The Next Step(s) For The Edmonton Oilers.

McFlyingV

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Feb 22, 2013
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You’re making it seem like all those prospects are can’t miss sure fire guys. Likely 1-2 actually have an impact in the NHL. I agree with you on the patience with the guys tho. Drafting is one thing, developing is another.
1-2 out of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Bouchard, McLeod, Maksimov, Bear, and Benson?

I sincerely doubt that. I would be incredibly surprised if all of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, and Bouchard don't make at least some level of quality impact at the NHL. The other 4 you have a point and we should be happy if 1 or 2 of those become quality NHLers.
 

Weitz

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Sep 23, 2014
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1-2 out of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Bouchard, McLeod, Maksimov, Bear, and Benson?

I sincerely doubt that. I would be incredibly surprised if all of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, and Bouchard don't make at least some level of quality impact at the NHL. The other 4 you have a point and we should be happy if 1 or 2 of those become quality NHLers.

Puljujarvi is already struggling at the NHL level and needs to take huge steps. Yamamoto is tiny and those kind of guys are very hit or miss. If JP tops as a 3rd liner thats a failing IMO. I wouldn't say either of those guys are locks for GOOD top 6 players.

Bouchard I won't comment on because he was just drafted. But its the Oilers so I am sure he will be thrusted into the lineup this year.
 

McFlyingV

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Puljujarvi is already struggling at the NHL level and needs to take huge steps. Yamamoto is tiny and those kind of guys are very hit or miss. If JP tops as a 3rd liner thats a failing IMO. I wouldn't say either of those guys are locks for GOOD top 6 players.

Bouchard I won't comment on because he was just drafted. But its the Oilers so I am sure he will be thrusted into the lineup this year.
Puljujarvi is already and 3rd line player. If the coach actually utilizes him properly he will become a top 6 player. Yamamoto showed he could not look out of place as a just turned 19 year old last season. He'll be fine. Small guys who are smart and can skate, and are highly skilled with a little bit of grit tend to overcome that size advantage.

Both of those players will be top 9 players at minimum. Don't care if you disagree, you can save this post and quote me on it it in 5 years.
 

Soundwave

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This franchise hasn't given McDavid enough talent to work with.

Lucic is a low hockey IQ player who can't handle the puck and makes dumb blind passes half the time to nobody, even putting aside his lack of speed. Strome is a downgrade on Eberle skill wise and a vanilla player who doesn't do any one thing well.

Larsson has little to no offensive ability. Sekera is a middle of the road guy, again no elite offensive ability there. They chose to gamble on Griffin Reinhart, another low talent/low ability plug instead of taking a chance on a player like Barzal or Kyle Connor or Brock Boeser.

In 3 years they haven't added even *one* single player by signing or trade that significantly upgrades the team skill wise to the contrary they've downgraded the team's talent for middling plugger "upgrades" like Larsson, Russell, Lucic, Strome.

They've surrounded McDavid with RNH + Drai + a bunch of plugger/grinder players who lack the talent to make high impact plays.

This is not how you build a team around a great player. It isn't how it worked for Gretzky (had a freaking All-Star team around him), Lemieux (gained several high skill players over time), Crosby (has had Malkin but they also went out and got Kessel, Schultz, and other good pieces), or Ovechkin (added Kuznetsov and Carlsson to help Ovy).

The "next step" is to pray Yamamoto actually brings some skill to the table (and that might be 2-3 years away), we need management that will bring McDavid actual help, not stop gap grinder options. They've built a very unskilled team around one singular very skilled player. It's a dumb combination.
 
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Aerchon

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This franchise hasn't given McDavid enough talent to work with.

Lucic is a low hockey IQ player who can't handle the puck and makes dumb blind passes half the time to nobody, even putting aside his lack of speed. Strome is a downgrade on Eberle skill wise and a vanilla player who doesn't do any one thing well.

