The Official 2021 Baseball Hall of Fame thread with poll (no one elected)

Who Should Get in the 2021 Baseball Hall of Fame?

  • Curt Schilling

    Votes: 24 75.0%
  • Roger Clemens

    Votes: 21 65.6%
  • Barry Bonds

    Votes: 22 68.8%
  • Omar Vizquel

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • Scott Rolen

    Votes: 15 46.9%
  • Billy Wagner

    Votes: 8 25.0%
  • Gary Sheffield

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • Todd Helton

    Votes: 8 25.0%
  • Manny Ramirez

    Votes: 12 37.5%
  • Jeff Kent

    Votes: 6 18.8%
  • Andruw Jones

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • Aramis Ramirez

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Total voters
    32

Say Hey Kid

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1y Curt Schilling9th70.0%171462079.548.664.161.640277339117029125.151.178.171.348-92161463.461271.137569436223261.029983477113116*1/H
2y Roger Clemens9th61.0%3327324139.265.9102.661.695179531012013.173.236.207.443173541843.121431.17370970704916.2418536315804672*1
3y Barry Bonds9th60.7%3407722162.872.7117.753.6298698472227293576219965142558.298.444.6071.051182*78HD/9
4y Omar Vizquel4th52.6%120422445.626.836.255.329681058614452877809514041028.272.336.352.68882*65H4/D379
5y Scott Rolen4th35.3%99401770.143.656.955.720387398121120773161287118899.281.364.490.855122*5/H
6y Billy Wagner6th31.7%107241627.719.823.732.681020120101.100.143.100.243-3547402.311870.9988530422903.0601823001196*1
7y Gary Sheffield7th30.5%158612260.538.049.357.2257692171636268950916762531475.292.393.514.907140*9*7*5*D6H/3
8y Todd Helton3rd29.2%175591761.846.654.254.822477962140125193691406371335.316.414.539.953133*3H/7D9
9y Manny Ramirez5th28.2%226691969.339.954.653.623028244154425745551831381329.312.411.585.996154*7*9*DH
10y Jeff Kent8th27.5%123511755.435.845.657.02298849813202461377151894801.290.356.500.855123*453H/D6
11y Andruw Jones4th19.4%109341762.746.454.658.021967599120419334341289152891.254.337.486.823111*89H7D/3
12Aramis Ramirez1st85
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
You can vote for 10. I'll take Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling.
 
Last edited:

Mrfenn92

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Clemens, bonds, Sosa, McGwire and palmeiro. Flintstone vitamins, B-12 shots, andro, flax seed oil, cream and clear and a wife busted for performance enhancing drugs. Get those fellas in.
 

Cas

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I'd probably vote for:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Todd Helton
Andruw Jones
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa

Ramirez fits comfortably in the middle of a group of offense-first left fielders like Ralph Kiner, Jesse Burkett, Goose Goslin, Joe Medwick, and Billy Williams. They're not among the ten greatest left fielders of all time, but they are among the twenty greatest. The only non-Hall of Fame left fielders in Ramirez' vicinity are Bonds, Joe Jackson, Pete Rose (I had to put him somewhere), Charlie Keller, and Sherry Magee, and three of those would already be there if not for other reasons (Keller suffers due to the war breaking up his career, and Magee is well below Ramirez anyway).

I have Rolen as the tenth greatest third baseman of all time (between Chipper Jones and Brooks Robinson), and third base is underrepresented in the Hall of Fame.

Schilling is a real ******* but he was also an excellent pitcher (very strong peak - high quality, with an ERA that actually underrates his quality because he gave up very few unearned runs, and tons of innings relative to his era). I can't say I've been sad to see him wait and I'd probably have left him off my ballot last year to vote for more marginal candidates who needed the help to stay on the ballot (like Abreu, who in retrospect falls short, although I've touted his case before).

Sosa benefits from a very, very good peak, boosting him compared to Sheffield (terrible, terrible fielder throughout his entire career) or Abreu.

I could probably find thirty shortstops I'd vote for ahead of Omar Vizquel. I think he'd be the worst shortstop in the Hall of Fame, by a sizable margin.
 

Perennial

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I think people forget just how good Sheffield was during his prime

He often missed a month or more each season due to injury, but here are his 162 game averages from '92 - '05:

109 runs, 30 doubles, 37 HR, 115 RBI, 15 SB, .304 AVG, .411 OBP, .962 OPS
 
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Perennial

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I'd probably vote for:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Todd Helton
Andruw Jones
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa

Sosa benefits from a very, very good peak, boosting him compared to Sheffield (terrible, terrible fielder throughout his entire career) or Abreu.

