News Article: The Nylander Saga.

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I couldn't care less about any individual player on the Leafs if they're struggling to make the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round.

It's about the logo on the front, not the name on the back.

 

[Menzinger]

 

[ToneDog]

Sell high ???

 

[Menzinger]

Sell high ???

Or keep a very good player

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Sell high ???

A cap strapped team shouldn't be trading one of their better bang for your buck players (who is a first line caliber winger). I guess if it's a crazy package you just can't refuse then sure. Otherwise, keep him.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

Nylander will always have the natural talent to put up goals and points.
Would like to see him work towards becoming a true complete 200 foot player. He's got all the tools to do so, he just looks uninterested in some aspects of the game. Especially getting better at winning puck battles, he looks very strong in his legs/core, I'm certain he could do better if he wanted to.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Nylander has a great year. He exceeded expectations.

He scored some key goals.

Without him this season would have been a huge regress.

Marner / Tavares was a huge fall from Grace.

 

[Trapper]

Or keep a very good player

Or you know you trade a good player from where you are strong to get a good player for where you are weak.
That way if Muzzin/Rielly get hurt, or your goalie struggles (no goalie is going .930 through the playoffs), you aren’t pooched.

You are allowed to do that. It’s why if you draft excess of forwards, you can trade for other necessities.

 

[Menzinger]

Or you know you trade a good player from where you are strong to get a good player for where you are weak.
That way if Muzzin/Rielly get hurt, or your goalie struggles (no goalie is going .930 through the playoffs), you aren’t pooched.

You are allowed to do that. It’s why if you draft excess of forwards, you can trade for other necessities.

Your allowed to do it and should consider it if the opportunity comes along

The problem is young top pairing rhd are rarely if ever on the trade market.

You can't squeeze a water from stone no matter how much you'll be willing to try

 

[Trapper]

Your allowed to do it and should consider it if the opportunity comes along

The problem is young top pairing rhd are rarely if ever on the trade market.

You can't squeeze a water from stone no matter how much you'll be willing to try

Everyone wants the instant gratification trade.
It’s unlikely you get a Seth Jones.
But that doesn’t mean you don’t get a solid D and another solid player that makes the overall team better.
But unless people can clearly see how they instantly win the trade, forget it.
Eventually if you keep losing, people are afraid you deal and might not win.
There are many forms to improving and that’s what separates the GMs. The deal made your “team” better.

 

[Menzinger]

Everyone wants the instant gratification trade.
It’s unlikely you get a Seth Jones.
But that doesn’t mean you don’t get a solid D and another solid player that makes the overall team better.
But unless people can clearly see how they instantly win the trade, forget it.
Eventually if you keep losing, people are afraid you deal and might not win.
There are many forms to improving and that’s what separates the GMs. The deal made your “team” better.

I guess we just see things here from fundamentally different viewpoints

Imo I dont think moving good players for lesser ones improves the team, even if it's for a position of need when you still have other options available.

If the team wants to undergo radical change and move out a core piece, it 100% needs fo be for a homerun of a win in terms of outcome

 

[Maplebeasts]

If you're talking about Marner then sure. Especially if it means signing Pietrangelo. Nylander though, not a chance. He has the best contract of the big 4.

Sell high ???

 

[Drew311]

He really took a big stride this season with a new willingness to be around the net. That directly correlated to the increase in production. Not sure what changed for him in the playoffs because I didn’t see any of that. So many times I saw him not even attempt to get the puck along the boards if he had to take a hit or battle. I really hope this part of his game changes, because if it does he will be elite.

 

[Bust]

Nylander has a great year. He exceeded expectations.

He scored some key goals.

Without him this season would have been a huge regress.

Marner / Tavares was a huge fall from Grace.

I think the major talking point here is expectations. The 18-19 season specifically, with the team just adding Tavares, there was major buzz around the offence and the top
6. We as a fanbase had moderate expectations of Marner but we also were excited to see him play on an upgraded line and away from perceived defensive liabilities (bozak, JVR). Between the Nylander holdout taking the spotlight off of marner, as well as JT stepping in and playing lights out - it was the perfect recipe for success for a young kid to play well and Marner delivered.

the script was essentially flipped this year - marner contract dispute and a coach who wore out his welcome took the pressure off of Nylander who didn’t have the bar set too high anyway, from the 1/2 season prior. Nylander also delivered and had his best season yet, just as marner the year prior.

