The NHLPA CBA proposal....

[Seachd]

rollback stupid!!!! would you take a 24% cut. let's see if a players makes 5M/season for 3 years = that's 3.6M. nowhe's contract is worth 11.4M

Until that contract runs out. Combined with a very weak luxury tax, it's a perfect recipe for more skyrocketing salaries. That player is going to demand more - that's what a lot of people are ignoring. They're acting as if GMs giftwrap these contracts and hand-deliver them with giant smiles on their faces.

 

[Kid Canada]

This'll probably be a lot easier for them to turn down than you think, due mostly to a pretty weak luxury tax.

What luxery tax? That's a pittiful effort by the NHLPA on a luxery tax.

 

[MarkZackKarl]

ugh

Until that contract runs out. Combined with a very weak luxury tax, it's a perfect recipe for more skyrocketing salaries. That player is going to demand more - that's what a lot of people are ignoring. They're acting as if GMs giftwrap these contracts and hand-deliver them with giant smiles on their faces.

HuH??? the player can ONLY get what the market is willing to offer, and the market is the GMs. WHat power does the player have in determining his wage by forcing it upon an owner? he gets what the market is willing to bear, just like any other employee.

The GMs have full control over the salaries they give out, except for the NHLs minimum wage, which is to be expected, obviously.

BTW, to Jester who responded with the owners so called concessions, you DO realize that the players made several concessions to offset the owners ones in the 1995-04 CBA (mainly, a restrictive 31 year UFA) . What NEW concessions has the NHL made which has then made it worthy to ***** about how poor the concessions the NHLPA has made are?

I mean, where's the logic in whining about a players concessions (which are huge) when the owners have done nothing?

 

[Gee Wally]

This a GENERAL WARNING to all .

Discuss the issue.

Not each other.. No name calling...no offensive posting.

This will be the only warning given...

 

[shakes]

Yeah, besides decades of monster salaries compared to little revenue, an agent-friendly arbitration system and guarenteed contracts, the owners really haven't given the players anything, have they?

<JESTER>

Please, no one was holding a gun to their heads. As employees they deserved to be paid which is what the owners did... It's not a concession, it's called a salary.

 

[RLC]

The one time arbitration during a players career is stupid. Every owner will race to be the first to take every player to arbitration before the next owner get his chance.
OS if you take your player to arbitration and lose, then the player can never again be taken to arbitration !!!! If a player has a small contract and starts to score 50 goals per year he will demand a big raise every time not just once in his career and can never get a raise from any other owner ever !!!

I say, any owner can take any player to arbitration after 1/2 of his contract is over. Don't forget that the owner will have to prove that the player does not deserve the original rate.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

The problem is they'll take their 24% cut on this contract.. and then in 3 years when their contract is up they'll be asking for 5 million again.

Its nothing but a bandaid

I agree.
Less rollback. More luxury tax/revenue sharing.

However. Let's be honest. Pro-owner or pro-player, it's time to fire Bettman.
Under Bettman, the game's entertainment value has plummetted.
Perhaps it was to keep expansion teams from getting blown out 7-1 every night, but it's pretty clear that the league decided to blindfold officials for the past decade.
The hooking, holding, clutching and grabbing really killed the flow of the game.
Don't take my word for it. Ask any NHLer who played in the 80s and 90s.
They allowed goalies to blow up their equipment to michelin man proportions.

I could go on and on.

I hope that Bettman is fired and that the league returns to free-skating, hard-hitting style of the past.
To me, that is what will draw interest to the game. That is what will make the game marketable. That is what will draw fans to the game and to the telecasts. That is what will increase revenues from gates and television networks.

That is what will save the game. Far more than anything that could ever be negotiated in any CBA.

Kudos to Brendan SHanahan for not sitting on his arse and showing leadership while Bettman continues his mission to destroy the game.

 

[NJD Jester]

BTW, to Jester who responded with the owners so called concessions, you DO realize that the players made several concessions to offset the owners ones in the 1995-04 CBA (mainly, a restrictive 31 year UFA) . What NEW concessions has the NHL made which has then made it worthy to ***** about how poor the concessions the NHLPA has made are?

The players have to make the huge concessions in these negociations because the owners are the ones who have made the concessions in salaries, revenue share and practically every other thing we're arguing here.

Keep in mind that I feel this is all the owners' and agents' faults. But since the owners are a bunch of crackheads, and high-priced talent their crackrock, they need to put something in place to assure that they won't escalate salaries again in five years, and that hockey won't have its own Curt Flood who argues that--without a cap control in place--the owners are colluding to keep salaries below market value.

<JESTER>

 

[SPARTAKUS*]

The problem is they'll take their 24% cut on this contract.. and then in 3 years when their contract is up they'll be asking for 5 million again.

Its nothing but a bandaid

and what makes you think that with a hard cap they won't be askingfor 5 millions????

 

[MS]

The luxury tax clearly isn't enough to make the rollback stick. If the luxury tax was closer to the numbers that were rumoured (75% over $40 million), that would be enough IMO to keep salaries down.

That can be negotiated, however. This is a good framework and a good place to start. Concessions in every major area - luxury tax, rollback, arbitration, entry-level salaries.

 

[NJD Jester]

I agree.
However. Let's be honest. Pro-owner or pro-player, it's time to fire Bettman.

