Post-Game Talk: THE MIGHTY SABRES - 4, The Puny Penguins - 1

[Dying Alive]

I think it's honestly more indicative of your schedule/division (back when we had divisional schedules) than your team's post-season worthiness. Otherwise, you'd have those insane Gretzky-led Oilers teams with untouchable winning streaks.

Maybe they found it hard to play with that level of emotion every game?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Maybe they found it hard to play with that level of emotion every game?

Nah, Paul Coffey was heart-and-soul 130%-every-shift kinda player...

 

[Coastal Kev]

I still don't like the Morrow v Morrow trade. I'm not sure what Morrow brings to this team this year and in the future. And we gave up a potential stud for very little in return. Tonight, Morrow spent more time flopping on the ice, not good.

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

breaking up the best line in hockey to try bennett and iggy? IDK. I can see iggy. BB....Meh come playoffs. As mind boggling as it is, sid looks best when duper is there with him.

I like the lines as they are but if i tried any change it would be:

Dupes Crosby Kunitz
BB Malkin Neal
Morrow Sutter Iggy
Cooke Vitale Kennedy

I know putting iggy on the 3rd line would be sacrilege. But, he and neal are both shooters, even if different kinds. I like leaving them together because it could make for an unstoppable force, and an angry playoff Geno with an amped up Iginla could be so sweet to see.

However, I think BB plays at a good speed for Malkin and Neal and has shown strong IQ to fit in and play well. If he can allow Geno and Neal to produce per usual, our first line is already studly, and i would make the bold claim that a 3rd of Morrow Sutter Iggy is better than Staal's old trio.

Talk about a matchup nightmare.

Add in that 4th line which would be fast, chippy, and similarly productive to a 3rd line and i like it even more.

Just my $.02

As for last nights game it was a stinker. Murray was the only guy i really loved. I want him resigned badly. Would also liked to have seen someone drop the gloves when down 3-1 to give the team a spark and keep the streak alive.

Also. DESPRES HIT WAS CLEAN. Guy touches puck and got rocked by a clean shoulder through chest hit. Despres did not finish him with arms up for extra force, and hit a player in a known high traffic area. Sometimes in hockey guys get nailed. Its not always a penalty because it looks painful. SIMON IS A TRUCK

Sorry to keep going but i am now thinking a D with Despres, Murray, Orpick, and Engo/Bortuzzo would be fearsome. If without Brooks, i like Bortuzzo to be a bottom pairing guy next year, save the cap space on brooks.

Martin, Letang, Nisky, Murray, Engo, Eaton, Borts. Good balance of fast, smart, physical and pure punishment.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I still don't like the Morrow v Morrow trade. I'm not sure what Morrow brings to this team this year and in the future. And we gave up a potential stud for very little in return. Tonight, Morrow spent more time flopping on the ice, not good.

I told myself that I wouldn't care about what B. Morrow did until the playoffs started, but it's hard to overlook the fact that I don't even notice him out there. He had a good game with Malkin against the mediocre Jets, but I'm not sold. I'm just hoping he's one of those guys that's built for the playoffs, like a Ryan Smyth who is kinda sluggish but just puts it all out there in the postseason.

It's funny though. If he scores one big goal in one playoff game we'll be glad we got him. Asham basically proved his worth in the Tampa series, if only for that one year.

As for J. Morrow, people need to get over it. I cannot stress enough the fact that Shero would not have made this move is Joe was a "potential stud". All of our D prospects are severely overrated by the Pittsburgh media until proven otherwise. Remember when Joe supposedly almost made the team 2 years ago? Please. Or when Dumoulin supposedly had a shot at making the team this year and wasn't even invited to camp? He's currently -12 in WBS this year by the way. You can't believe anything you hear anymore when it's coming from the Pens propoganda machine.

 

[plaidchuck]

Meh, we were bound to lose sometime. Maybe now we can get back into playoff mode.

For the record, people do realize that this streak is tied for the 2nd longest in NHL history, right?

Yeah I think everyone was hoping to break the record to "one-up" Chicago.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Yeah, you have to look at it like this. Jeffery's game matches malkins and Tk's matches sid.... yeah like 1000x worse, but the styles they play.

When Malkin was out, jeffery played center not TK. When sid's out they have TK not jeffery. The coaches line of thinking makes sense to me, whether it works out or not we'll see.