Larsson has little to no offensive ability. Sekera is a middle of the road guy, again no elite offensive ability there. They chose to gamble on Griffin Reinhart, another low talent/low ability plug instead of taking a chance on a player like Barzal or Kyle Connor or Brock Boeser.

In 3 years they haven't added even *one* single player by signing or trade that significantly upgrades the team skill wise to the contrary they've downgraded the team's talent for middling plugger "upgrades" like Larsson, Russell, Lucic, Strome.

They've surrounded McDavid with RNH + Drai + a bunch of plugger/grinder players who lack the talent to make high impact plays.

This is not how you build a team around a great player. It isn't how it worked for Gretzky (had a freaking All-Star team around him), Lemieux (gained several high skill players over time), Crosby (has had Malkin but they also went out and got Kessel, Schultz, and other good pieces), or Ovechkin (added Kuznetsov and Carlsson to help Ovy).

The "next step" is to pray Yamamoto actually brings some skill to the table (and that might be 2-3 years away), we need management that will bring McDavid actual help, not stop gap grinder options. They've built a very unskilled team around one singular very skilled player. It's a dumb combination.

Not going to go indepth but some of what you are saying is overtly pessimistic and your examples flawed because those power house teams and generational talents you mention were built/supplemented primarily through the draft.
 
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AM

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This franchise hasn't given McDavid enough talent to work with.

Lucic is a low hockey IQ player who can't handle the puck and makes dumb blind passes half the time to nobody, even putting aside his lack of speed. Strome is a downgrade on Eberle skill wise and a vanilla player who doesn't do any one thing well.

Larsson has little to no offensive ability. Sekera is a middle of the road guy, again no elite offensive ability there. They chose to gamble on Griffin Reinhart, another low talent/low ability plug instead of taking a chance on a player like Barzal or Kyle Connor or Brock Boeser.

In 3 years they haven't added even *one* single player by signing or trade that significantly upgrades the team skill wise to the contrary they've downgraded the team's talent for middling plugger "upgrades" like Larsson, Russell, Lucic, Strome.

They've surrounded McDavid with RNH + Drai + a bunch of plugger/grinder players who lack the talent to make high impact plays.

This is not how you build a team around a great player. It isn't how it worked for Gretzky (had a freaking All-Star team around him), Lemieux (gained several high skill players over time), Crosby (has had Malkin but they also went out and got Kessel, Schultz, and other good pieces), or Ovechkin (added Kuznetsov and Carlsson to help Ovy).

The "next step" is to pray Yamamoto actually brings some skill to the table (and that might be 2-3 years away), we need management that will bring McDavid actual help, not stop gap grinder options. They've built a very unskilled team around one singular very skilled player. It's a dumb combination.

The players around Gretzky become good. They didnt start out that way.
 
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Aceboogie

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I think Yamamoto and JP can be really good support players for McDavid in a few years. I think the biggest risk now is that we have to develop them into those type of players in the meantime, and we removed all the players that should have been there to shelter and develop them. But I think HFOil is sleeping on JP personally
 

Soundwave

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The players around Gretzky become good. They didnt start out that way.

By Gretzky's third year:

Anderson - 105 points
Coffey - 89 points
Messier - 88 points
Kurri - 86 points

In Lemieux's 4th season they went out and got Paul Coffey, the equivalent of which would be landing Erik Karlsson today.

No great player has had team building around him like this, trying to shove a bunch of low/middling talent role and grinder players together and call it a day. This is closer to the Iginla era Flames.
 

Ck1

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By Gretzky's third year:

Anderson - 105 points
Coffey - 89 points
Messier - 88 points
Kurri - 86 points

In Lemieux's 4th season they went out and got Paul Coffey, the equivalent of which would be landing Erik Karlsson today.