I've said it 100 times during this mess:

Why doesn't the media stop asking how hockey is going to fix this mess, and start asking how we got into this mess in the first place? And if you're going to start with the piss-poor revenues, then you have to start with the man in charge of selling the sport. And that's NBA boy.

<JESTER>

 

[Seachd]

HuH??? the player can ONLY get what the market is willing to offer, and the market is the GMs. WHat power does the player have in determining his wage by forcing it upon an owner? he gets what the market is willing to bear, just like any other employee.

Oh, I see. In that case, they might as well get rid of all player agents. I mean, they have no say in salary negociations apparently, so why even have them. Why hold out? Why demand more money? Is it all just pointless effort on the part of the player?

 

[Doc Hollywood]

Easy with the Luxury Tax. Yes it is weak and yes revisions will be made. This is a negotiation process that will take time. The NHLPA won't put all their eggs in one basket. You don't go and offer everything you have from the start. Modifications will be made and I am sure something will be worked out in the Luxury Tax Section to help ease the minds

 

[SPARTAKUS*]

what is the job of the gm???

 

[dem]

and what makes you think that with a hard cap they won't be askingfor 5 millions????

Because under a hard cap very few players will even be able to make 5 million?

For the record.. im not even sure if i am for hard cap. I'd be fine with a luxury tax as long as its in the 70%/~40 million area.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I've said it 100 times during this mess:

Why doesn't the media stop asking how hockey is going to fix this mess, and start asking how we got into this mess in the first place? And if you're going to start with the piss-poor revenues, then you have to start with the man in charge of selling the sport. And that's NBA boy.

<JESTER>

Funny, before the CBA became the huge issue it is today, I'd say that Bettman was loathed almost universally.
In some ways, I was hoping the players would concede nothing and the owners would cave. Why? It would force the owners to can Bettman.
If he wins too much at the bargainning table for his owners, we could be stuck with this moron for years.
I'm afraid to think of what hockey will be like in 10 years with Bettman in charge.

 

[Seachd]

what is the job of the gm???

I assume you're asking me (please use the quote button), but I'm not sure I understand. You really don't know what a GM's job is?

 

[Trottier]

The GMs have full control over the salaries they give out, except for the NHLs minimum wage, which is to be expected, obviously?

How that very basic point can be lost on anyone is astounding.

Nowhere is anyone yet to provide evidence of an owner EVER having a gun held to his head with regard to a player's contract.

As has been done with significant frequency in recent years in MLB, an NHL owner can choose not to enter into arbitration with pre-UFA players. That is, walk away from the player if he considers him to be overpriced. (Likewise, many NBA clubs have walked away from the 4th year club option on many of their younger players, making them too free agents.)

It's called: Discipline.

 

[Doc Hollywood]

Because under a hard cap very few players will even be able to make 5 million?

For the record.. im not even sure if i am for hard cap. I'd be fine with a luxury tax as long as its in the 70%/~40 million area.

Not really. The Hard cap will depend on what Revenue the League brings in. You have to factor ticket sales, merchandise sales as well as tv broadcasts. The Salary Cap could flucuate from year to year depending on Revenue.

 

[Seachd]

It's called: Discipline.

It's also called competition, with asses on the line. Of course GMs are going to do what they can to improve their team.

"Hey, we've been in the basement for 10 years, but look at all the money we've saved. Unfortunately, we average 1500 fans a game."

 

[SPARTAKUS*]

I assume you're asking me (please use the quote button), but I'm not sure I understand. You really don't know what a GM's job is?

of course I do. the reason we are in this mess is because the gms didn't do a good job controling salaries. but with this proposal they have all the tools to be able to keep salaries at a reasonable level?

 

[Seachd]

of course I do. the reason we are in this mess is because the gms didn't do a good job controling salaries. but with this proposal they have all the tools to be able to keep salaries at a reasonable level?

No, because of a soft luxury tax. How will that prevent any of the big money teams from going on a spending spree, and re-raising all the salaries, comparables, etc. to beyond current levels?

 

[TehDoak]

How 'this' happened....

Simply put, the entire face of the NHL market changed with two deals:

#1. The Lindros trade and his contract following
#2. The Joe Sakic Offer sheet by the NYR.

These two deals set a new market precedent. Soon after the deal, Paul Karyia got a huge deal, and it snowballed from there. The NHLPA effective cancels the overall effect of both deals with a MASSIVE salary rollback.

Pretty much, it puts the ball in the owners court along with a penalty for going over a prescribed amount (which is not increasing) for responsible spending. Now, does this deal provide cost certainty? No it does not. However, its a great starting point.

 

[SPARTAKUS*]

No, because of a soft luxury tax. How will that prevent any of the big money teams from going on a spending spree, and re-raising all the salaries, comparables, etc. to beyond current levels?

because it doesn't work you can have a 100M payroll it doesn't garantee you'll make the playoffs. The Flyers, the Rangers, the Leafs have all big payrolls but no Stanley Cup. The beautiful thing about hockey is that it's truly a team sport. From now on gms will be a lot more caruful about how they spend their money.

 

[Seachd]

because it doesn't work you can have a 100M payroll it doesn't garantee you'll make the playoffs. The Flyers, the Rangers, the Leafs have all big payrolls but no Stanley Cup. The beautiful thing about hockey is that it's truly a team sport. From now on gms will be a lot more caruful about how they spend their money.

Of course it doesn't guarantee the playoffs. But not every other team is guaranteed to be a carbon copy of Carolina, Anaheim, or Calgary.