Please tell me you forgot the . I couldn't disagree with you more. Comparing the games of a player who uses elite vision, creativity, and skill to look for the best available play, especially if it gets his teammates involved, to the myopic, shoot-first think later mentality that is Tyler Kennedy? So much wrong with that. Even Tyler Kennedy would disagree with you. He'd be all like, "derrrrr I gotta shoot derrrrr."

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah I think everyone was hoping to break the record to "one-up" Chicago.

Winning the Cup would kinda do that too. Just sayin'.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This looked like one of those games where everything went wrong and it snowballed. Buffalo came to play and hopefully it was another lesson about details and discipline. We will see how things go in the back to backs agt the Rags. Teams coming off winning streaks always seem to hit a downward spiral for a bit when they finally lose, so hopefully the Pens can avoid this.

Just a few thoughts from the game...

- TK is only in the lineup because he won a cup with DB and is capable of scoring a big goal at anytime. I'm not going to rag on his play with the first line (it speaks for itself), but I have to point out yet another lapse in judgement in his own zone (which is why I'm not really ok with him on the fourth line either). He had the puck behind his own goal line in a 2-1 game and blindly threw it through the middle of the ice. It was as beautiful a centering feed as you will ever see, but luckily the Sabres sticks were tied up.

- Malkin needs to be forced into taking 100 draws after every practice until he improves in game situations. He isn't bearing down and half the time it looks like he is half assing it. He needs to understand that his current line is capable of dominating possession, but it starts with him winning draws. Being good at draws isn't some magical talent. It's about practice, attention to detail and studying the tendencies of your opponents. This has gone on for too many years with Malkin, seriously.

- Not really game related, but the PG mentioned again about BB potentially being called up today. If there was any justice, he would be in over TK. He has just as many points in half as many games, but in reality it is because of his play in his own end that I prefer him over TK.

 

[plaidchuck]

Winning the Cup would kinda do that too. Just sayin'.

Definitely. Just seems like everyone wants something to hang on to in case that doesn't happen i.e. awards for Crosby, winning the div/pres trophy, etc.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This looked like one of those games where everything went wrong and it snowballed. Buffalo came to play and hopefully it was another lesson about details and discipline. We will see how things go in the back to backs agt the Rags. Teams coming off winning streaks always seem to hit a downward spiral for a bit when they finally lose, so hopefully the Pens can avoid this.

Just a few thoughts from the game...

- TK is only in the lineup because he won a cup with DB and is capable of scoring a big goal at anytime. I'm not going to rag on his play with the first line (it speaks for itself), but I have to point out yet another lapse in judgement in his own zone (which is why I'm not really ok with him on the fourth line either). He had the puck behind his own goal line in a 2-1 game and blindly threw it through the middle of the ice. It was as beautiful a centering feed as you will ever see, but luckily the Sabres sticks were tied up.

- Malkin needs to be forced into taking 100 draws after every practice until he improves in game situations. He isn't bearing down and half the time it looks like he is half assing it. He needs to understand that his current line is capable of dominating possession, but it starts with him winning draws. Being good at draws isn't some magical talent. It's about practice, attention to detail and studying the tendencies of your opponents. This has gone on for too many years with Malkin, seriously.

- Not really game related, but the PG mentioned again about BB potentially being called up today. If there was any justice, he would be in over TK. He has just as many points in half as many games, but in reality it is because of his play in his own end that I prefer him over TK.

I hope Bylsma proves me very wrong and plays Bennett and/or Vitale down the stretch and into the playoffs. It would be such a big move for him to give young guys that chance. I just can't see it happening. With a healthy roster I expect all three of Bennet, Vitale and Despres out of the line-up. Hell, Vitale can't even make the cut with an injured roster. Disco would rather only dress 3 centers.

 

[plaidchuck]

- Malkin needs to be forced into taking 100 draws after every practice until he improves in game situations. He isn't bearing down and half the time it looks like he is half assing it. He needs to understand that his current line is capable of dominating possession, but it starts with him winning draws. Being good at draws isn't some magical talent. It's about practice, attention to detail and studying the tendencies of your opponents. This has gone on for too many years with Malkin, seriously.

Definitely this. In today's game as a Center you have to be at least average on faceoffs. I know he's the takeaway king and all but..

 

[AquaticBirdman]

i really can not stand james neal.

the guy is a huge leach, cheecho redux. he excels at finding soft spots in defenses and has a great shot, but otherwise he doesn't bring anything aside from the very rare night where he decides to play physical. without malkin continually feeding him golden opportunities, he's worthless. poor efforts, not engaged physically, and consistently stupid selfish penalties.

selfish overrated leach.