No great player has had team building around him like this, trying to shove a bunch of low/middling talent role and grinder players together and call it a day. This is closer to the Iginla era Flames.
And the next yr Gretzky had 196
Messier 106
Anderson 104
Kurri 104
Coffey 96
Can't use what players got for points back then when games scores were much higher then they are today. And in todays cap era you would never be able to keep all those players together anyways. Today's nhl you need a couple superstars surrounded by a good core of decent players that play 110% every night and build good team chemistry. Vegas was a great example this year that you don't need a team full of superstars. Finding and developing those players is the diff between winning and losing imo
 

Mcnotloilersfan

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By Gretzky's third year:

Anderson - 105 points
Coffey - 89 points
Messier - 88 points
Kurri - 86 points

In Lemieux's 4th season they went out and got Paul Coffey, the equivalent of which would be landing Erik Karlsson today.

No great player has had team building around him like this, trying to shove a bunch of low/middling talent role and grinder players together and call it a day. This is closer to the Iginla era Flames.

Draisaitl, RNH, Bouchard, Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Nurse, Larsson, Klefbom.

Ugh. Such low talent around McDavid.
 

Drivesaitl

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By Gretzky's third year:

Anderson - 105 points
Coffey - 89 points
Messier - 88 points
Kurri - 86 points

In Lemieux's 4th season they went out and got Paul Coffey, the equivalent of which would be landing Erik Karlsson today.

No great player has had team building around him like this, trying to shove a bunch of low/middling talent role and grinder players together and call it a day. This is closer to the Iginla era Flames.


Just to note that Anderson was ALWAYS going to be a star player. He was a hell of a player. Rookie season he knocks in 30 and then gets 5 more in the playoffs in 9GP. He was easily the 2nd best Oiler in the playoffs. He also got 105pts in his 2nd season. He hit the ground running and that was always going to be the case. Mess and Kurri owed more to watching Gretzky greatness. Mess particularly did not have a very polished offensive game to start and learned a lot from Anderson as well. Glenn Anderson started out being a far better player than Messier.
 

Drivesaitl

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The players around Gretzky become good. They didnt start out that way.

Anderson was ALWAYS going to be a star player in this league.

Mess was good enough to be drafted as a 16yr old and played pro hockey at that age. There was always going to be a star player there.

Coffey out of Junior had tons of comparisons to Bobby Orr which just continued throughout his career. Not due to Gretzky.

Kurri was very transformed by Gretzky, right on that one. Mess offensive game and professionality improved thanks to Gretz.

But these were all going to be good to great players.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Draisaitl, RNH, Bouchard, Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Nurse, Larsson, Klefbom.

Ugh. Such low talent around McDavid.

Bouchard/Yamamoto/Puljujarvi haven't done anything at the NHL level and likely require years of development. Puljujarvi at this point doesn't look like anything special as others in his draft class have already asserted themselves as impact players. I hope he pans out, but as of right now all these guys are all question marks. I think Bouchard will be a good player, but I also think that will take a few years.

The rest is nothing special. Larsson/Klefbom/Nurse are not that talented, none of these guys are able to take over a game. RNH is good if paired with McDavid.

Draisaitl is the other legit piece Connor has, but it's questionable what level of player he is given the type of winger support afforded to him by this current roster. 60-ish points maybe? He had 70 last year but played half the year with McDavid to get there. He needs to be better than that.

Laine, Matthews, MacKinnon, Tavares (now), Stamkos have more talent to play with, Eichel is maybe the only guy who's really good who has a similar lack of talent around him, but that he now has Dahlin. Crosby/Ovechkin obviously have way more talent around them.

McDavid for a player of his talent/caliber has the least amount of good talent around him since Lemieux, but Pittsburgh eventually basically surrounded him with an All-Star team and by his 4th year were making monster moves like getting Coffey. I'd say even Eric Lindros had more to work with.

This team hasn't added one legit high skilled player in 4 full summers that will be ready to make a big impact next season. Draisaitl and RNH were already here when McDavid was drafted, they've done nothing but surround the most skilled player in the world with a team full of grinders/muckers/slow skaters/meh talents. This is not a skilled hockey team past the McDavid line.
 