Sosa's 2001 season was unreal where he posted a 9.7 oWar, however, his next best 4 oWar seasons were: 6.7, 6.4, 6.3, 5.0
That's an oWar of 34.1 in 787 games

Sheffield's best 5 oWar seasons were: 7.7, 7.1, 7.0, 6.5, 6.0
That's an oWar of 34.3 in 746 games
 

Cas

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Sosa's 2001 season was unreal where he posted a 9.7 oWar, however, his next best 4 oWar seasons were: 6.7, 6.4, 6.3, 5.0
That's an oWar of 34.1 in 787 games

Sheffield's best 5 oWar seasons were: 7.7, 7.1, 7.0, 6.5, 6.0
That's an oWar of 34.3 in 746 games

Sheffield was a better hitter than Sosa - it's just that he was awful defensively. Sosa was outright excellent defensively in his twenties and never really descended to awful (below average, sure).

I actually wanted to sign Sheffield (or Vlad Guerrero) after 2003 to hit behind Bonds, which was affordable. Instead, we got Michael Tucker and Jeffrey Hammonds.
 

Terry Yake

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Aug 5, 2013
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I'd probably vote for:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Todd Helton
Andruw Jones
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa

Ramirez fits comfortably in the middle of a group of offense-first left fielders like Ralph Kiner, Jesse Burkett, Goose Goslin, Joe Medwick, and Billy Williams. They're not among the ten greatest left fielders of all time, but they are among the twenty greatest. The only non-Hall of Fame left fielders in Ramirez' vicinity are Bonds, Joe Jackson, Pete Rose (I had to put him somewhere), Charlie Keller, and Sherry Magee, and three of those would already be there if not for other reasons (Keller suffers due to the war breaking up his career, and Magee is well below Ramirez anyway).

I have Rolen as the tenth greatest third baseman of all time (between Chipper Jones and Brooks Robinson), and third base is underrepresented in the Hall of Fame.

Schilling is a real ******* but he was also an excellent pitcher (very strong peak - high quality, with an ERA that actually underrates his quality because he gave up very few unearned runs, and tons of innings relative to his era). I can't say I've been sad to see him wait and I'd probably have left him off my ballot last year to vote for more marginal candidates who needed the help to stay on the ballot (like Abreu, who in retrospect falls short, although I've touted his case before).

Sosa benefits from a very, very good peak, boosting him compared to Sheffield (terrible, terrible fielder throughout his entire career) or Abreu.

I could probably find thirty shortstops I'd vote for ahead of Omar Vizquel. I think he'd be the worst shortstop in the Hall of Fame, by a sizable margin.
if jim edmonds fell off the ballot after one year, i don't see how andruw jones deserves to get in
 

Cas

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if jim edmonds fell off the ballot after one year, i don't see how andruw jones deserves to get in

I don't think Jim Edmonds getting screwed is reasonable justification to refuse to vote for Andruw Jones, any more than I feel that way about Kenny Lofton (to name another deserving center fielder from the same era) or a whole host of other players.

I do also rank Jones ahead of Edmonds (Lofton is ahead of both, along with Alejandro Oms - Beltran and Reggie Smith are between Jones and Edmonds), but not by a significant margin. Either way, I think both deserve induction.
 

Terry Yake

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I don't think Jim Edmonds getting screwed is reasonable justification to refuse to vote for Andruw Jones, any more than I feel that way about Kenny Lofton (to name another deserving center fielder from the same era) or a whole host of other players.

I do also rank Jones ahead of Edmonds (Lofton is ahead of both, along with Alejandro Oms - Beltran and Reggie Smith are between Jones and Edmonds), but not by a significant margin. Either way, I think both deserve induction.
edmonds has a higher OPS, OPS+, SLG, BA, and OBP than jones and lofton

so if edmonds isn't HOF worthy, i don't see how jones is
 
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Cas

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edmonds has a higher OPS, OPS+, SLG, BA, and OBP than jones and lofton

so if edmonds isn't HOF worthy, i don't see how jones is

I do think Edmonds is worthy, I just happen to think, at this time, that Jones is a little bit worthier. I'd vote for both if they were both on the ballot.

The primary difference is defense. Edmonds was good (+37 runs), Jones was legendary (+235 runs). That gap makes up for a lot of offense. Jones also adds about 20 runs on the basepaths.
 