Did you feel this way last season when he potted 40+ goals and 80+ points? He has a much better overall game than Cheechoo.

+Iginla
+Fleury
+Murray

-PP
-Vokoun
-Team defense
-Lack of discipline and taking costly penalties

 

[vodeni]

This looked like one of those games where everything went wrong and it snowballed. Buffalo came to play and hopefully it was another lesson about details and discipline. We will see how things go in the back to backs agt the Rags. Teams coming off winning streaks always seem to hit a downward spiral for a bit when they finally lose, so hopefully the Pens can avoid this.

Just a few thoughts from the game...

- TK is only in the lineup because he won a cup with DB and is capable of scoring a big goal at anytime. I'm not going to rag on his play with the first line (it speaks for itself), but I have to point out yet another lapse in judgement in his own zone (which is why I'm not really ok with him on the fourth line either). He had the puck behind his own goal line in a 2-1 game and blindly threw it through the middle of the ice. It was as beautiful a centering feed as you will ever see, but luckily the Sabres sticks were tied up.

- Malkin needs to be forced into taking 100 draws after every practice until he improves in game situations. He isn't bearing down and half the time it looks like he is half assing it. He needs to understand that his current line is capable of dominating possession, but it starts with him winning draws. Being good at draws isn't some magical talent. It's about practice, attention to detail and studying the tendencies of your opponents. This has gone on for too many years with Malkin, seriously.

- Not really game related, but the PG mentioned again about BB potentially being called up today. If there was any justice, he would be in over TK. He has just as many points in half as many games, but in reality it is because of his play in his own end that I prefer him over TK.

I've never brought this up, but to my layman eye he doesn't even try on f-offs. He is standing up, no positioning whatsoever, just seems totally not interested in winninh them. Now I have no clue what the proper technics are for face-offs but i can tell it ain't one he is using it. Does he have to take face-offs. Obviously it is somewhat bothersome for him. The only time he is succesful is when he has that set play with neal and you can tell he bends down a bit and squeeze that stick harder, any other time he doesn't seem to care...

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I hope Bylsma proves me very wrong and plays Bennett and/or Vitale down the stretch and into the playoffs. It would be such a big move for him to give young guys that chance. I just can't see it happening. With a healthy roster I expect all three of Bennet, Vitale and Despres out of the line-up. Hell, Vitale can't even make the cut with an injured roster. Disco would rather only dress 3 centers.

It still baffles me long nothing else how he can continue to keep Vitale out of the lineup. I really wish a reporter would toss that question out to him one day during one of his pressers. Why would you keep a guy who is a) an absolute workhorse, b) stellar in the faceoff circle, and c) one of the fastest skaters on the team in favor of a useless slug like Glass that brings absolutely NOTHING to the lineup.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Definitely this. In today's game as a Center you have to be at least average on faceoffs. I know he's the takeaway king and all but..

every center can be at least average at faceoffs if and only if every center in the league is exactly 50% at faceoffs. Otherwise, someone will be below average.

not that I disagree that geno should get better. I'm just saying is all

seriously, I remember an NBC game where the announcers asked the stats guys to find the average faceoff percentage across the league. They were absolutely shocked at how fast they found it and that it was exactly 50%. True story. I died a little that day.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Sounds like Martin might be back for round one after they updated his timetable. I just hope we don't get last year's Martin.

This game had an odd, stinky feel to it, even before the shorty. Pens tied it, so in the end you can't call it a momentum switcher. It was just one of those games where nothing went right, and it was too late to recover.

Give credit to Buffalo as well. They came into this game with a "nothing to lose" attitude and went balls to the wall from the opening faceoff. Miller made some HUGE saves early on as well.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

- TK is only in the lineup because he won a cup with DB and is capable of scoring a big goal at anytime. I'm not going to rag on his play with the first line (it speaks for itself), but I have to point out yet another lapse in judgement in his own zone (which is why I'm not really ok with him on the fourth line either). He had the puck behind his own goal line in a 2-1 game and blindly threw it through the middle of the ice. It was as beautiful a centering feed as you will ever see, but luckily the Sabres sticks were tied up.

And that's being generous. In the 1st period when he got the puck around the faceoff dot with space to shoot, held it, then finally shot only to have it blocked it was like seeing an old friend.

 

[IcedCapp]

I hope Bylsma proves me very wrong and plays Bennett and/or Vitale down the stretch and into the playoffs. It would be such a big move for him to give young guys that chance. I just can't see it happening. With a healthy roster I expect all three of Bennet, Vitale and Despres out of the line-up. Hell, Vitale can't even make the cut with an injured roster. Disco would rather only dress 3 centers.

