The Next 4 years

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
The Flyers have Claude Giroux and Jake Voracek locked up for atleast the next 4 years. I presume the next 4 years will be much more productive than the 4 years beyond that should they choose to play.

The next 4 years also give us the the advantage of having coots, and ghost locked up to extremely favorable contracts, while having a pleothera of talented young players such as nolan ,sanheim, myers , provorov, frost, lindholm, hart, konecny etc all under team control for the next 4 years.

it is quite possible that our lineup looks like this within the next 4 years.

Giroux Coots konecny
Lindblom patrick voracek
jvr frost Allison
farabee rubstov laberge


provy myers
sanheim ghost
morin ginning
friedman

hart

that would presumbably leave top prospects such as o'brien, ratcliffe, and Tanner L as guys would would not be on the roster plus a vareity of potential hidden gems we have out there.

the only player in that groupoing that does not fit the immediate time frame in which they would be needed is Hart.

I think it will take hart atleast 2 years to get up to the flyers and become a goalie that can win a cup. That means we only have a 2 year window of having our highest probability of winning a cup . I don't like the fact that hexy has been very patient with this group, drafting and developing to only have a 2 year window. I think something needs to be down to focus on this next for years. for something needs to be done to focus on the years beyond giroux and voracek.

I think signing bobrovsky gives us a chance to win immediately. Which makess Hart Expendable. Considering this roster we should have the capsapce to do it.

As much i like Carter Hart and am impressed by his ability, I don't see a time frame in which we win a cup with him and giroux on the same roster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lurch

PhillyWings

Registered User
May 10, 2010
1,221
390
PA
Trade Giroux and Voracek for youth and picks before father time catches up to them. Over the next two years the Flyers will be an average team that will be nowhere close to winning a cup.
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
Trade Giroux and Voracek for youth and picks before father time catches up to them. Over the next two years the Flyers will be an average team that will be nowhere close to winning a cup.

that is the other route. Trade those two for a haul,

or trade some prospects and picks and go for a nice 4 year run.

If you do nothing, a cup is not going to magicallyland on your lap.
 

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
5,656
1,581
Carinthia, AUT
Trade Giroux and Voracek for youth and picks before father time catches up to them. Over the next two years the Flyers will be an average team that will be nowhere close to winning a cup.

The "youth" would have to be etablished players in their mid twenties with all-star upside otherwise you are stuck in a circle of rebuild and mediocrity forever.
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
The "youth" would have to be etablished players in their mid twenties with all-star upside otherwise you are stuck in a circle of rebuild and mediocrity forever.

I don't agree with it. What if we traded provorov konecny sanheim and patrick for tavares and bailey. Would that be a bad trade for the islanders because none of those guys are mid twenties?

players can become impactful at any age.
 

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
5,656
1,581
Carinthia, AUT
I don't agree with it. What if we traded provorov konecny sanheim and patrick for tavares and bailey. Would that be a bad trade for the islanders because none of those guys are mid twenties?

players can become impactful at any age.

In what world is this fair value? as lopsided as it could be
And make it early to mid twenties, if it helps to understand my argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FlyguyOX

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
You're too focused on Giroux and Voracek.

Three points:
1) you add the player when the time is right (and you better add the right player)
2) the top veterans can be replaced by young players over time
3) the core of any top team is going to be players from 22-28 in their prime years

When this team is ready to win a Cup, Giroux and Voracek will be afterthoughts, not because they still won't be able to play, but they'll probably be moving down the lineup as young players enter their primes.

2020-2021:
JVR
(31) - Patrick (23) - Voracek (31)
Giroux (33) - Couts (28) - TK (23)
Lindblom (24) - Frost (21) - Simmonds (32)
Farabee (20) - Vorobyev (23) - Allison (23)/Laczynski (23)
Ratcliffe (22) - Rubtsov (22) - Laberge (22)/Kase (23)
Twarynski (23)/Strome (22)/Bunnaman (22)/Lycksell (21) - O'Brien (21) - NAK (24)/Sushko (22)

The top prospects will carve out roles, safety in numbers, a couple could falter and "what me worry"
At some point prospects will be packaged for players or traded forward for picks (Marody).
But in 3 years, what are the odds that none of Ratcliffe, Farabee and/or Lindblom are top 6 LWs?
Same at RW with Allison, Laczynski, O'Brien et al?
And Giroux and Simmonds are the only likely candidates for serious decline at that point.