I guess the point I’m trying to make here is, let’s try and temper expectations when talking about these kids, specifically deep playoff runs on the backs of these players. I’m not saying that they can do no wrong, or that they are worth absolutely every penny of their contracts, but they are still young and learning how to be professionals. Unfortunately our kids didn’t have a plethora of good, skilled vets to look up too and I’m sure some of the growing pains we’ve noticed are directly related to that fact.

I understand fans will take offence to the point I made in regards to not expecting these guys to carry us to the promise land. I truly think these guys can win a cup for us, Willy, marner, Matthews and JT included. But one look at the cup final matchup and you will notice why we can’t hang. It’s not the top end guys as they can play with the best of them. It’s the depth. It’s the heart. It’s the veteran leadership. All being quality traits of a top team, all being traits that we cannot use to describe this version of the Toronto maple leafs.

 

[Havoc]

After watching these playoffs, Nylander is even more of a keeper.

Look how many games are being won just by competent D getting the puck to the net.


Nylander is the best on the team and one of the best in the league at skating the puck in, settling things down and finding the open man.

The only problem is it's all in vain. These scrub defenceman do nothing good with the puck.


Imagine Nylander and Heiskenen on the same team. It's a wrap.

 

[kb]

Everyone wants the instant gratification trade.
It’s unlikely you get a Seth Jones.
But that doesn’t mean you don’t get a solid D and another solid player that makes the overall team better.
But unless people can clearly see how they instantly win the trade, forget it.
Eventually if you keep losing, people are afraid you deal and might not win.
There are many forms to improving and that’s what separates the GMs. The deal made your “team” better.

You get a better team by losing trades?

Huh. Then we need to bring back Nonis.

 

[Trapper]

You get a better team by losing trades?

Huh. Then we need to bring back Nonis.

That's not what I'm saying which is exactly why people are stuck in can't improve as a team because you have to keep the exact same thing (change 2 D, change bottom 6) all through the Kessel years and up to now. Oh no, we can't trade player X because we won't have player X and might not get past the 1st round of the playoffs.

Nobody can fathom being a better team because you are harder to play against and better defensively by trading 1 winger to get a quality 20 minute D and another player that can perform in the top 6 differently from the way we are doing. Like if you find a deal where you got a younger Manson type D and a younger Rackell in return. It can change the dynamic. But people only see we traded player x for Owen Nolan because that's all they've ever seen. It must be what we are getting back. It must be Colton Orr we are getting if we trade Nylander. Has to be.

I'm also not saying you start there but you may acquire some players that makes paying 4 guys half the cap unfeasible and you have to move someone because of the now 6-7 guys that are key instead of 4.
You certainly don't have to start there but this team should be looking to get better defensively and harder to play against through 4 playoff rounds. And yes, that might cost a forward salary to have a team that relies on 8 guys instead of 4. 1 Marner is 2 Kadri's and a Pesce. Added to Matthews/JT/Nylander/Rielly/2 Kadri's/Pesce is more to depend on. It's not always about 1 80 point guys. 3 50 point guys, solid defense can make you a lot more difficult to play. It doesn't strip the core, it makes you have more to lean on and afford to add.

What is going on now isn't working. We are gearing up for another year to see if it works. If it fails, change will be needed.

It's funny people who like Dubas is because of a different way they say he does things. Yet people can't think differently and the team can't be better without keeping the exact same 4 as core.

 

[kb]

That's not what I'm saying which is exactly why people are stuck in can't improve as a team because you have to keep the exact same thing (change 2 D, change bottom 6) all through the Kessel years and up to now. Oh no, we can't trade player X because we won't have player X and might not get past the 1st round of the playoffs.

Nobody can fathom being a better team because you are harder to play against and better defensively by trading 1 winger to get a quality 20 minute D and another player that can perform in the top 6 differently from the way we are doing. Like if you find a deal where you got a younger Manson type D and a younger Rackell in return. It can change the dynamic. But people only see we traded player x for Owen Nolan because that's all they've ever seen. It must be what we are getting back. It must be Colton Orr we are getting if we trade Nylander. Has to be.

I'm also not saying you start there but you may acquire some players that makes paying 4 guys half the cap unfeasible and you have to move someone because of the now 6-7 guys that are key instead of 4.
You certainly don't have to start there but this team should be looking to get better defensively and harder to play against through 4 playoff rounds. And yes, that might cost a forward salary to have a team that relies on 8 guys instead of 4. 1 Marner is 2 Kadri's and a Pesce. Added to Matthews/JT/Nylander/Rielly/2 Kadri's/Pesce is more to depend on. It's not always about 1 80 point guys. 3 50 point guys, solid defense can make you a lot more difficult to play. It doesn't strip the core, it makes you have more to lean on and afford to add.

