the nhl 03/04 rookie crop is certainly impressive, and pretty deep too, but...

[Vlad The Impaler]

Seems to be the sum total of your response ability.

To far-fetched, comical stuff like you posted? Yes.

But then, why should anyone take the word of Red Berenson or Gerry Hart when we have the unquestionable judgement of Vlad the Informer to rely on?

That is twisting the truth. You're the one saying he's going to dominate and be better than J-Bo, Pitkanen and Hamhuis. Not Berenson and Hart. And that's what I find extremely amusing.

Now, that being said, even if God himself told me Komisarek is going to be a franchise player and better than all those guys you named, I'd disagree (I might not point my finger and laugh for fear of burning in hell, though).

Because it doesn't really matter what people have to say when I think I know something. Someone tried that stunt earlier this year (in the preseason) with me when it was mentioned that Koltsov didn't have the best hands in the world. There were then quotes of Mario Lemieux saying Koltsov has great hands.

It's not my fault if Mario Lemieux doesn't know any better and I do.

I've stopped taking at face value that kind of nonsense after I was fooled years ago by Gretzky into thinking Yachmenev was going to be a great player in LA.

 

[#44_delivers]

Seems to be the sum total of your response ability.

But then, why should anyone take the word of Red Berenson or Gerry Hart when we have the unquestionable judgement of Vlad the Informer to rely on?

no doubt almost everything the guy says has nothing to add to anything, but he claims to know all.
its just a shame he never backs up anything he says.

 

[TJF]

no doubt almost everything the guy says has nothing to add to anything, but he claims to know all.
its just a shame he never backs up anything he says.

Why do you Habs fans have some sort of fetish with Komisarek, don't get me wrong, I think he's a good prospect just not a franchise type player but he'll be a solid top 4 guy. Can you guys honestly sit there and tell me that Komisarek will be better than Boumeester and Pitkanen. I'd hate to see what it would be like if Boumeester were drafted by Montreal, you guys would start proclaiming that he's actually Jesus himself. Komisarek is good but even from his draft class alone guys like Hamius and Morrisonn have proven more in the NHL than he has.

 

[#44_delivers]

Why do you Habs fans have some sort of fetish with Komisarek, don't get me wrong, I think he's a good prospect just not a franchise type player but he'll be a solid top 4 guy. Can you guys honestly sit there and tell me that Komisarek will be better than Boumeester and Pitkanen. I'd hate to see what it would be like if Boumeester were drafted by Montreal, you guys would start proclaiming that he's actually Jesus himself. Komisarek is good but even from his draft class alone guys like Hamius and Morrisonn have proven more in the NHL than he has.

buddy i never once said anything about komisarek, so where is all this comming from? i mean have you ever heard me say anything about komisarek?
so why ask me about what other habs fans think about komi?
btw i think komi will be a nice top 4 with good upsides.

 

[TJF]

buddy i never once said anything about komisarek, so where is all this comming from? i mean have you ever heard me say anything about komisarek?
so why ask me about what other habs fans think about komi?
btw i think komi will be a nice top 4 with good upsides.

Opps sorry my bad, I meant to quote db23.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

no doubt almost everything the guy says has nothing to add to anything, but he claims to know all.

Too bad you see it that way. I've never and will never claim to know it all.

its just a shame he never backs up anything he says.

I just pick up my spots more now than I did earlier. I came to the conclusion that it is useless to waste too much time with people when you see a drastic difference of opinion to start with.

However, I really enjoy talking at length about players, prospects and teams. I just try to do it when the discussion seems like it will be enjoyable. I prefer also to avoid repeating what has been said a thousand times.

Otherwise, I keep it short.

Or I point my finger and laugh.

It is more worthwhile for me to spend time talking about Mike Richards than it is to waste time with someone who think Komisarek is the second coming of Christ, for instance.

 

[db23]

But the whole point of these discussions is to offer a viewpoint, then try to use facts and stats and quotes to back it up. If you disagree with someone else's opinion, offer some real information to support your point of view. To just sit back and ridicule because you think you have some God given gift of seeing the future and can't be bothered to explain to those poor mortals who don't have that gift. That is pompous, arrogant and irritating. It contributes nothing to the discourse.

If Komisarek is just a hack who "is only great at cross checking players in the back", offer up some reasons for that opinion. Maybe Komi is on his way to the ECHL next week and you're the only one who knows that. Maybe he has 200 minutes worth of cross checking penalties, or the G.M. is trying to unload him ASAP.

Anything.

 

[stardog]

Not when your team is called the Pittsburgh Penguins.

That actually makes it all the more impressive...thanks for the support.

 

[stardog]

No. That is only the point of the board for certain not-so desirable elements who post here. This place isn't about winning arguments.

The "point of these boards" I would hope is to spread correct information. Information based experience, observations, knowledge and on facts that are*processed* and *put into context*.