Provorov (24) - Ghost (27)
Sanheim (24) - Myers (24)
Morin (25) - Friedman (25)
Hagg (25), Hogberg (22), Ginning (20), Kalynuk (23)

We're likely to add more young depth the next two years, whether at the top of the draft or by packaging picks and young forwards

Hart (22), Sandstrom (23), Ustimenko (21), Lyon (28)

Yes, I'm sure at some point Hextall will make his big move, maybe packaging a veteran (to open cap room) and a prospect/draft pick combo for a key addition.
The key will be the tremendous depth this team will have, no more mediocre veterans filling out the bottom 6/3rd pair.
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
In what world is this fair value? as lopsided as it could be
And make it early to mid twenties, if it helps to understand my argument.
id trade giroux and voracek right now for
i guess a similar equivalent would be trade giroux and voracek for shea theodore, brannstrom , glass and suzuki. those are young guys . you plug them into the roster

faraee coots konecny
jvr patrick frost
lindblom glass suzuki
laughton rubstov laberge

provy myers
sanheim theodore
ghost brannstrom

thsi is just me spitballing.
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
You're too focused on Giroux and Voracek.

Three points:
1) you add the player when the time is right (and you better add the right player)
2) the top veterans can be replaced by young players over time
3) the core of any top team is going to be players from 22-28 in their prime years

When this team is ready to win a Cup, Giroux and Voracek will be afterthoughts, not because they still won't be able to play, but they'll probably be moving down the lineup as young players enter their primes.

2020-2021:
JVR
(31) - Patrick (23) - Voracek (31)
Giroux (33) - Couts (28) - TK (23)
Lindblom (24) - Frost (21) - Simmonds (32)
Farabee (20) - Vorobyev (23) - Allison (23)/Laczynski (23)
Ratcliffe (22) - Rubtsov (22) - Laberge (22)/Kase (23)
Twarynski (23)/Strome (22)/Bunnaman (22)/Lycksell (21) - O'Brien (21) - NAK (24)/Sushko (22)

The top prospects will carve out roles, safety in numbers, a couple could falter and "what me worry"
At some point prospects will be packaged for players or traded forward for picks (Marody).
But in 3 years, what are the odds that none of Ratcliffe, Farabee and/or Lindblom are top 6 LWs?
Same at RW with Allison, Laczynski, O'Brien et al?
And Giroux and Simmonds are the only likely candidates for serious decline at that point.

Provorov (24) - Ghost (27)
Sanheim (24) - Myers (24)
Morin (25) - Friedman (25)
Hagg (25), Hogberg (22), Ginning (20), Kalynuk (23)

We're likely to add more young depth the next two years, whether at the top of the draft or by packaging picks and young forwards

Hart (22), Sandstrom (23), Ustimenko (21), Lyon (28)

Yes, I'm sure at some point Hextall will make his big move, maybe packaging a veteran (to open cap room) and a prospect/draft pick combo for a key addition.
The key will be the tremendous depth this team will have, no more mediocre veterans filling out the bottom 6/3rd pair.


so if you're saying we won't be cup contenders till giroux and oracek are after thoughts why would we keep them , and not get a kings ransom for them now when thir amongst the game's elite. seems silly to hold onto guys and let their value decline when you have put yourself in no realistic position to win.
 

hatcher

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
12,377
4,085
Kelowna BC
Trade Giroux and Voracek for youth and picks before father time catches up to them. Over the next two years the Flyers will be an average team that will be nowhere close to winning a cup.
Yep along ways away so trade the core. There is enough talent now for two playoffs round wins and I'd not there gone.
 

hatcher

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
12,377
4,085
Kelowna BC
so if you're saying we won't be cup contenders till giroux and oracek are after thoughts why would we keep them , and not get a kings ransom for them now when thir amongst the game's elite. seems silly to hold onto guys and let their value decline when you have put yourself in no realistic position to win.
Won't win with them we're to far away.
 

hatcher

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
12,377
4,085
Kelowna BC
id trade giroux and voracek right now for
i guess a similar equivalent would be trade giroux and voracek for shea theodore, brannstrom , glass and suzuki. those are young guys . you plug them into the roster

faraee coots konecny
jvr patrick frost
lindblom glass suzuki
laughton rubstov laberge

provy myers
sanheim theodore
ghost brannstrom

thsi is just me spitballing.
Great age group without the two stars lol
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Because you build to contention, given their contracts, you're not getting a king's ransom for either Giroux or Voracek, and they'll still be valuable role players in 3-4 years, and provide stability in the clubhouse and on the ice.
This team has so much young talent that trading them for draft picks/more young talent is almost futile.
Now if someone made me a great offer for Voracek, an established sniper and draft picks, I might consider it, but more likely in two years.

And the ED in 2020 makes things more complicated, you might just accept losing Voracek if the kids are ready.
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
Because you build to contention, given their contracts, you're not getting a king's ransom for either Giroux or Voracek, and they'll still be valuable role players in 3-4 years, and provide stability in the clubhouse and on the ice.
This team has so much young talent that trading them for draft picks/more young talent is almost futile.
Now if someone made me a great offer for Voracek, an established sniper and draft picks, I might consider it, but more likely in two years.

