of an opponent who is not in possession of the puck.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jussi was skating in a predictable path and Marty intentionally made contact to impede his progress...seems clear to me.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think the rule you should be looking at isn't goaltender interference--Rule 56--which Brodeur clearly is guilty of....

Minor Penalty - A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who interferes with or impedes the progress of an opponent who is not in possession of the puck.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jussi was skating in a predictable path and Marty intentionally made contact to impede his progress...seems clear to me.

No penalty was called on Brodeur, so that wasn’t the call in play.

The call was made on the basis that Jokinen and Brodeur have equal rights to occupy that patch of ice, which is not the case.

 

[Lempo]

Exactly. It was reasonable in that circumstance to make no effort.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I thought we were discussing drinking?

This Brodeur/Jokinen thing is driving me to drink, I’ll tell you that.

 

[Lempo]

I have reviewed all arguments contained in the rule discussion in this thread, and it is my unassailable and final judgment that all Canes players did no wrong, Brodeur is a sleazebag flop artist, and Säbers suck

Technically this leaves a door open that some Canes players might've...

 

[Lempo]

This Brodeur/Jokinen thing is driving me to drink, I’ll tell you that.

Boudoir Jokinen sounds like a pretentious Finnish wine.

 

[Tryamw]

Yeah how can we conclude they've done no wrong? We haven't been to the Playoffs in 9 years there has to have been something they did wrong. Like not winning the last game of the #$@# season!!

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Boudoir Jokinen sounds like a pretentious Finnish wine.

Maybe Ward and Gleason are planning on opening a vineyard in Europe.

Your post just made me look up Finnish wine habits though, since I didn’t really think there was a suitable climate for growing grapes up there. Some interesting stuff.

Wine Wednesday: Finnish Wine - Luxe Adventure Traveler

 

[Lempo]

Maybe Ward and Gleason are planning on opening a vineyard in Europe.

Your post just made me look up Finnish wine habits though, since I didn’t really think there was a suitable climate for growing grapes up there. Some interesting stuff.

Wine Wednesday: Finnish Wine - Luxe Adventure Traveler

The important thing to know is that you don't get Jokinen in box.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Can I express a very tepid and mealy mouth approval of Jokinen bumping into Broduer? Because I wouldn't want to hurt any feelings or anything...