The Myth of John Tavares and Unmet Potential - by an Isles Fan

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  1. nbwingsfan

    nbwingsfan Registered User

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    Check the Lafrenière thread in the prospect section... Tavares is being called not an elite player and a below average 1st overall pick by one poster :laugh:

    Anyways, the only debatable one is potential, as after his 16yo season he was viewed as a better prospect than Crosby to some, but that hype did die a little after he stalled at ages 17/18.
     
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  2. LeapOnOver

    LeapOnOver Mackenzie is a hack!

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    I don't remember him ever being compared to Gretzky. In fact, I remember there being some tiny rumblings just before the draft that his skating was sub par. I clearly remember watching his first press conference after being drafted and feeling like he wasn't all that genuine. Then he began working like a horse on any flaws he had every offseason (first was skating) and getting better every year after suffering some inconsistency early on. Then he signed the team friendly contract and I thought, "Wow, he is genuine. This is great!" Looking back, my first instinct about him was spot on, but guy was a work horse and had laser focus on trying to be the best hockey player. Anybody saying he didn't reach his ceiling is crazy, because he put 500% effort to get there. It's on them for misrepresenting his ceiling. If there is anybody in the NHL I can guarantee plays up to his potential, it's 91.

    Not a fan of him as a human being. I prefer honesty and candor. But as a hockey player, the effort was there every year except the last in an Islander's uniform.
     
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  3. aufheben

    aufheben as if

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    I mean the Tavares hype was absolutely insane from what I remember.
     
  4. aufheben

    aufheben as if

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    Mark Streit scored 56/49/47 points as an Islander. Moulson and Okposo were both 1st liners, as is Anders Lee. Actually the Islanders finished top-10 in GF 5/6 seasons between 2012-18. It's not nearly as abysmal as people are implying.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  5. Pyrophorus

    Pyrophorus Registered User

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    An article written 5 days ago by LeBrun, talked about how AM and Babcock has another face-to-face.
    AM was very forthright, in wanting to be there, help the team and others. The language was so strong, I
    think it will be AM...and I was leaning to Rielly. JT like Marleau will take an A.
     
  6. Pyrophorus

    Pyrophorus Registered User

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    It was, I never saw that Stammers' was higher the year before.
    People were waiting for JT
     
  7. Pyrophorus

    Pyrophorus Registered User

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    ...and at 14, when he got exceptional status in the O
     
  8. Treebeard

    Treebeard Registered User

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    You're not wrong. I was caught off guard, but Claude's stats were incredible. What a player. I would say he only had slightly more help, but he also lacked the top end teammates some of the others had near the top.
     
  9. Treebeard

    Treebeard Registered User

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    It certainly is abysmal. You can make a statement like "Moulsen and Okposo were both 1st liners", but when you actually look at the stats, and you compare them to other elite players of the decade, they are easily the worst teammates any of the players near the top had beside Claude Giroux.

    I did an analysis earlier against Stamkos. In 10 years, John only ever had two teammates score more than 70 points....10 years, only two! Both of those were under Weight's "Don't worry about our end" scheme, and one of them (Barzal) soaked up easier minutes on another line.

    Find someone in the top 10 of the decade who had worse. I haven't looked at them all but I would be shocked if any of them had such a complete dearth of talent. John mostly played with 2nd/3rd line wingers and 2nd pairing defenders who were pushed up the line up out of desperation.
     
  10. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier NHL FAN

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    Greatest player to be beaten and outperformed by Bergeron head to head last year. Take away his empty net goal in game 1 and a loan goal in a lopsided game 7. He was a total non factor. Somewhere the truth lies here for him as a player. Some players are winners, and there are losers.
     
  11. X66

    X66 114-110

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    Lol just stop.
     
  12. King In The North

    King In The North Sean Bennett

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    Only Isles fans would ever make those bullet points.
     
  13. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier NHL FAN

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    Why? Because it was the truth. BTW, Bergeron does not have the Tavares career stats, but there is no doubt he is the better player, and he showed it head to head dominating Tavares to a playoff series win. Isn't this the crux of the thread? Where Tavares lies as a player. This tells one all they need to know where.
     
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  14. 1865

    1865 Fired Dave Hakstol

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    Just me who hasn't heard much of this and don't consider any to be true?
     
  15. AwesomeMatthews

    AwesomeMatthews #34

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    This isn't even a John Tavares thread, it's just another Toronto, anti-Toronto thread. Nothing of any importance has been said in 5+ pages.
     
  16. sparxx87

    sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    If I take away Parise tying goal and Crosby golden goal, that was a pretty mediocre olympics, too.

    I can pretend a lot of things didn’t happen and that’ll change the perception in some instances... but why?

    ... I can only think of one reason why someone would do that.
     
  17. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    Here's one, not saying he will be but talks about the label, and I don't care to dig up more. There are always rumblings the closer you get to the draft about maybe the #1 pick will be someone different, we saw the same thing this year, we saw the same thing in previous years as well. Never, in any universe, were the Islanders picking anyone but Tavares in that draft. Writers and pundits need eyeballs so they stir it up when it gets closer to the draft.

    Is Tavares the Next Great One?
     
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  18. HFBS

    HFBS Noted Troublemaker

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    This. islander fans are disappointed in their organization, not Tavares. They loved him until he left.
     
  19. Kevin27nyi

    Kevin27nyi Trotz <3

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    They’re just not sexy names.
     
  20. Treebeard

    Treebeard Registered User

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    Props for finding an article a couple months after his 17th birthday before he got into the meat of his OHL season :D
     
  21. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier NHL FAN

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    Excellent observation. Streit put up very good numbers as an Islander. Even Grabner was able to score 34 goals in 76 games as an Islander in the 2010-11 season. Which was more than Tavares at 29. To me the final year Tavares was on the Island was telling, he was outscored by Barzal as a rookie. Both were surrounded by the same talent. The narrative that Tavares was not surrounded by great talent was pretty much a misnomer when he went to the Leafs and he only had 4 more pts than the year before. That again is pretty telling.
     
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  22. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    25 games into the OHL season, I really cherry picked the article. Keep moving those goal posts.
     
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  23. sparxx87

    sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    What do you take of Barzal coming back with a 60 point season without the insulation of John Tavares?

    Did Grabner play with Tavares? I don’t think he did.

    How are they surrounded with the same talent when they have different wingers?

    Would it be fair to say that Tavares is consistent and will produce good numbers regardless of linemates or competition? ... and that Barzal on the other hand, feasted on lesser competition as a rookie and got a rude awakening once he became the number 1?
     
  24. X66

    X66 114-110

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    I don't know, there are a lot of things to talk about in that playoff series, but not made up things like this.

    Bergeron had 2 points at even strength, the rest of his points came on the PP(away from Tavares).

    Tavares, Marchand and Pastrnak all had 4 points each at even strength.

    I think 10/10 times teams would accept that going into a series, which would say Tavares and company did an excellent job.

    The real damage came on the PP, where again, Tavares didn't play.

    That also factors in going against McAvoy and Chara, it is a team game after all.

    So yeah, a lot of things to talk about, just not made up stuff.

    Go back and read through the Bruins game threads, they weren't thrilled with how the team was playing at even strength, including that top line.
     
  25. FourRings

    FourRings Registered User

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    Tavares didn’t have much help on the Island; especially in the earlier years. He never got a dynamic winger to pair with him and that was a major blunder by Snow.
     

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