The Next 'Core'

FanboySlayer*

Guest
We all remember when the franchise's soul was ripped apart by the departures of Drury and Briere. The young core we were left to pin our hopes on included Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Connoly, Stafford, Campbell, Gaustad, Paille, MacArthur and Miller in goal. As hard as it was to take losing the heart and soul of the team that young core which remained did have lots of promise and looking at the stats from the 2006-2007 many had already broken through as young stars - Vanek with 43 goals and 84 points, Pominville with 34 goals and 68 points, Roy 21 goals and 63 points, Campbell 48 points, Stafford projected to a full season 26 goals and 54 points.

And now with what looks like a back to square one rebuild underway, possibly going into next season minus Pominville, Vanek and Miller, what is the next 'core' to put our hopes in?

It's Myers, Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno and a bunch of kids with little or no professional experience and some not even drafted yet. Myers we already know is suspect character/maturity wise, came in unprepared out of shape and gets very down on himself, doesn't like pressure. Hodgson was not liked in the room in Vancouver, there were the stories of his hockey dad father pushing management for more ice time and a bigger role in his kid's rookie season on a team filled with veterans. Also talk of Cody just not fitting in socially - he's a daddy's boy who prefers chess to boozing and carousing. If he was your son you'd be fine and maybe proud of that - in the culture of hockey, that is a 'square peg'. Ennis, there was talk about him a couple months ago, regarding dedication/preparation, I forget Paul Hamilton's words but they were not flattering to Ennis. Hamilton is around the team as much as anybody in the media. Grigorenko fell to 12th in the draft because of doubts about his character and dedication. Armia will be a kid from Europe on his own in North America for the first time, sure to be growing pains on and off the ice. With the dearth of talent on the Sabres young players will be force fed to play in the NHL. Not the best situation for young players, a small number of those thrive who get thrown in the deep end young but most are worse for it.

What this team needs to do in the off season is trade some of the picks for NHL veterans and get others through free agency, you can't have a room full of kids, you need older players who will demand and command respect and you need some real 'dirtbags', who aren't afraid to make things unpleasant for the kids if need be, put a little fear into them. This was a major problem I believe with the last 'core' - they were allowed to create their own culture and it was a culture of softness and comfort with little accountability and expectations. Poor Lindy, the grumpy Dad barking into the wind as the grass remained unmown, the garbage bags piling up in the garage, and the grades remained C's for the underachievers.

The more I think about it the more I realize that Vanek has to go, there's not a chance he re-signs here after next season with the youth movement underway. We need to get as full value as we can for him and that means before next season begins.

There's no turning back now in my opinion. The option to hang on to Miller and Vanek another year hoping they both re-sign is too risky, even if they play for us next year and under a new coach or even Rolston some kids come in and contribute well, Myers reclaims some of his potential and the Sabres were to make the playoffs - I still think Vanek and Miller leave without us getting anything in return. Can't afford that, making the playoffs and a first round exit isn't worth that risk.

Regier can't survive this, please tell me I'm right. If this team was a publically traded stock it would be worth about 4 dollars now from 30 dollars a couple of years ago. The stockholders would demand the CEO had to go and he'd be gone.
 

Karate Johnson*

Guest
Agree on most points.

The culture needs changing. Regher might just save his job if he does indeed trade V,P,M, And Stafford.
 

indigoo

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Nov 26, 2011
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I'd rather they not build around a select number of guys, but rather get the pieces they need to win every year.
 

Man of Principles

The Krueger Effect
Nov 30, 2011
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I'm guessing they're looking to add youth first and foremost right now. They'll look to add some leadership/proven talent in the Summer. By opening night 2013, we will have a good mix of youth and veterans.
 

MayDay

Registered User
Oct 21, 2005
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Where do you draw the line between core and non-core?

I think everyone agrees on Myers, Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno, and Grigorenko going forward.

Armia? Can we call him core before we ever know whether he'll even crack the NHL? At least see how he'll do in Rochester first.

What about Tropp? McNabb? Girgensons? Are they part of the new core?
 

stokes84

Registered User
Jun 30, 2008
19,285
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I think I'll wait until after tomorrow to discuss this. And then I will wait until after the draft to feel reasonably confident I am right. Right now I feel like any of these guys can be traded if the deal is right.
 

FanboySlayer*

Guest
doh, forgot Ehrhoff - he's older but he is part of the new 'core' going forward

i don't think you can say Grigorenko, Girgensons, Armia are the new 'core' yet - we expect them to be and because we are rebuilding and have no depth they will be given the opportunity to become part of the new 'core' faster - Pysyk and McNabb hopefully become part of the new 'core', I have liked Pysyk so far

if we get a top 5 pick then he automatically becomes part of the new 'core'

we need to tank the rest of the season, be smart - maybe finally we'll have some good luck and we'll move up in the draft lottery
 

hockey18

Registered User
Jan 14, 2009
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how could the Sabres possibly let Regier retool this team after he was the one that did all the original signings, extensions, and trades? If they want to succeed, he has to go. Not sure he deserves another chance, he certainly hasn't done much to warrant any confidence in his ability to do the job.
 