It's one thing to list a couple of stats or achievements. It's quite another to interpret it correctly using discernment. That is the difference between you and I. It doesn't really matter to me anymore how I do it. As I said there was a time where I would have been disturbed and unsettled by new guys who don't know what they are talking about and get their panties in a bunch.

I know how this is supposed to play out:

1-We'd go into a long argument process several pages long, like I've done in the past. Insults being thrown (like you've done so far)

2-You'd pull stupid arguments out of your ass, flash stats. Shout very loud like you know your stuff.

3-Observers would take sides. More insults being thrown back and forth

4-The thread gets locked, I get warned and possibly banned. You would as well. Some of my posts would be erased.

5-Eventually I'll be proven right but nobody will remember the argument in the first place.

Nothing gained at all for anybody. Instead, I'm just confident that people who know what I stand for and know me will understand my position. I am also confident some people are agreeing with you, unfortunately for them. All is well, both our opinions are there for people to look at.



Yes. I know how things are, unfortunately for you. If I didn't, I wouldn't state things in the first place because I don't like misinformation nor looking like a dimbulb a few months later. Simply following this simple philosophy and shutting my trap when I don't know better has enabled me to be correct more often than not in the years I've spent here.



The opposite. The smilies are not to show what an expert I am but to show how little I think of statements that are little more than gems of ignorance. Such as pretending Komisarek is a future franchise player.

Vlad you certainly know how to debate....I actually am sorry that I attempted to defend this guys position considering how incredibly rude he has proven himself to be.

I still think he will be closer to a FP than a flop, but as with most things on this site, time will tell.

One thing for sure though, he aint no Orpik

 

[stardog]

no doubt almost everything the guy says has nothing to add to anything, but he claims to know all.
its just a shame he never backs up anything he says.

I dunno about that. While i have read some of your posts and certainly respect your opinions, Vlad has pointed out the reasons that he feel Komi may not make it to the FP tag.
He gives well thought out and intelligent resposes to most, which is all we can ask for.
It is good to have posters such as both of you.

I certainly dont agree with some of the things Vlad says. I have had a few debates with him myself, but he has always been honest and respectful to me and even if his opinions differ, that is all we can ask for from a fellow poster.

There are guys that people dont like (I am high on a few peoples dislike list because of my percieved arrogance or aggressive posting style), guys that people are friendly with, and guys that people may not like, but respect. IMO, Vlad has earned his respect.

And part of the reason he has, is because he usually is willing to back up his reasons and backed them up intelligently (even if he is wrong ).

And by no means am I singling you out for criticism because, as I said, you have my respect in this regard as well.

Can't say the same for others in this thread sadly enough...

Love fest over, now back to the Komi debate.

 

[stardog]

But the whole point of these discussions is to offer a viewpoint, then try to use facts and stats and quotes to back it up. If you disagree with someone else's opinion, offer some real information to support your point of view. To just sit back and ridicule because you think you have some God given gift of seeing the future and can't be bothered to explain to those poor mortals who don't have that gift. That is pompous, arrogant and irritating. It contributes nothing to the discourse.
If Komisarek is just a hack who "is only great at cross checking players in the back", offer up some reasons for that opinion. Maybe Komi is on his way to the ECHL next week and you're the only one who knows that. Maybe he has 200 minutes worth of cross checking penalties, or the G.M. is trying to unload him ASAP.

Anything.

And insulting people is contributing to the "discourse"? Especially those who backed up your view?
If anything, it makes your argument seem less credible and intelligent IMO.

And for the record, i think you may want to go back and read the thread possibly. Vlad DID offer his opinions as to why he feels the way he does, you just missed it. I asked him the question and he responded to it.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Thanks stardog

All I can say as closing words is that the debate on Komisarek is quite old. It's been done a number of times in the past starting in 2001 and we're now dangerously close to 2004.

I used to love writing looong posts or discuss extensively during disagreements but I've come to realize I need to make more careful choices in the matter. Especially when the difference of opinion is the size of the grand canyon. I know in the end few people will change their minds anyway.

It becomes frustrating and less useful to go through this over time. Mike Komisarek is now in the NHL for all to see. Watching him is a better way for anyone to make up his mind on him at this point. No post can EVER be as informative as watching him, IMO.

As for #44 Deliver's post on me rarely contributing: I can see where that's coming from since he registered at HF in December 2003. That's very recent. I used to make full writeups on an insane number of players, both established and prospects. That's all been eaten when the server went down.

So yes, it's probably true. I don't back everything up all the time. I don't feel I need to. I've been here long enough that most people have an opinion on me and how reliable or not I am and that's good enough for me. In time, the more recent posters will see how often I am wrong or right and they will also have a clear opinion of me.

It doesn't matter to me anymore how I am perceived at the time I write something. I write with the mindset of providing information which, to the best of my knowledge and ability is, or will prove to be accurate. I have no crystal ball but I try to leave my impressions only when I feel I have the ability to do so.

