The Never-Too-Early 2019 NHL Entry Draft - Were not picking at 31

[93LEAFS]

Also, he made the Dermott pick after Dubas told him to trade down. He might not even have Dermott if it wasnt for Dubas.
All though Babcock did say they were interested in Aho.

Yeah, it is not like we would be hurting with Travis Konecny though.

 

[Prodigy MayD]

What good picks did he make outside of Sandin? I wouldn't be optimistic about anyone else from that draft. SDA can't score at a high level in the OHL well, so I don't get why people expect him to develop into an NHL goal scorer. Durzi is permanently injured and wasn't good enough for the Marlies at 20. I really don't see anything outside of Sandin to be excited about.

You have to credit Hunter for at least listening to Bergman. He's the CEO of the draft, he gets credit for all the big and small things. Its not like they just gave Bergman a pick, and told him to take whoever they want. He had to weight Bergman's opinion against other scouts, and decide it was the correct pick. Ian Scott is looking like a good pick. Plus, people over simplify the Marner pick, a bunch of places would have taken Hanifin there.

Hollowell looks decent tbh

 

[93LEAFS]

Hollowell looks decent tbh

Hollowell is a 20 year old in the CHL, he should be dominating. If he was good for his age, he'd be in the AHL.

 

[Prodigy MayD]

Hollowell is a 20 year old in the CHL, he should be dominating. If he was good for his age, he'd be in the AHL.

Both Hollowell and Durzi almost made the Marlies out of camp, they would have if they Marlies at the time didn't have a stacked blue line.

 

[93LEAFS]

Both Hollowell and Durzi almost made the Marlies out of camp, they would have if they Marlies at the time didn't have a stacked blue line.

Almost doesn't cut it. They didn't. 20-year-olds generally who are good enough make the AHL regardless of who is in front of them.

 

[stickty111]

Both Hollowell and Durzi almost made the Marlies out of camp, they would have if they Marlies at the time didn't have a stacked blue line.

The people saying Durzi and Hollowell werent good enough for the AHL are simply wrong. Then again, its another excuse to rip on Dubas, and conduct a Hunter admiration session(any NHL team hire him yet?).
They didnt make the Marlies because of the depth on the D core. This is a fact.
This draft looks better then Hunter's in 2016 or 2017.

 

[Prodigy MayD]

Almost doesn't cut it. They didn't. 20-year-olds generally who are good enough make the AHL regardless of who is in front of them.

I mean that is a pretty negative outlook.

It is hard to beat out Sandin/Liljegren/Borgman/Rosen/Subban/LoVerde

It is much better for their development to get 20+ minutes a night in the OHL then 3rd pairing AHL minutes

 

[stickty111]

hunter went 7 for 7 in the 2016 draft. dudfest

edit: missed brooks, he isn't a dud yet 6/7

Yes but he got 2 NHL players and that indicates average.
Being average is clearly good enough and Hunter shouldnt be criticized

 

[93LEAFS]

Yes but he got 2 NHL players and that indicates average.
Being average is clearly good enough and Hunter shouldnt be criticized

Did you see the drafting of the regime he had to overturn? Under the guy we just re-promoted to Director of Player Personnel?

 

[93LEAFS]

I mean that is a pretty negative outlook.

It is hard to beat out Sandin/Liljegren/Borgman/Rosen/Subban/LoVerde

It is much better for their development to get 20+ minutes a night in the OHL then 3rd pairing AHL minutes

They didn't think he was good enough and they signed Subban. They easily could have left a spot open for one of them. They decided post draft to sign Subban. Lets not act like the Marlies are the Preds on D. Those guys are beatable out for spots. You are trying to develop with the AHL team, not field the best possible team.

 

[93LEAFS]

The people saying Durzi and Hollowell werent good enough for the AHL are simply wrong. Then again, its another excuse to rip on Dubas, and conduct a Hunter admiration session(any NHL team hire him yet?).
They didnt make the Marlies because of the depth on the D core. This is a fact.
This draft looks better then Hunter's drafts in 2016 or 2017.