And the ED in 2020 makes things more complicated, you might just accept losing Voracek if the kids are ready.

you are most definetly getting a ton for two elite , win now players. Do you know how many teams are a number 1 center away from winning? You don't think vegas would have to think twice before a trade offer of obtaining both of the,?

adding more talent is never futile. And you want the age of your team to be all withiin the same window That is what was so special about that hawks team and why they were able to win multiple cups.

you say they will be valuable role players in 3-4 years. GIROUX only has 4 more years left on his contract. By then we will have guys within our prospect pool who are cost controlled that will be even more valuable role players.

If you want to win with elite giroux and alite voracek, you need to make moves now. If you don't then you're basically saying we are goiing to try to win in the future and in that case it would make sense to trade giroux and voracek. If you do neither , then you are lowering your chances of winning a cup.
 

NYCFlyer

Registered User
Nov 23, 2002
1,364
400
NYC
you are most definetly getting a ton for two elite , win now players. Do you know how many teams are a number 1 center away from winning? You don't think vegas would have to think twice before a trade offer of obtaining both of the,?

adding more talent is never futile. And you want the age of your team to be all withiin the same window That is what was so special about that hawks team and why they were able to win multiple cups.

you say they will be valuable role players in 3-4 years. GIROUX only has 4 more years left on his contract. By then we will have guys within our prospect pool who are cost controlled that will be even more valuable role players.

If you want to win with elite giroux and alite voracek, you need to make moves now. If you don't then you're basically saying we are goiing to try to win in the future and in that case it would make sense to trade giroux and voracek. If you do neither , then you are lowering your chances of winning a cup.
Giroux has a NMC which significantly reduces his trade value because he can pick where he wants to go. Don't think trading him will get us what we need. I would consider trading Jake for a top young RHD which is really our only organizational weakness. I don't think we are that far away from contending. Vegas odds have us 25-1 or tied for tenth. Adding a good short term goalie like Lunquist may not cost much, trading a few pieces for a rhd and changing the coaching staff I think would give us a chance to beat Wash, Pitt or TB in a series.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RespectTheProvorov

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
Giroux has a NMC which significantly reduces his trade value because he can pick where he wants to go. Don't think trading him will get us what we need. I would consider trading Jake for a top young RHD which is really our only organizational weakness. I don't think we are that far away from contending. Vegas odds have us 25-1 or tied for tenth. Adding a good short term goalie like Lunquist may not cost much, trading a few pieces for a rhd and changing the coaching staff I think would give us a chance to beat Wash, Pitt or TB in a series.

yeah see thats is what i am thinking. You either have to make short term moves to win now, or make long term moves that involve trading the big two. If we do neither and just sit in the middle we will lose an important opportunity.
 

Cyborg LeClair

Thank You Mr. Snider
Nov 18, 2011
3,935
113
Jurassic Park
ok, then what do you recommend we do in order to win within the next 4 years.
Stay the course honestly. Look at the complexion of our 2010 team.

Our forward depth was strong for all three lines and had a good 4th line for forechecking.
-Right now, with the addition of JVR, if Frost is ready this year or next year we have 3 strong lines for scoring. Our 4th line with Raffl-Laughton-someone should be a pretty decent checking 4th line.

On the 2010 team, we our top 4 defense was very strong with Pronger-Timonen and Coburn-Carle. Our third pair was sheltered garbage.
-Right now we have a very strong top pairing of Provorov-Ghost and within these next 4 years (i predict by next season) Sanheim-Myers could be another strong pairing. Our third pair with Hagg/Morin-whoever could be a decent 3rd pairing that wouldnt need to be sheltered and the stronger they are, the less strong our second pair needs to be to make up for them.

2010 goalies? Leighton/Boucher were just okay enough to keep out most of the easy ones (except in a game 6 OT) and give our strong offense/transition defense a chance to win the games
-we have Elliot/Neuvirth right now. These guys are just as capable as Leighton/Boucher. Within the next 4 years, Hart should be ready in 2 and would be an upgrade, Lyon could be another capable goalie like Elliot.

So basically, in my mind, depending on who our 3rd line center is this season and how capable Sanheim and Myers become, our window could be open as soon as this season or next.

I dont think we need to look at trading the best players we've had in this organization for the last 18 years and I dont think we need to do anything too drastic. I didnt see the JVR signing coming but it fits well with our team. Maybe Hextall makes another move that I dont see coming that also fits the team well and pushes our window wide open. I'd imagine thatd be either a top4 RHD or a strong goalie (i dont see any out there unless Chicago wants to move on from Crawford)

Maybe I'm crazy
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
Stay the course honestly. Look at the complexion of our 2010 team.

