The NHL has a BIG problem (Cap Circumvention via LTIR)

[kingsholygrail]

LTIR contracts shouldn't be used like cash in trades. That's the only thing I have a problem with.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

According to cap friendly, 15 teams in the league right now are within 1M of the salary cap, but are also using LTIR space to create more cap space beyond that salary cap.



It's not just Toronto and Tampa doing this, hell Colorado made two trades in the last 2 days taking advantage of LTIR space.


It's an option for all teams, not really a problem. Teams that believe they can win a cup will take advantage of it when they can, teams that aren't will take advantage of those teams that have more space to be buyers by trading marginal players for draft picks.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

So it’s my understanding that Kucherov could be healthy to player earlier but that they are waiting for cap reasons.

If that's the case, the NHL will should require him to be taken off LTIR. This came about because of something circa 2007 where someone - can't remember who - had a player on LTIR who was healthy but the team couldn't activate him because of cap considerations, so they left him on LTIR (which was permissible at the time). The league sent out a memo in the offseason directing that players on IR - including LTIR - must be legitimately unable to play, and that any player fit to play must be removed from IR/LTIR regardless of cap considerations. If that required a team to undertake various transactions to be cap compliant to have the now-not-injured player on the roster, that's what it had to do.

That said, the NHL has been very deferential to teams on when players are still unable to play. I can only think of a (very) few times since '07 where the league asked for details, and in every case it took no further action.

 

[JoemAvs]

Of course its complete bs and needs to be fixed. But I am not sure there is much of an appetite for it.

IMO its pretty easy. Teams should have to be cap compliant in the playoffs. If you don't want to do that, atleast make it so that if a player hasn't featured during the regular season and spent his whole season on LTIR, he can only be activated if his team could fit him under the cap. If not he should have to stay on the list...

Tampa got 10m of extra capspace to keep all of their guys around and re-sign Sergachev and Cirelli just because they got Kucherov to delay his surgery enough that they can plausibly hold him out long enough to miss the shortened season completely (even though he probably is already healthy by now or will be way before the end) and still will have him available game 1 in the playoffs...
Definition of cap circumvention to me and something the league really should adress...

 

[Pens x]

All teams can use this "loop hole". TB is the 21st most valuable team according to Forbes with a 470 million dollar valuation.

I say good for Tampa. Other teams, including the team I root for, created BS self-imposed budgets for this season. I’m extremely jealous of Tampa’s ownership.

 

[AndreRoy]

Funny how nobody complained when Chicago beat us in the finals by doing the same thing with Kane. Even if this was circumvention (which it isn’t) the Lightning have most certainly earned the right to do it themselves.

 

[Machinehead]

But it has largely created parity

From 2010-2017, the NHL had the fewest champions in pro sports.

 

[Machinehead]

A rangers fan doesn't like the salary cap. Shocking.

Yeah I wanna go back to all the winning the Rangers did before the salary cap LMFAO

 

[Sky04]

So it’s my understanding that Kucherov could be healthy to player earlier but that they are waiting for cap reasons.

Your understanding is wrong.

 

[Mr Positive]

I bet it's a thing where Kucherov could play even now maybe, but it's not like a video game where a player is healed and then that's that.

It's often subjective and up to the player. And, maybe playing in regular season game isn't worth coming back early and reaggravating it to Kucherov, but it might for playoff games.

I was critical of Hossa for the equipment allergy thing but it is the same. It gave him discomfort to play at all, and the league couldn't force him to play through it, but for him it was worth it to tough it out in the playoffs.

 

[Spargon]

It's not like this is some unfair advantage only a few teams are allowed to use.

Any/all teams can use the cap this way and are on an even playing field. If the vast majority choose not to that is not the fault of the teams who do.

 

[Dache]

Simply put, Cap Circumvention via LTIR

Teams like Tampa Bay and Toronto are using LTIR to bolster their rosters for the playoffs.