How Durzi is always injured? SDA can't score in the OHL.

There is literally no evidence this draft is better than either. The only thing is, is that its newer so your willing to look at it with bright eyes.

Hunter could have a scouting director job tomorrow. He's waiting for a GM job he wants, if not he can sit back. You really think Arizona would hire Lindsey Hofford over him if given the option?

I don't think anyone outside of Sandin is a better prospect than Ian Scott at the moment. Who from 2018 is even close to Scott as a prospect right now?

 

[stickty111]

A little off-topic, but man is it looking like we overrated Mark Hunter and his 'drafting abilities'.

2016:

3	#72	James Greenway (D)
4	#92	Adam Brooks (F)
4	#101	Keaton Middleton (D)
5	#122	Vladimir Bobylyov (F)
6	#152	Jack Walker (F)
6	#179	Nicolas Mattinen (D)
7	#182	Nikolai Chebykin (F)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Could have drafted:
73rd: Joey Anderson
78th: Frederic Allard
85th: Josh Mahura
100th: Victor Mete
133rd: Max Lajoie
162nd: Jesper Bratt
166th: Matthew Phillips
196th: Dmitri Sokolov

Hunter is really overrated and his drafting here proved it.

 

[93LEAFS]

Hunter is really overrated and his drafting here proved it.

He did much better than prior regimes. I'm not saying he's perfect, but you take anyone with the absolute perfect pick in a spot, they will look bad. I could do that to the Lightning, Anaheim or Blues and they would look bad. I'm still waiting to see how 2018 is so great? The only guy who looks like a likely NHLer is Sandin. Is anyone we drafted in 2018 a better prospect than Ian Scott outside of Sandin? I mean, we could have taken Morozov, Addison, or Madden over Durzi.

 

[Prodigy MayD]

How Durzi is always injured? SDA can't score in the OHL.

There is literally no evidence this draft is better than either. The only thing is, is that its newer so your willing to look at it with bright eyes.

Hunter could have a scouting director job tomorrow. He's waiting for a GM job he wants, if not he can sit back. You really think Arizona would hire Lindsey Hofford over him if given the option?

I don't think anyone outside of Sandin is a better prospect than Ian Scott at the moment. Who from 2018 is even close to Scott as a prospect right now?

I'd argue Woll> Scott....

 

[93LEAFS]

I'd argue Woll> Scott....

I would too, but who picked Woll? But, that was apparently a nothing draft considering we got Grundstrom and Woll.

 

[Walshy7]

He did much better than prior regimes. I'm not saying he's perfect, but you take anyone with the absolute perfect pick in a spot, they will look bad. I could do that to the Lightning, Anaheim or Blues and they would look bad. I'm still waiting to see how 2018 is so great? The only guy who looks like a likely NHLer is Sandin. Is anyone we drafted in 2018 a better prospect than Ian Scott outside of Sandin? I mean, we could have taken Morozov, Addison, or Madden over Durzi.

To which I think I remember you saying we only picked sandin due to soo connection and gave a very negative review of him afterwood. You have a very anti-dubas slant to your postings since he got the job over hunter. I’m not sure if you were all in on hunter or just an irrational dislike of dubas. Could be both I guess.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Hollowell looks decent tbh

So did Nielsen post draft. Let's pump the breaks until they're actually in the NHL before allocating credit to a particular evaluator.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

What good picks did he make outside of Sandin? I wouldn't be optimistic about anyone else from that draft. SDA can't score at a high level in the OHL well, so I don't get why people expect him to develop into an NHL goal scorer. Durzi is permanently injured and wasn't good enough for the Marlies at 20. I really don't see anything outside of Sandin to be excited about.

You have to credit Hunter for at least listening to Bergman. He's the CEO of the draft, he gets credit for all the big and small things. Its not like they just gave Bergman a pick, and told him to take whoever they want. He had to weight Bergman's opinion against other scouts, and decide it was the correct pick. Ian Scott is looking like a good pick. Plus, people over simplify the Marner pick, a bunch of places would have taken Hanifin there.