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CantHaveTkachev

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Bouchard/Yamamoto/Puljujarvi haven't done anything at the NHL level and likely require years of development. Puljujarvi at this point doesn't look like anything special as others in his draft class have already asserted themselves as impact players. I hope he pans out, but as of right now all these guys are all question marks. I think Bouchard will be a good player, but I also think that will take a few years.

Laine, Matthews, MacKinnon, Tavares (now), Stamkos have more talent to play with, Eichel is maybe the only guy who's really good who has a similar lack of talent around him, but that he now has Dahlin. Crosby/Ovechkin obviously have way more talent around them.

This team hasn't added one legit high skilled player in 4 full summers that will be ready to make a big impact next season. Draisaitl and RNH were already here when McDavid was drafted, they've done nothing but surround the most skilled player in the world with a team full of grinders/muckers/slow skaters/meh talents.
other than Rantanen, who do the Avs have in terms of talent? Landeskog? Jost? nothing special

as for Tavares, didn't he play with a ton of talent on the NYI? Barzal had 85 points, Lee scored 40 goals, Bailey had 71 points
yeah, no talent there lol
 

Soundwave

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other than Rantanen, who do the Avs have in terms of talent? Landeskog? Jost? nothing special

as for Tavares, didn't he play with a ton of talent on the NYI? Barzal had 85 points, Lee scored 40 goals, Bailey had 71 points
yeah, no talent there lol

Well Tyson Barrie had the 2nd highest PPG for a d-man in the NHL last season after Karlsson I believe. If that happened in Edmonton, they'd build Barrie a statue.

Landeskog is not bad either, Erik Johnson is probably underrated too.

And yeah even so, that's not good enough if I'm looking at the Avs. They need to get better than that unless they are content with just being a bubble team.

Tavares has a legit team with the Leafs squad now, Weight had that Islanders team playing fire wagon hockey because he knew they had nothing in net/back end, it almost worked, had them in the hunt anyway for over half the season but that was plainly inflated numbers. Barzal is legit, but Lee/Bailey are not that tier of player.
 
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McFlash97

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other than Rantanen, who do the Avs have in terms of talent? Landeskog? Jost? nothing special

as for Tavares, didn't he play with a ton of talent on the NYI? Barzal had 85 points, Lee scored 40 goals, Bailey had 71 points
yeah, no talent there lol

Can u imagine Jost and Landeskog on 97s wing the last 3 seasons as opposed to Lucic, Maroon, , bla bla bla bla. Players with actual skill and speed just consistent players with skill to build chemistry with
 

CantHaveTkachev

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Can u imagine Jost and Landeskog on 97s wing the last 3 seasons as opposed to Lucic, Maroon, , bla bla bla bla. Players with actual skill and speed just consistent players with skill to build chemistry with
why won't RNH, Yamamoto or Puljujarvi work? they have just as much, if not more skill than Landeskog and Jost
 

CantHaveTkachev

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Well Tyson Barrie had the 2nd highest PPG for a d-man in the NHL last season after Karlsson I believe. If that happened in Edmonton, they'd build Barrie a statue.

Landeskog is not bad either, Erik Johnson is probably underrated too.
Tyson Barrie is a great PP defenseman but a train-wreck defensively...hence being a collective -65 the past 3 seasons
Erik Johnson is basically Adam Larsson but 6 years older and with more offense
and Jost had 22 points...2 more than Puljujarvi
again, nothing special there other than a top-heavy team that relied on goaltending

Tavares has a legit team with the Leafs squad now, Weight had that Islanders team playing fire wagon hockey because he knew they had nothing in net/back end, it almost worked, had them in the hunt anyway for over half the season but that was plainly inflated numbers. Barzal is legit, but Lee/Bailey are not that tier of player.
the point is Tavares had plenty of skill to work with in NY, it takes more than that to win games
 

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