What is going on now isn't working. We are gearing up for another year to see if it works. If it fails, change will be needed.

It's funny people who like Dubas is because of a different way they say he does things. Yet people can't think differently and the team can't be better without keeping the exact same 4 as core.

I don't "like" Dubas per se. I just think the haters go way overboard to paint a shittier picture than reality. He's done some good, and some bad. I have always maintained that.

I agree with what you say. The mix is wrong. It HAS to change. But I don't think that selling low on a prime asset is a sustainable way to shape a team. I would move heaven and earth to fit in Pietrangelo, but that doesn't mean I am willing to take spare parts to accomplish it. I'm not talking Nylander for Colton Orr. I am just saying if he is traded, that creates another hole in the roster, and it will have to somehow be filled too.

Definitely not against trading either RW at this point.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I guess the point I’m trying to make here is, let’s try and temper expectations when talking about these kids, specifically deep playoff runs on the backs of these players. I’m not saying that they can do no wrong, or that they are worth absolutely every penny of their contracts, but they are still young and learning how to be professionals.

We are a win now team.

We are making moves at the deadline.

We are at the cap and this team is not rebuilding.

There is no real reason the team will do better next year.

The concern is Dubas handed out deals the players will never live up to. I wouldn't make a player sign a deal like that. Despite what the agent wanted. Nylander and Marner should have been bridged. With those two bridged we would have money for a D.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The mix is wrong. It HAS to change.

Dubas hasn't made one big trade yet.

And has been crushed in contract negotiations.

Maybe he's done fine otherwise.

The real rookie moves were:

(1) talking about Big 3 discounts.

(2) publicly going overboard about saying he wanted long term deals.

(3) when the negotiations were going poorly (overpay demands), he should have bridged the players or sat them. Overpaying RFAs wasn't necessary. Anything over Rantanen money is overpay by definition. (9.25 AAV)

 

[ToneDog]

We are a win now team.

We are making moves at the deadline.

We are at the cap and this team is not rebuilding.

There is no real reason the team will do better next year.

The concern is Dubas handed out deals the players will never live up to. I wouldn't make a player sign a deal like that. Despite what the agent wanted. Nylander and Marner should have been bridged. With those two bridged we would have money for a D.

They did virtually nothing at the deadline this year to help the team because Leaf management saw that this team did not have "it" after losing to Ayre. Instead they helped TB by pulling out of the Bogo sweepstakes and hung onto one of the worse dmen to wear a Leaf jersey. They probably should never hand jersey #94.

 

[kb]

Dubas hasn't made one big trade yet.

And has been crushed in contract negotiations.

Maybe he's done fine otherwise.

The real rookie moves were:

(1) talking about Big 3 discounts.

(2) publicly going overboard about saying he wanted long term deals.

(3) when the negotiations were going poorly (overpay demands), he should have bridged the players or sat them. Overpaying RFAs wasn't necessary. Anything over Rantanen money is overpay by definition. (9.25 AAV)

He's made big trades. Just not the core 4-5. Yet. Lou did nothing at all here trade wise in 3 years, nor did Nonis, and the last big trade was Kessel. So it's not Dubas, it's all GM's going back to Burke basically.

But this isn't the thread to be discussing Dubas' performance. There are any of the other bashing threads for that.

 

[Stamkos4life]

He's made big trades. Just not the core 4-5. Yet. Lou did nothing at all here trade wise in 3 years, nor did Nonis, and the last big trade was Kessel. So it's not Dubas, it's all GM's going back to Burke basically.

But this isn't the thread to be discussing Dubas' performance. There are any of the other bashing threads for that.

Did you honestly forget that lou traded phaneuf?

 

[Notsince67]

Dubas hasn't made one big trade yet.

And has been crushed in contract negotiations.

Maybe he's done fine otherwise.

The real rookie moves were:

(1) talking about Big 3 discounts.

(2) publicly going overboard about saying he wanted long term deals.

(3) when the negotiations were going poorly (overpay demands), he should have bridged the players or sat them. Overpaying RFAs wasn't necessary. Anything over Rantanen money is overpay by definition. (9.25 AAV)

Rantanen signed after

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Rantanen signed after

Dubas should have waited.

LIKE I SAID. and everyone knew.

It was obvious Dubas was going to overpay.

If Marner wanted to take the team to the cleaners, he should be traded for a Top line RD. And he should sit until that happens. He doesnt have the balls to sit out an entire year anyway.