Paxon

202* Stanley Cup Champions
Jul 13, 2003
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how could the Sabres possibly let Regier retool this team after he was the one that did all the original signings, extensions, and trades? If they want to succeed, he has to go. Not sure he deserves another chance, he certainly hasn't done much to warrant any confidence in his ability to do the job.

Regier was GM for two Cup-worthy teams. Yes, the first one was only in his second season as GM, but he did make moves with that roster. The second one was thoroughly built by him. I'm not going to argue we should keep him because I'm rather indifferent on the issue, but the idea that he's done nothing with his time here is wrong.

He failed with this latest phase, that being the post Drury-Briere phase. In hindsight that team should either have been blown up more, or something had to be done to bring in more high-end talent. He has however started to turn things around organizationally the past couple years. From this deadline to next years will be the apex of this attempt to regenerate the team and upon which its success or failure will rest. Perhaps the team would be better off with a fresh perspective, but I don't see the basis for judging Darcy's tenure as having done nothing and further I don't understand looking at what he's doing lately and judging it to be the wrong direction.
 

skibum

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Jan 23, 2011
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Mike Weber, anyone? Andrej Sekera? Looks like Ville Leino could be here a while, too.
 

Rowley Birkin

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Oct 31, 2004
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Steve Ott ?

Seems to me like the perfect veteran player for the younger ones to look up to. The kind of guy I'd want to keep around.
 

Paxon

202* Stanley Cup Champions
Jul 13, 2003
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Personally I find this hard to discuss until we know what happens with Vanek, Poms, and Miller, which we may not know until next deadline (it's unlikely any of the 3 remain past the deadline unless they've already been extended). If, say, all 3 were traded we'd surely have acquired some serious building blocks in return, possibly leading to a couple of our perceived "new core" pieces becoming obsolete.

Further, there are players upon which many of our hopes rest who haven't yet proven they are NHL players, thus we can't exactly count them as being part of a core yet. Grigorenko and Armia chief among them, but also possibly McNabb/Pysyk as well as Girgensons.

Out of current roster players: Hodgson, Ehrhoff, Ennis, Foligno, Myers.

Unfortunately, there's no goaltender to mention as even a possible future part of the core yet. It'd be awesome if Makarov becomes an NHL starter, but there's simply no reason to even talk about him as a possibility at this point as doing so would be a dangerous game. The proper perspective right now is that the Sabres have essentially nothing at goaltender beyond Ryan Miller.
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
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In the Panderverse
Personally I find this hard to discuss until we know what happens with Vanek, Poms, and Miller, which we may not know until next deadline (it's unlikely any of the 3 remain past the deadline unless they've already been extended). If, say, all 3 were traded we'd surely have acquired some serious building blocks in return, possibly leading to a couple of our perceived "new core" pieces becoming obsolete.

Further, there are players upon which many of our hopes rest who haven't yet proven they are NHL players, thus we can't exactly count them as being part of a core yet. Grigorenko and Armia chief among them, but also possibly McNabb/Pysyk as well as Girgensons.

Out of current roster players: Hodgson, Ehrhoff, Ennis, Foligno, Myers.

Unfortunately, there's no goaltender to mention as even a possible future part of the core yet. It'd be awesome if Makarov becomes an NHL starter, but there's simply no reason to even talk about him as a possibility at this point as doing so would be a dangerous game. The proper perspective right now is that the Sabres have essentially nothing at goaltender beyond Ryan Miller.

Agree with the bolded. And, as I posted in another recent thread (some form of retooling / roster revamp thread - I lose count of them), that question (Miller) needs to be answered to determine which way to go.
 

Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
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Also, I personally don't see Ennis within that group. If somehow the likes of TV/JP/Miller/Staff aren't moved, or don't garner all of the pieces needed, Ennis would be first in line as trade bait.
 

threeVo

Registered User
Jan 5, 2010
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Tampa
Veterans you need to keep from a leadership/experience perspective:

Ott, Ehrhoff, Sekera

D Core:
Myers - He will rebound, hes still young and weve already paid him a lot of $
Pysyk - Small sample size but he is going to be a ultra reliable #2-3 Dman for a long time
McCabe - to a lesser extent, but he is a leader and will be brought in slowly

F Core:
Foligno - Young but now has almost one NHL season, Could also wear "C" in future
Ennis - I dont think trading him is a wise decision, he is dynamic offensively which we lack
Hodgson - 1C potential, offensively NHL ready, D zone is ECHL quality, but that is fixable
Grigorenko - Young and Dynamic, you build around this not trade it

G Core:
Not drafted or in the system yet. Makarov is the closest thing, eventhough I think Leggio needs to get a shot he is 28 or 29 already, but theres a lot of quality years if he comes in and can impress. This is less of a concern though because look how terrible this team is with an elite goaltender. I believe spending more than $3m-$4m max on a goalie has negative value. Sure they are hard to find, but system goalies can win Cups and that is the ultimate goal. Spend the $3 on your dcore or a shutdown C.