You also have to consider that drafts can't be compartmentalized so easily when both guys were in decision-making capacities at the same time. There were some picks during the so-called Hunter era that just based on 2019 look to have Dubas' influence (the 2nd and 3rd year eligible guys) and guys which based on not taking them in 2019 look in retrospect like Hunter types (the fridge defensemen).

 

[93LEAFS]

To which I think I remember you saying we only picked sandin due to soo connection and gave a very negative review of him afterwood. You have a very anti-dubas slant to your postings since he got the job over hunter. I’m not sure if you were all in on hunter or just an irrational dislike of dubas. Could be both I guess.

I was fine on Sandin. Don't lie about what I said. I said Hollowell, and the rest of the top 4 picks were due to Dubas just following the OHL and not going out of his comfort zone and listening to the regional guys. I was only annoyed about trading down with St. Louis for Bokk.

If you are going to fault me for things. Make sure its things I said.

People are outraged because we passed on Veleno.

I'm a bit annoyed about trading Bokk to St. Louis, because one, he's who I would have taken, and two, St. Louis generally drafts pretty well. But, once I got past that, I'm fine with Sandin at 29, and have no issues with him over Veleno.

I saw Bokk on a tier of his own at that pick and I wouldn't have traded down a tier for a 3rd rounder. But, I'm still fine with the Sandin pick and really like aspects of his game. Hopefully, he can improve his speed, and get bigger. I hope him getting hit hard on the forecheck or skating into big hits was more caused by making a mid-season adaption to small-ice than actual risk assessment issues, as otherwise he is a very high-IQ player.

I think this is the most negative thing I said about Sandin.

If Kravtsov somehow slips past 20, I'll be amazed. And, if we take Rasmus Sandin over him, I'll be equally pissed off.

The only other thing I remember saying negative happened before we drafted him because I was annoyed about trading down on Bokk, remember this happened before we drafted Sandin. And, that criticism is rooted in nothing but the trade down, and not what you claimed.

We cost ourselves a top 15 talent for a 3rd. Terrible move.

But, post-draft this was my biggest complaint.

Probably, but he may be intent on micro-managing. I'm personally not a big fan of this draft. Everyone but Sandin and Stotts of the first 4 rounds went off the board way too early in my eyes.

Do I like the direction of our scouting department? Not at all from what I've heard from around the OHL this year. They've basically just kept Morrison in Pro-scouting but with a new title, as a cover over Wes Clark, as they didn't want to immediately give him the top gig. But, I give credit to Dubas when he does things that I think are beneficial. I hope he is great, as that means the Leafs win the cup. I'd rather be wrong and the Leafs do well drafting and prove me wrong. I one, just don't see how the 2018 draft proves this at all, and I think people questioning 2016 and 2017 and putting 2018 in a positive light are being somewhat delusional.

So, atleast be fair to what I actually said, instead of claiming what I said or what you remember. I didn't trash Sandin as a bad pick. And, to say I did, would be having a completely different view than what I said.

 

[93LEAFS]

You also have to consider that drafts can't be compartmentalized so easily when both guys were in decision-making capacities at the same time. There were some picks during the so-called Hunter era that just based on 2019 look to have Dubas' influence (the 2nd and 3rd year eligible guys) and guys which based on not taking them in 2019 look in retrospect like Hunter types (the fridge defensemen).

Hunter had pretty much full control over the draft board in 2016 and 2017. So, we will see how that stacks up compared to the future drafts under the new staff.

 

[Walshy7]

I was fine on Sandin. Don't lie about what I said. I said Hollowell, and the rest of the top 4 picks were due to Dubas just following the OHL and not going out of his comfort zone and listening to the regional guys. I was only annoyed about trading down with St. Louis for Bokk.

If you are going to fault me for things. Make sure its things I said.





I think this is the most negative thing I said about Sandin.



The only other thing I remember saying negative happened before we drafted him because I was annoyed about trading down on Bokk, remember this happened before we drafted Sandin. And, that criticism is rooted in nothing but the trade down, and not what you claimed.



