The Official Horrible Trade Proposals Thread: Part 3, Still Drinking...

[MinJaBen]

Also, the longer this drags out the less likely it is that Toronto gets a full return on Nylander's value. HFBoards is regularly shocked at trade values for players who have "complications" going on around them.

The Leafs are cruising for now, but if they start losing games on account of a shallow defensive group then things will start getting tense for Dubas. Under those conditions, even if Pesce is the "fair hockey value" equivalent to a Nylander, it might be that Faulk could get the deal done.

If Faulk can get it done, I'd pay his airfare to Toronto.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's not absolute depth that is the problem, its proven depth. Plus, Fox is not guaranteed to sign with us despite opportunity and financial interest to do so...see any other NCAA player who went to free agency. So let's say we do move Pesce. And Faulk wants to go to Minnesota. And Fox wants New York. Then in three years we have Hamilton asking for $9M a season and TvR and McKeown as our top three. Or TvR, McKeown, Martin if we don't want to spend the money Hamilton wants.

Yeeesh.

That just seems like an extraordinarily unlikely set of circumstances and not something I would use as the barometer for team-building. If those kinds of outcomes are the concern then we become Ron Francis stockpiling draft picks.

 

[Svechhammer]

I mean Toronto would be trading from a horrible leverage standpoint. They effectively need to get rid of Nylander. He's not playing, they're not close on a contract, and if they go to where he wants, they enter absolute Cap Hell right at a time when they're supposed to be ramping up for numerous runs.

We, on the other hand, would come in with tremendous leverage. We don't need to trade Pesce. Hell, we don't want to trade Pesce. We'll gladly deal with the Nylander situation for you, but you're not getting our coveted assets for it. Faulk probably is the best they could get for him, if we're purely talking about a Tor/Canes trade.

But that being said, I'm totally looking forward to "Nylander skating circles around Pesce to prove how much better he is when they play this year"

 

[MinJaBen]

That just seems like an extraordinarily unlikely set of circumstances and not something I would use as the barometer for team-building. If those kinds of outcomes are the concern then we become Ron Francis stockpiling draft picks.

No, I don't think if you don't move Pesce for Nylander that means we are turtling like Ron did. Moving Hamilton for Nylander after moving Hanifin and Lindy for Hamilton plus Ferland plus Fox doesn't seem like sitting on one's hands to me. It is just good spacing of the contracts and rebalancing the costs of the 12 forwards vs. 6 defenders to be more in line with what a team that plays in a non-hockey market and hasn't been to the playoffs in 9 years should be doing.

 

[Unsustainable]

Nylander is wanting 8 and long term.

7x8 would cost us 1st, 2nd, 3rd

What would Pesce get for a strait picks for player trade? Or Faulk?

Faulk +Buff 2nd might be close to value for Nylander.

 

[MinJaBen]

7x8 would cost us 1st, 2nd, 3rd

Nope, that would cost us four 1sts. All offer sheet compensation is calculated on the shorter of the contract length or 5 years. So a $56M contract divided by 5 is $11M per, so four 1sts. No thanks.

 

[Unsustainable]

Nope, that would cost us four 1sts. All offer sheet compensation is calculated on the shorter of the contract length or 5 years. So a $56M contract divided by 5 is $11M per, so four 1sts. No thanks.

Oh, I thought it was aav of 8.

 

[geehaad]

Faulk +Buff 2nd might be close to value for Nylander.

I'm not very with-it on this trade value stuff, but even I know this is silly-talk.

 

[tarheelhockey]

No, I don't think if you don't move Pesce for Nylander that means we are turtling like Ron did. Moving Hamilton for Nylander after moving Hanifin and Lindy for Hamilton plus Ferland plus Fox doesn't seem like sitting on one's hands to me. It is just good spacing of the contracts and rebalancing the costs of the 12 forwards vs. 6 defenders to be more in line with what a team that plays in a non-hockey market and hasn't been to the playoffs in 9 years should be doing.

I mean in terms of being hesitant to trade Pesce because "what if Hamilton wants $9M and Faulk wants out and Fox refuses to sign and now we've got TVR as our top guy and oh god it looks like an AHL lineup!?". If we get caught up in that kind of risk analysis we'll never make a move. There's always a chance that your top players won't sign or that you lose a guy to UFA, so you do everything you can to prevent that kind of outcome before it becomes a problem. But at some point, we do have to take a risk and let the cards fall where they may.

One thing I think Francis did do that was very smart was jump on TT when he was available for peanuts. He saw a distressed asset and moved on it. That's how a team can get ahead of the draft-and-wait curve. Nylander is another situation where we can move forward while the rest of the pack stays still. It's not going to be a painless move, but we are in an almost unique position of being able to give Toronto something genuinely valuable in their area of need (whether that means Pesce or preferably Faulk) without taking a major step backward. These opportunities are rare and it's even more painful to miss out on them than it is to lose a guy we like.

 

[FreshSeabass]

 

[GoldiFox]

I’d imagine that NJ and NYR would be two other teams highly interested in Nylander. Don’t see where Tampa has the Cap $ but they are always a player (maybe less so with Yzerman gone).

Scouts possibly there to look at other pieces in a bigger deal or possibly a Nylander signing makes another piece available.

Canes don’t play either team until Nov 21 vs Leafs.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Everyone would be shocked if Carolina pulled off a deal with the leafs.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Myabe if a deal does go down there will be more players involved and thats why they are scouting or maybe teams are gonna try to make a play on Kap.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Well, who would pass up tickets to a Pens/Leafs game?

Occams Razor FTW

 

[DaveG]

Gotta be looking at Kap. None of these teams play either the Pens or Leafs in the next week or so. Pens and Bolts are going on western conference road trips and the Leafs nor Pens appear on either the Rangers or Devils schedules for the next couple weeks.

 

[GoldiFox]

My dream scenario: Leafs give in to Nylander’s desire to play Center. Kadri for Faulk++.

Kadri ticks more boxes than Nylander for me.

 

[MinJaBen]

My dream scenario: Leafs give in to Nylander’s desire to play Center. Kadri for Faulk++.

Kadri ticks more boxes than Nylander for me.

I think Kadri would be great, but I’d like less pluses attached to the Faulk side of the equation.

 

[Lempo]

 

[Lempo]

My dream scenario: Leafs give in to Nylander’s desire to play Center. Kadri for Faulk++.

Kadri ticks more boxes than Nylander for me.

+1 on your Kadri for Faulk+

 

[SlavinAway]

Pesce and Faulk for Nylander and Gardiner.

Then someone suggests you need to take out Gardiner and you might have a deal...

 

[geehaad]

Kadri for Faulk++

I realize you said "dream", but I've heard that the Leafs don't need a Faulk type, they need a Pesce type.

 

[Dishface]

Y'all are all wrong, we are obviously scouting Cullen.

 

[Unsustainable]

Brassard for future considerations

Rask comes back to Pitt for futures considerations.

 

[Bub]

McElhinney want return a Toronto.

 

[DougieSmash]

Nylander in our division would hurt, especially if he goes to Devils. They draft Hischier, make that Hall trade, acquire Palmieri for nothing, take Vatanen/Johansson.