The team lacks leadership that is ready to step in and play next season. McCabe as mentioned and Girgensons seem to be natural leaders but neither are NHL ready next season. Armia is not a leader but he is a tweener part of the core moving forward. I would not be shocked to see him traded for a veteran top 6 winger to offset some of the youth movement this teams roster is going to endure.
 

Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
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Veterans you need to keep from a leadership/experience perspective:

Ott, Ehrhoff, Sekera

D Core:
Myers - He will rebound, hes still young and weve already paid him a lot of $
Pysyk - Small sample size but he is going to be a ultra reliable #2-3 Dman for a long time
McCabe - to a lesser extent, but he is a leader and will be brought in slowly

F Core:
Foligno - Young but now has almost one NHL season, Could also wear "C" in future
Ennis - I dont think trading him is a wise decision, he is dynamic offensively which we lack
Hodgson - 1C potential, offensively NHL ready, D zone is ECHL quality, but that is fixable
Grigorenko - Young and Dynamic, you build around this not trade it

G Core:
Not drafted or in the system yet. Makarov is the closest thing, eventhough I think Leggio needs to get a shot he is 28 or 29 already, but theres a lot of quality years if he comes in and can impress. This is less of a concern though because look how terrible this team is with an elite goaltender. I believe spending more than $3m-$4m max on a goalie has negative value. Sure they are hard to find, but system goalies can win Cups and that is the ultimate goal. Spend the $3 on your dcore or a shutdown C.

The team lacks leadership that is ready to step in and play next season. McCabe as mentioned and Girgensons seem to be natural leaders but neither are NHL ready next season. Armia is not a leader but he is a tweener part of the core moving forward. I would not be shocked to see him traded for a veteran top 6 winger to offset some of the youth movement this teams roster is going to endure.

Good call with Sekera as well as Ehrhoff. These guys are both under rated to me and should now be considered the veteran presence at the back.

Pretty much agree with this post as a whole - Armia could also be a candidate as bait. And weather its Ennis/Coho or whoever (I think its crazy to suggest Coho since he is no.1 C material personally) we should not consider all of the younger top end guys as 'Core' since they obviously all won't be.

As for the Goalie(s) going forward - this for me is more of what you guys call a 'crap shoot'. I'm ready to move on from Miller personally, as you correctly say - for me as important a good goalie is, it is far more effective building a great team and riding a hot goalie in the playoffs than having the so called 'franchise goalie' and paying him X million more a year.
 

The Living Beast

Registered User
Jun 14, 2012
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We've definitely got some great pieces moving forward. This rebuild has promise (I mean look at Calgary LOL).

Forwards
-Mikhail Grigorenko
-Joel Armia
-Cody Hodgson
-Tyler Ennis
-Marcus Foligno
-Dan Catenacci
-Zemgus Girgensens
-Justin Kea and Corey Tropp are even looking pretty good.

Defense
-Mark Pysyk
-Tyler Myers
-Jake McCabe
-Brayden McNabb

Add some middle of the road vets that should stay (Christian Ehrhoff, Andrej Sekera, Mike Weber, Steve Ott, Pat Kaleta) and some lower level prospects (Brian Flynn, JGL, Andrey Makarov) and we have a pretty nice looking core going forward. Don't forget about whatever assets we get fromk Vanek, Pominville, Miller and Stafford, although I think it would be wise to try to keep Vanek or Miller around (not both, just one), and on top of that we have our upcoming top 10 pick and onslaught of seconds.
 

Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
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Add some middle of the road vets that should stay (Christian Ehrhoff, Andrej Sekera, Mike Weber, Steve Ott, Pat Kaleta) and some lower level prospects (Brian Flynn, JGL, Andrey Makarov) and we have a pretty nice looking core going forward. Don't forget about whatever assets we get fromk Vanek, Pominville, Miller and Stafford, although I think it would be wise to try to keep Vanek or Miller around (not both, just one), and on top of that we have our upcoming top 10 pick and onslaught of seconds.

Why would you say this. Surely one wouldn't stick around without the other, and there would be no point keeping just one on a bottom feeding team ?

Agree that it is harder to part with these two when compared to Staff and to a lesser extent JP. But if you are committed, you have to be committed.
 

Sabre Dance

Make Hockey Fun Again
Jul 27, 2006
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The Sabres are still missing that elite 1st line leader that the team rallies around.

To me the new core looks a lot like the old core. Can be great with the right leader, but by themselves inconsistent.
 

jBuds

pretty damn valuable
Apr 9, 2005
30,876
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The new core

With the old core pretty much down and out, in various forms, I have to ask, as bluntly as possible:


Who should "the new core "consist of?


Who are we building the team around? Are we still a few years away from establishing a core? May seem vague, but give it a shot.
 

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