In a couple of years, it won't matter how flowery the opinions were. What will matter will be who was right. In that respect, I still feel I am doing an A+ effort in trying to accomplish the goal. That's how I hope most posters judge me at HF. By how good or bad my opinions are/turned out and not how good or bad they were presented.

One other thing that doesn't help is the server is unreliable. In the past, I wrote long extensive posts but the server went down and this is when I reconsidered. I saw HF as an invaluable archive with search function, where you could point people to past posts. This is not the case. In fact, even today some posts disappear. For instance, The Pucks latest top 50 from only a few months ago has disappeared. A lot of hard work went into this as I think almost 20 posters here made lists over a period of two weeks and then Pucks compiled it.

Better to cut to the chase and say what I think a bit more bluntly, IMO.

I still intend to go more at length when the subject isn't already beaten to death. Not the case here :p

 

[db23]

And insulting people is contributing to the "discourse"? Especially those who backed up your view?
If anything, it makes your argument seem less credible and intelligent IMO.

And for the record, i think you may want to go back and read the thread possibly. Vlad DID offer his opinions as to why he feels the way he does, you just missed it. I asked him the question and he responded to it.

 

[db23]

And insulting people is contributing to the "discourse"? Especially those who backed up your view?
If anything, it makes your argument seem less credible and intelligent IMO.

And for the record, i think you may want to go back and read the thread possibly. Vlad DID offer his opinions as to why he feels the way he does, you just missed it. I asked him the question and he responded to it.

There was nothing factual, statsitical, or quoteworthy in his response. You obviously come from the same place as he does, so there is no point in trying reason, but I want a bit more than "......just crap, only good at cross checking people from behind, only in the NHL because he was taken with a high pick by an overrated G.M.....etc., etc.....".

I don't expect Mensa candidates on these boards, but is a minimal degree of literacy, logic and reason too much to ask for?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I don't expect Mensa candidates on these boards, but is a minimal degree of literacy, logic and reason too much to ask for?

You're right. I should take a page off you and use formidable logic that would lead me to believe Komisarek is a future franchise player and will be better than Bouwmeester and Pitkanen.

Just gimme a chance, I'll eventually see the light like you did.

If you wrote a thesis on this, maybe it would help as well?

 

[db23]

You're right. I should take a page off you and use formidable logic.....

Just gimme a chance, I'll eventually see the light like you did.

I accept your apology. that seems like a good way to end the debate.

Cheers, Vlad, you're a big man.

 

[btn]

His wrist shot is harder than most player's slapshots, he has knocked a couple of gaolies backwards with wristers from the blueline this year. His passes are harder than many players shots.

You didn't even mention his ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

 

[db23]

You didn't even mention his ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Well, he only does that on his time off, so I didn't really think it was relevent to this discussion. But good point, thanks for bringing it up.

 

[stardog]

There was nothing factual, statsitical, or quoteworthy in his response. You obviously come from the same place as he does, so there is no point in trying reason, but I want a bit more than "......just crap, only good at cross checking people from behind, only in the NHL because he was taken with a high pick by an overrated G.M.....etc., etc.....".

I don't expect Mensa candidates on these boards, but is a minimal degree of literacy, logic and reason too much to ask for?

I come from the same place he does? What exactly is that susposed to mean? Considering that I sided more with you than Vlad on Komisarek I find that to be incredibly ironic.

This board is based on information and opinion. Take his and mine for what it is worth.
And certainly there is a vast degree of literacy, logic and reason on these boards. By suggesting Vlad or myself lack those qualitirs is especially arrogant wouldn't you say? Who are you to dictate the standards of how a person posts?
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion but i doubt you will find many that would suggest that Vlad lacks any of those qualities that you seem to look for in a poster. Maybe they don't like the way he does it, or how he comes across, but to suggest he is either misinformed, ignorant or stupid is just sour grapes that he doesn't agree with your opinion IMO.
And to offer proof of such, you turned things personal by insulting those whose opinion differed from your own.

And I don't expect Mensa candidates either, but also wouldn't expect disparaging remarks to those who dont agree with you. That is IMO, something that lacks literacy, logic and reason in itself.

For the record I think Komisarek will be one heck of a player. I have stated so on the Hab boards. I would love to have him on my team.
But I am not going go off and insult those who dont agree with that just to make my point. To me it makes you seem less credible.

I am sorry, but the reasons Vladdy gave were easily understood by me.
If you feel different then great for you. I just dont see the need for such anger or rudeness to get your point acroos.
Do you agree that isn't needed as well? Do you agree that it was rude?
And you havn't addressed that at all, so get off Vlad's case for not addressing your questions when you didnt address his.

 

[stardog]

You didn't even mention his ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Or that sometimes when using his wrist shot, it blows a complete hole into opposing goalies. Kinda like a high powered rifle.

 

[db23]

Or that sometimes when using his wrist shot, it blows a complete hole into opposing goalies. Kinda like a high powered rifle.

Hnag on a minute there, straydog, I think you are exaggerating. We know he has a powerful shot, but don't get carried away with the rhetoric.