Here's what I don't understand: I get that Bennett is a rookie, I get that the playoffs are a different animal and that you just can't predict how he'd do in the post-season. But the promotion of Bennett to the 2nd line CHANGED EVERYTHING. It became more effective in all 3 zones, Neal and Malkin immediately became +/-even after being huge -'s all year. They were getting dangerous, sustain O-zone pressure. And he gets rewarded with them making multiple trades to try to fill that position? I don't remember one game when he was on the 2nd line where he (or the line) was bad. And he gets rewarded with not just a demotion, but basically out of the lineup. It just boggles the mind. (I'm sure someone will come along and condescend about his size or age or experience. I'd rather have a good rookie than a ****** Tyler Kennedy or Tanner Glass)

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

every center can be at least average at faceoffs if and only if every center in the league is exactly 50% at faceoffs. Otherwise, someone will be below average.

not that I disagree that geno should get better. I'm just saying is all

seriously, I remember an NBC game where the announcers asked the stats guys to find the average faceoff percentage across the league. They were absolutely shocked at how fast they found it and that it was exactly 50%. True story. I died a little that day.

I'm with Ron Francis on faceoffs. The stat as a general measuring stick is far too broad and more useless than useful. Anything between the blue lines it doesn't matter much if you win it. Malkin is still pretty bad at them, but he must be winning some key ones since Neal is always hammering pucks off the faceoff from that offensive circle. Plus we know damn well if he was losing key defensive faceoffs that led to goals it would be talked about ad nauseum on this board, and I haven't heard a peep in that regard.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I hope Bylsma proves me very wrong and plays Bennett and/or Vitale down the stretch and into the playoffs. It would be such a big move for him to give young guys that chance. I just can't see it happening. With a healthy roster I expect all three of Bennet, Vitale and Despres out of the line-up. Hell, Vitale can't even make the cut with an injured roster. Disco would rather only dress 3 centers.

I know it is highly unlikely, but the reality is BB is more responsible in his own end. That's exactly why I want him in over TK, but like we both know, it probably isn't going to happen.

I've never brought this up, but to my layman eye he doesn't even try on f-offs. He is standing up, no positioning whatsoever, just seems totally not interested in winninh them. Now I have no clue what the proper technics are for face-offs but i can tell it ain't one he is using it. Does he have to take face-offs. Obviously it is somewhat bothersome for him. The only time he is succesful is when he has that set play with neal and you can tell he bends down a bit and squeeze that stick harder, any other time he doesn't seem to care...

He has a lazy approach to face offs and it is getting tiresome. I can't remember the last superstar pivot who was so atrocious and lackluster in the dot. The question in my mind is, has DB been on his case about it or is he just letting it slide? It's so frustrating to watch... I literally want to sock Malkin in the head when I see his lazy face off attempts.

Either DB message isn't getting through or he isn't pushing him hard enough to improve. Either way, he needs to get his message across loud and clear before the playoffs. This HAS to be corrected..

And that's being generous. In the 1st period when he got the puck around the faceoff dot with space to shoot, held it, then finally shot only to have it blocked it was like seeing an old friend.

No one with an ounce of understanding about this game could defend TK being played over a responsible player like BB. But like I said, he shoots so much he is bound to score a big goal once in awhile, so that is why he is kept in.

I don't want to nitpick, I just know its important to have responsible players on the ice during the playoffs and I trust BB much more than TK. TK just plays brain dead way too often...

 

[Ogrezilla]

Here's what I don't understand: I get that Bennett is a rookie, I get that the playoffs are a different animal and that you just can't predict how he'd do in the post-season. But the promotion of Bennett to the 2nd line CHANGED EVERYTHING. It became more effective in all 3 zones, Neal and Malkin immediately became +/-even after being huge -'s all year. They were getting dangerous, sustain O-zone pressure. And he gets rewarded with them making multiple trades to try to fill that position? I don't remember one game when he was on the 2nd line where he (or the line) was bad. And he gets rewarded with not just a demotion, but basically out of the lineup. It just boggles the mind. (I'm sure someone will come along and condescend about his size or age or experience. I'd rather have a good rookie than a ****** Tyler Kennedy or Tanner Glass)

Honestly, I can see bringing someone in just because of the unknowns. But he can play in the bottom 6 just fine. His work ethic and defense is better than several of our wingers who are still playing. And he'd be great to have for those occasional geno/sid double shifts in the lower lines. As KIRK even likes to mention, he'd be a nice fall back to spell Morrow a few shifts a game or to go out with Sid after Dupuis gets done killing a penalty.