ChiTownPhilly

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I could probably find thirty shortstops I'd vote for ahead of Omar Vizquel. I think he'd be the worst shortstop in the Hall of Fame, by a sizable margin.
I have as much appetite for inducting Omar Vizquel as you do (none)- but he would have some fearsome competition in the mix for worst Shortstop induction-- Joe Tinker, Beauty Bancroft, Hugh Jennings, Rabbit Maranville, Travesty Jackson...
 

Cas

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I have as much appetite for inducting Omar Vizquel as you do (none)- but he would have some fearsome competition in the mix for worst Shortstop induction-- Joe Tinker, Beauty Bancroft, Hugh Jennings, Rabbit Maranville, Travesty Jackson...

Hughie Jennings doesn't really belong in that company - he had a tremendous peak, with a 148 OPS+ between 1895 and 1898 (in a league that was not clearly worse and was perhaps stronger than those a decade later). He was generally regarded as a strong defensive shortstop and what limited numbers we have (F% and RF compared to league averages) agree, though because he was also playing on an excellent team we might have to consider that he was aided more defensively than he would have elsewhere. Outside of those four seasons, 1894, and a half-season in 1899, he doesn't have much, at least as a player, but those were four tremendous years. It's worth noting that the Hall of Merit saw fit to elect Jennings, and Bill James ranked him 18th among major league shortstops in 1999.

He did manage the Tigers to three straight pennants and a few more pennant races, managing more than 2200 games. I'm a proponent of a "whole career" system when evaluating Hall of Fame candidates, because we induct people, not careers. Jennings should be considered in that light, as a successful manager and a successful player who had a short, but for a decent period of time very good, playing career.

I'd honestly rather have all of the other shortstops you mention before Vizquel, too. Not Hall of Famers, but probably all better than Vizquel.
 

Blackhawkswincup

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Bonds, Clemens and Schilling

If Bonds and Clemens don’t make the HOF then Cooperstown isn’t a legitimate baseball HOF lol

Schilling not getting in would be bigger travesty

At least with Bonds/Clemens they cheated so there is at least some reason to argue they should not be in HOF

If Rose and Jackson aren't in because "Cheating is greatest sin" then Bonds/Clemens don't belong either
 

Cas

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Schilling not getting in would be bigger travesty

At least with Bonds/Clemens they cheated so there is at least some reason to argue they should not be in HOF

If Rose and Jackson aren't in because "Cheating is greatest sin" then Bonds/Clemens don't belong either

Rose and Jackson aren't barred from the Hall of Fame because they cheated, they're barred because they broke the only rule guaranteed to result in a permanent ban - betting on baseball games. Jackson helped throw an entire World Series. Bit of a difference there.
 

Blackhawkswincup

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I am iffy on closers going in HOF. There are few so far worthy of honor and they are in already

If Wagner gets in that opens door for Fransisco Rodriguez , Joe Nathan , Troy Percival and others who frankly are not HOF worthy

I dont consider any of those guys HOF talents

Wagner also was horrendous postseason performer
 

Perennial

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I wonder why there's not more support for Helton...

Yeah, there's the Coors effect, but he still posted some of the best stats of his era!

Definitely should've won the 2000 MVP award which instead went to Jeff Kent for some reason

Helton's 2000 season he lead the league in the following categories...

Hits (216)
Doubles (59)
RBI (147)
Average (.372)
OBP (.463)
OPS (1.162)
Total bases (405)

He also had 138 runs, and 42 HR


From '98 - 2011, here are his averages per 162 games...

111 runs, 192 hits, 47 doubles, 30 HR, 109 RBI, .329 AVG, .428 OBP, .996 OPS
 
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Terry Yake

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I am iffy on closers going in HOF. There are few so far worthy of honor and they are in already

If Wagner gets in that opens door for Fransisco Rodriguez , Joe Nathan , Troy Percival and others who frankly are not HOF worthy

I dont consider any of those guys HOF talents

Wagner also was horrendous postseason performer
rivera and eckersley are the only closers who actually deserve to be in the HOF
 
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The Head Crusher

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Rose and Jackson aren't barred from the Hall of Fame because they cheated, they're barred because they broke the only rule guaranteed to result in a permanent ban - betting on baseball games. Jackson helped throw an entire World Series. Bit of a difference there.

Even though he had the best stats from both the teams in that series.

12/32 including 3 doubles, 1hr and 6rbi And 5 runs. His fielding percentage was also a 1.000. Yes he took the money,he admitted to that. But did he really throw the series?
 

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