Kucherov being out the entire season, giving the Lightning $10.5M in extra cap relief throughout the season. But as soon as the playoffs come around, he can be activated off LTIR without a hiccup and Tampa will be playing in the playoffs with a roster that could have a cap hit north of $95M.

Toronto acquired Riley Nash from Columbus and it won’t count for a cent on their cap since he’s on LTIR and won’t be activated until the playoffs where there is no salary cap.

The Salary cap was created to give smaller market teams a fighting chance against the larger spending, big markets of the NHL. But with this LTIR loophole, it allows teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay extra cap space since in the playoffs, there is no salary cap.


There is a simple solution to this problem, have a salary cap in the playoffs. it would completely negate this loophole.

Oh no! Toronto is going to get Riley Nash without using cap space!!! I’m just kidding, the Kucherov one is an actual issue. But teams doing that still need to make the playoffs without their best player so it’s a double edged sword.

 

[hatterson]

I 100% agree. The cap should remain in effect for the entire year. Why it dissapears for the playoffs is beyond me and makes no sense.

The cap isn’t some monolithic thing where you just add up the annual values of all your contracts on any given day and see if it’s less than $x, it’s a cumulative system. The reason a team with a million dollars in cap space can acquire a player with a four million salary at the deadline is because they’re only paying 1/4 of his 4 million salary.

Given that playoff games are not counted when calculating a players daily cap hit (since there’s no logical way to do it given half the league doesn’t make the playoffs), it’s fundamentally not possible to force teams to be “compliant” with the cap during the time of the year in which cap calculations cannot be actually made.

 

[DaBolts]

Simply put, Cap Circumvention via LTIR

Teams like Tampa Bay and Toronto are using LTIR to bolster their rosters for the playoffs.

Kucherov being out the entire season, giving the Lightning $10.5M in extra cap relief throughout the season. But as soon as the playoffs come around, he can be activated off LTIR without a hiccup and Tampa will be playing in the playoffs with a roster that could have a cap hit north of $95M.

Toronto acquired Riley Nash from Columbus and it won’t count for a cent on their cap since he’s on LTIR and won’t be activated until the playoffs where there is no salary cap.

The Salary cap was created to give smaller market teams a fighting chance against the larger spending, big markets of the NHL. But with this LTIR loophole, it allows teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay extra cap space since in the playoffs, there is no salary cap.


There is a simple solution to this problem, have a salary cap in the playoffs. it would completely negate this loophole.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Funny how nobody complained when Chicago beat us in the finals by doing the same thing with Kane. Even if this was circumvention (which it isn’t) the Lightning have most certainly earned the right to do it themselves.

The Lightning placed their player on LTIR in January. It only became a serious issue yesterday for some reason.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Your understanding is wrong.

If the priority was for him to be healthy ASAP, he would have had the surgery earlier than December 30th or whatever it was. It was a calculated gamble from the Lightning. It's not illegal and it's a smart thing to do but let's call a spade a spade, it wasn't a lucky coincidence.

 

[King'sPawn]

I actively encourage cap circumvention. The NHL's cap is stupid.

They sold you all on a parity narrative when the sole purpose of it was owners lining their pockets.

Fan of a wealthy team wants to get rid of a rule so they have a bigger advantage. Color me shocked.

 

[Machinehead]

Fan of a wealthy team wants to get rid of a rule so they have a bigger advantage. Color me shocked.

Sob story.

Every NHL owner is a billionaire.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The cap isn’t some monolithic thing where you just add up the annual values of all your contracts on any given day and see if it’s less than $x, it’s a cumulative system. The reason a team with a million dollars in cap space can acquire a player with a four million salary at the deadline is because they’re only paying 1/4 of his 4 million salary.

Given that playoff games are not counted when calculating a players daily cap hit (since there’s no logical way to do it given half the league doesn’t make the playoffs), it’s fundamentally not possible to force teams to be “compliant” with the cap during the time of the year in which cap calculations cannot be actually made.