Basically, he is one of our 8 best wingers. The guys behind him have enough experience and play a simple enough game that they could sit for the next 6 weeks and jump in at a moments notice without missing much of anything in case he does have trouble in the playoffs. But he's young and he won't play.

I'm with Ron Francis on faceoffs. The stat as a general measuring stick is far too broad and more useless than useful. Anything between the blue lines it doesn't matter much if you win it. Malkin is still pretty bad at them, but he must be winning some key ones since Neal is always hammering pucks off the faceoff from that offensive circle. Plus we know damn well if he was losing key defensive faceoffs that led to goals it would be talked about ad nauseum on this board, and I haven't heard a peep in that regard.

I would love to see his stats separated by left and right circles. He is much better on his strong side. He basically doesn't try on his weak side. And Disco does everything he can to keep him away from defensive zone faceoffs.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

every center can be at least average at faceoffs if and only if every center in the league is exactly 50% at faceoffs. Otherwise, someone will be below average.

not that I disagree that geno should get better. I'm just saying is all

seriously, I remember an NBC game where the announcers asked the stats guys to find the average faceoff percentage across the league. They were absolutely shocked at how fast they found it and that it was exactly 50%. True story. I died a little that day.

Just because other teams float in the 49-51 range, doesn't mean a coach should accept that. Look at the Bruins. Look at Detroit when they beat the Pens.

The biggest key to the Pens losing the cup and winning it, was face offs. Detroit owned them in the dot in '08 and they were generating sustained pressure because of it. The Pens dramatically improved in the dot the next season and it had a big hand in swinging the Detroit series the Pens way.

I'm 100% sure if the Pens didn't improve their face offs that season, they would of lost yet again to Det.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Just because other teams float in the 49-51 range, doesn't mean a coach should accept that. Look at the Bruins. Look at Detroit when they beat the Pens.

The biggest key to the Pens losing the cup and winning it, was face offs. Detroit owned them in the dot in '08 and they were generating sustained pressure because of it. The Pens dramatically improved in the dot the next season and it had a big hand in swinging the Detroit series the Pens way.

I'm 100% sure if the Pens didn't improve their face offs that season, they would of lost yet again to Det.

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying mathematically, the average across the league will always be exactly 50%. Anything else is literally impossible. As a math person, it boggles my mind that professional analysts don't understand that. For every team at 55%, there have to be teams giving up that 5%. Either one at 45%, or two to 47.5%, 5 at 49%, etc.

 

[MtlPenFan]

This looked like one of those games where everything went wrong and it snowballed. Buffalo came to play and hopefully it was another lesson about details and discipline. We will see how things go in the back to backs agt the Rags. Teams coming off winning streaks always seem to hit a downward spiral for a bit when they finally lose, so hopefully the Pens can avoid this.

Just a few thoughts from the game...

- TK is only in the lineup because he won a cup with DB and is capable of scoring a big goal at anytime. I'm not going to rag on his play with the first line (it speaks for itself), but I have to point out yet another lapse in judgement in his own zone (which is why I'm not really ok with him on the fourth line either). He had the puck behind his own goal line in a 2-1 game and blindly threw it through the middle of the ice. It was as beautiful a centering feed as you will ever see, but luckily the Sabres sticks were tied up.

- Malkin needs to be forced into taking 100 draws after every practice until he improves in game situations. He isn't bearing down and half the time it looks like he is half assing it. He needs to understand that his current line is capable of dominating possession, but it starts with him winning draws. Being good at draws isn't some magical talent. It's about practice, attention to detail and studying the tendencies of your opponents. This has gone on for too many years with Malkin, seriously.

- Not really game related, but the PG mentioned again about BB potentially being called up today. If there was any justice, he would be in over TK. He has just as many points in half as many games, but in reality it is because of his play in his own end that I prefer him over TK.

You're dead on about Malkin. I know KIRK has a point about "feeding the beast" and tossing Malkin out there as often as possible, but there's a reason why Sid is out there on all the important draws. It's not even that Geno loses them, but they way he loses them. It looks like he doesn't even want to be bothered.

I disagree with the TK play in front of the net (even though I agree with the rest). That was almost 100% on Orpik after watching the replay. The boards were covered, so TK just put it up the middle expecting Orpik to be ready for the pass. He wasn't.