Our forward depth was strong for all three lines and had a good 4th line for forechecking.
-Right now, with the addition of JVR, if Frost is ready this year or next year we have 3 strong lines for scoring. Our 4th line with Raffl-Laughton-someone should be a pretty decent checking 4th line.

On the 2010 team, we our top 4 defense was very strong with Pronger-Timonen and Coburn-Carle. Our third pair was sheltered garbage.
-Right now we have a very strong top pairing of Provorov-Ghost and within these next 4 years (i predict by next season) Sanheim-Myers could be another strong pairing. Our third pair with Hagg/Morin-whoever could be a decent 3rd pairing that wouldnt need to be sheltered and the stronger they are, the less strong our second pair needs to be to make up for them.

2010 goalies? Leighton/Boucher were just okay enough to keep out most of the easy ones (except in a game 6 OT) and give our strong offense/transition defense a chance to win the games
-we have Elliot/Neuvirth right now. These guys are just as capable as Leighton/Boucher. Within the next 4 years, Hart should be ready in 2 and would be an upgrade, Lyon could be another capable goalie like Elliot.

So basically, in my mind, depending on who our 3rd line center is this season and how capable Sanheim and Myers become, our window could be open as soon as this season or next.

I dont think we need to look at trading the best players we've had in this organization for the last 18 years and I dont think we need to do anything too drastic. I didnt see the JVR signing coming but it fits well with our team. Maybe Hextall makes another move that I dont see coming that also fits the team well and pushes our window wide open. I'd imagine thatd be either a top4 RHD or a strong goalie (i dont see any out there unless Chicago wants to move on from Crawford)

Maybe I'm crazy

The giroux window is open now, has been for the past 4 years and will continue to be for the next 4. That is what we are discussing here. Therre is incongruency with our current roster to the point that we are not win now and are currently wasting prime years of our two best fowards. After 4 years giroux will be FA and Voracek will have 1 more year.

There is no realistic reason to believe we can win with our current group of goalies. Something there has to change . We have a great prospect in Hart who is at least 1 year away from playing in the NHL. So now we have just shortened that window from 4 years to 3. And that is putting a lot of pressure on a rookie goaltender to have cup winning aspirations, not unheard of but not neccesarilly a formula that has been repeated with much success.
 

Alex K

Registered User
Apr 20, 2016
2,533
3,568
Earth
First, so called "winning window" is a bulls**t, ask Washington. Second, there's no such thing as playoff goalie, Bob is the best goalie in the league, but he turns 30 in september and I don't want us to give him Price's contract, it's ridiculous. Third, not every our prospect will develop as expected, even less will make it to NHL, but the ones who make it, will nurture our roster every year. Our change of generations will be smooth.
2477876.jpg
 

Cyborg LeClair

Thank You Mr. Snider
Nov 18, 2011
3,935
113
Jurassic Park
The giroux window is open now, has been for the past 4 years and will continue to be for the next 4. That is what we are discussing here. Therre is incongruency with our current roster to the point that we are not win now and are currently wasting prime years of our two best fowards. After 4 years giroux will be FA and Voracek will have 1 more year.

There is no realistic reason to believe we can win with our current group of goalies. Something there has to change . We have a great prospect in Hart who is at least 1 year away from playing in the NHL. So now we have just shortened that window from 4 years to 3. And that is putting a lot of pressure on a rookie goaltender to have cup winning aspirations, not unheard of but not neccesarilly a formula that has been repeated with much success.
So you dont think our current roster is good enough and I disagree. I agree that the goalies we have are not great nor what youd think a typical cup winning goalie should be, but I think with strong luck (the key to any cup win) our goalies can go on a strong enough 20 game run.

Honestly, before this season, did anyone expect Fleury to play so lights out? That guy couldnt stop a beachball from 2010-2017
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
So you dont think our current roster is good enough and I disagree. I agree that the goalies we have are not great nor what youd think a typical cup winning goalie should be, but I think with strong luck (the key to any cup win) our goalies can go on a strong enough 20 game run.

Honestly, before this season, did anyone expect Fleury to play so lights out? That guy couldnt stop a beachball from 2010-2017

no i don't think anyone thinks this current lineup is good enough to win. Who is our 3rd line center. Who is our starting goalie. These things right now are holding us back in a major major way
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
19,666
Fairfax, Virginia
First, so called "winning window" is a bulls**t, ask Washington. Second, there's no such thing as playoff goalie, Bob is the best goalie in the league, but he turns 30 in september and I don't want us to give him Price's contract, it's ridiculous. Third, not every our prospect will develop as expected, even less will make it to NHL, but the ones who make it, will nurture our roster every year. Our change of generations will be smooth.
2477876.jpg

washington did not lose ovi and backstrom. They also have a hart trophy finalist goalie.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->