No, but yes. During the season, you're correct - everyone counts daily, it's not "on every day, the sum of all the cap hits of players have to be under the Upper Limit."

During the playoffs, though? Nothing says the league can't come up with some way to decide cap compliance. It does something different for the offseason, so why not something specific to the playoffs? The league could say any / some combination / all of the following:

• the cap hits of the players on your playing roster for a game have to be under the Upper Limit.
• a player who starts the season on IR play at least one game by the end of the season to be eligible for the playoffs.
• a team must designate an Active Roster for each series like happens in MLB and that roster has to have a sum of cap hits under the Upper Limit, and if guys get hurt you can only add someone if you've got cap space available to fit them in.
• each team's Active Roster after transactions at the Trade Deadline are completed is your Active Roster for the playoffs; if the sum of cap hits for the Active Roster is over the Upper Limit, any changes to that roster must result in a reduction of that sum to bring you closer to the Upper Limit; once you're under, any further transactions must result in a sum of cap hits that's under the Upper Limit."

This requires (A) the owners to be interested in this - they're probably not - and (B) the players to be interested - they likely won't be. However, some of that would "fix" this "problem" that exists.

 

[King'sPawn]

Sob story.

Every NHL owner is a billionaire.

I look forward to Bobby Holik setting the market for 3rd liners again, and those billionaires decide to fold the team when they cost too much money to keep.

 

[Machinehead]

I look forward to Bobby Holik setting the market for 3rd liners again, and those billionaires decide to fold the team when they cost too much money to keep.

You are aware there are other leagues without hard caps, right? This doesn't happen

 

[Curufinwe]

Meh, it’s not a big deal.

 

[FelixPotvin29]

Simply put, Cap Circumvention via LTIR

Teams like Tampa Bay and Toronto are using LTIR to bolster their rosters for the playoffs.

Kucherov being out the entire season, giving the Lightning $10.5M in extra cap relief throughout the season. But as soon as the playoffs come around, he can be activated off LTIR without a hiccup and Tampa will be playing in the playoffs with a roster that could have a cap hit north of $95M.

Toronto acquired Riley Nash from Columbus and it won’t count for a cent on their cap since he’s on LTIR and won’t be activated until the playoffs where there is no salary cap.

The Salary cap was created to give smaller market teams a fighting chance against the larger spending, big markets of the NHL. But with this LTIR loophole, it allows teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay extra cap space since in the playoffs, there is no salary cap.


There is a simple solution to this problem, have a salary cap in the playoffs. it would completely negate this loophole.

you’re kind of ignoring the reality that Tampa Bay has to play the regular season without one of their core players...

It’s really not that advantageous, plus who knows what his game will be like missing all that time.

 

[doublechili]

Simply put, Cap Circumvention via LTIR

Teams like Tampa Bay and Toronto are using LTIR to bolster their rosters for the playoffs.

Kucherov being out the entire season, giving the Lightning $10.5M in extra cap relief throughout the season. But as soon as the playoffs come around, he can be activated off LTIR without a hiccup and Tampa will be playing in the playoffs with a roster that could have a cap hit north of $95M.

Toronto acquired Riley Nash from Columbus and it won’t count for a cent on their cap since he’s on LTIR and won’t be activated until the playoffs where there is no salary cap.

The Salary cap was created to give smaller market teams a fighting chance against the larger spending, big markets of the NHL. But with this LTIR loophole, it allows teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay extra cap space since in the playoffs, there is no salary cap.


There is a simple solution to this problem, have a salary cap in the playoffs. it would completely negate this loophole.

I 115% agree with this post.

I'm able to do that because I put my dog on LTIR and am able to go over 100% agreement.

 

[coopooter]

The Leafs have been funding "have not" teams via revenue sharing.

Excuse me while I don't care if the Leafs wield there financial might in any way they can.

Because that worked so well since 1967??