But, post-draft this was my biggest complaint.



Do I like the direction of our scouting department? Not at all from what I've heard from around the OHL this year. They've basically just kept Morrison in Pro-scouting but with a new title, as a cover over Wes Clark, as they didn't want to immediately give him the top gig. But, I give credit to Dubas when he does things that I think are beneficial. I hope he is great, as that means the Leafs win the cup. I'd rather be wrong and the Leafs do well drafting and prove me wrong. I one, just don't see how the 2018 draft proves this at all, and I think people questioning 2016 and 2017 and putting 2018 in a positive light are being somewhat delusional.

So, atleast be fair to what I actually said, instead of claiming what I said or what you remember. I didn't trash Sandin as a bad pick. And, to say I did, would be having a completely different view than what I said.

No my mistake i must have attributed another posters post to you just going by memory. Sorry for making you search back all those old posts.

 

[Kiwi]

No my mistake i must have attributed another posters post to you just going by memory. Sorry for making you search back all those old posts.

Might have been me Walshy, I wasn't against the Sandin pick but I did say I'd have taken Bokk

Sandin's propensity for taking hits worried me as well, i was concerned about how he was going to stay fit if that continued to happen

 

[93LEAFS]

No my mistake i must have attributed another posters post to you just going by memory. Sorry for making you search back all those old posts.

Look, I get I've said negative things about Dubas, and have questioned the direction of his scouting hires and whether he was the right choice. I still stand by what I said, and as stated, I hope to be proven wrong. But, I also don't take cheap shots. I generally set out standards and parameters of how I'll judge things, and judge by that merit. For example, I said at the draft, I felt that if we are drafting overagers as high as we did, that they should be immediately AHL ready. Neither were. That isn't an attempt to make Dubas look bad, that is just the expectation I have if we are going to take someone like Durzi. I think any 2nd rounder by the time they are 20 should be ready to be playing professional hockey. Yes, Marlies have depth, but its a development league, you create a spot for him if he's good enough. He shouldn't be blocked by guys like Jordan Subban or Loverde who we don't have expectations for, even if they are better in the short term. I'll give him credit when he signs a John Tavares, because similar to the Marner pick (which people say anyone can do, although a lot would have chosen Hanafin, and to a lesser extent Matthews over Laine) because at the end of the day Dubas did it. We don't get an alternative universe, Dubas got JT to sign, regardless of what tools he may have had in his favor.

I didn't say anything negative about Dubas when it was easiest, which was the Nylander hold out? You know why? Because, I respected his position, and predicament. If the cost of signing JT was a Nylander hold-out and Nylander had an unreasonable ask, I'm not going to bash a guy for that. Now, I question some of the hires he's made, and hopefully, they prove me wrong (as being proved right, will probably piss me off, as I care way more about Leafs winning than being right on an online message board).

Look, I may disagree with Dubas and some of the things he does, but I don't think I'm overly unfair to him.

 

[stickty111]

Might have been me Walshy, I wasn't against the Sandin pick but I did say I'd have taken Bokk

Sandin's propensity for taking hits worried me as well, i was concerned about how he was going to stay fit if that continued to happen

Sandin was one player I didnt want. Happy to be wrong so far.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think what sucks about last years draft is RIGHT after we picked Durzi, there was just a giant run on guys I wanted more.

Addison
Olofsson
Hallander
Morozov
Wise (hasn't done that well)

Kind of hoped Madden and Regula was there for our 3rd rounder

Gruden went early 4th, so no chance.

Happy with Kral, would have even take him in the 4th.

6th and 7th, had no clue, at allll. I just like going NCAA/Euro with those picks generally, more time is a good thing.

I think the only thing that looks kind of sketch with Hunters' drafting were the Korshkov and Rasanen picks. I was expecting so many different names when both were picked. I remember literally saying "who????" when we took Korshkov.

I don't have anything against either regime yet. I want to see how the picks progress in the next 1-3 years (depending on which year of draft class we're talking). Kind of funny though, seems like I have to reach a few picks with the players I like