The Management Thread | White Hole Edition

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4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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Spencer’s “accidental” leak feels perfectly timed.

2 weeks later and the guy who got his dads job is facing the guillotine.
 
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Snatcher Demko

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Easily. 2018 Linden would never have signed Beagle, Roussel, Ferland or Myers, and might have been smart enough to hold the line on a 1st round pick for Miller. Or even if he didn't, they would have gone into this season with a TON of cap space - probably in a position to do something similar to what Montreal did. Plausibly could have added Pietrangelo, Hall, Toffoli while keeping Markstrom, Stecher, on Tanev. Plus maybe a few more prospects by weaponizing cap space/keeping picks over the last two seasons.

One of the things that is poorly understood and under-reported by the general Canucks media is just how badly the GM effed up considering all the moves we could have made to weaponize cap space and then the expansion draft.

For a team that should have been rebuilding and had a ton of cap space - the expansion draft should have been a game changer.
 

Snatcher Demko

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During the 2016 memorial cup, recall Tkachuk having a bigger impact than Juolevi as he also scored the cup winning goal that year. He was belligerent and an effective force who scored the most goals for the Knights during those playoffs.

What also concerned me at the time was that Mete was getting just as much deployment and being leaned on as much if not more than Juolevi if I remember correctly which also gave me a bit of pause?

However I did have Olli ahead of both Sergachev and Chychrun at the time but yeah Tkachuk was the clear favorite at #5. Also had Keller ahead of Juolevi but still had him in the top 10.

Still believe Benning had the postion (role of power winger) covered with the drafting of Jake the year prior which steered him away from Tkachuk.


This is exactly right - having Virtanen and Boeser in the system was the difference.

I really don't blame Benning for taking Juolevi - he was generally considered a top 10 prospect with a high floor. Every GM has gaffes and Benning has obviously made hits as well (Boeser, Hog, Gaudette). I also think FA had a hand in the Virtanen pick. I also think the Canucks drafting and scouting has improved since then.

With Benning the major problem with drafting (IMO) has always been the propensity to trade picks (for dog shit) and not having nearly as many of them as we needed. And not trading vets for picks when necessary.
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
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Let's not get carried away here, Linden signed Benning, who signed Weisbrod.
And left amicably when they continued down Bennings garden path. Look at the impacts that the 2018 and 2019 offseason are causing right now.

Winnipeg model doesn’t look so bad.
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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You could see from his quoted statements in 2014 to 2016 that Linden was as arrogant and ignorant as Weisbrod and Benning.

But unlike them, I believe he has more character. By 2017, he had set aside his arrogance, and begun to address his ignorance - he began approaching others around the league to get an outsider view on wtf was wrong with the Canucks org/approach/(lack of)planning/(lack of)strategy.

Moves were made in line with that, that began to unwind the shitshow of those first few Linden/Weisbrod/Benning years.

And then Linden is gone, and the Weisbrod/Benning shitshow hits the gas pedal.

I believe that if Linden stays in 2018 and boots the Weisbrod/Benning shitshow, we may have had cap space this past year to take advantage of the situation that unfolded, and be in a position to contend while Petey and Hughes were RFA, alongside Marky and Tanev and Stecher.

But that ship sailed in 2018, full steam ahead into a cliff, then burst into flames and exploded, hurling the charred hulk back to sink into the murky depths of the bottomless ocean, never hitting bottom as a leviathan swallows it whole, only to spit out the shattered remains to be gnawed upon by plankton.

John Weisbrod and Jim Benning.

The Lost Years.

2014 Linden was a naive management newby. And I think thought the job would be easy. Was completely out of hockey for 7 years. Was super impressed that Jim Benning could remember goals that specific prospects scored. Thought Jim Benning drafted the core in Boston. Didn't have a clue what he was doing.

But, unlike Benning, Linden wasn't stupid. And by 2017-18 he had figured a few things out. Figured out that Benning wasn't exactly great. Wanted to fire Weisbrod. Was asking other GMs about proper rebuilds. Figured out how drafting worked and figured out that Judd Brackett was smarter than Jim Benning. Like I said a few days ago, I think by 2017 he had figured out Benning should go ... but I still don't think he had the confidence and balls to fire his ex-teammate. And then the rug was pulled out from under him in a coup.

2021 Linden is now a jaded pro with some experience who probably wouldn't do a bad job if some team was willing to give him another shot. Same thing as how I always say it's better to hire a coach in his 2nd job where he's learned from his mistakes in the first one than it is to go with a rookie. Doubt Linden has any interest in ever working in the NHL again, though.
 

MS

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I hated the pick. Vanilla Jack of all trades master of none on elite teams.

You can’t draft that type of player even if it’s Lidstrom lite after that season 15/16 season.

Tkachuk was always the no brainer.


But I thought Juolevi was more of a late 1st type like Fabbro.

Big defensman who can skate and produce and skilled large forwards are much more difficult pieces to find imo.

Chychrun or Tkachuk were no brainers to me and McAvoy’s thicker build coupled with his skating should’ve also been highly ranked.

In the 2016 WJC/Memorial Cup (which is basically all of my Juolevi viewing that year) he went 11-0-16-16 +12.

He didn't look to me like a 'jack of all trades' guy. He looked like an elite puck-moving transition defender. The Lidstrom comparisons were idiotic, but to me you could easily see a Keith Yandle there. He was cutting teams apart with his outlet passing in those tournaments and looked great on the PP.

I hate being wrong, and when I'm wrong on something I try to analyze the shit out of how and why I ended up being wrong. And in Juolevi's case :

1) We'd been desperately looking for a puck-moving defender for 5 years since Ehrhoff left. Hadn't had a skill defender of any note in the system in forever. And I think I was wanting a player of that ilk in our system so badly that I ignored some red flags that otherwise would have given me pause.

2) Red flags like his offensive production in the regular season for London. Wasn't as good as it should have been for a player in his draft position playing the role he was playing on that elite team.

3) I underestimated just how good the players around him with Finland and with London were, and how basically playing with NHL players against kids floated Juolevi's boat. And how much it sheltered him from having to do any hard yards defensively, and how poor his defensive play was once he was put in a situation where he actually had to defend the following year.
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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If Linden got his way in 2018 Canucks would be entering their contending window this season.

Yup.

No Roussel. No Beagle. No Ferland. No Myers. Would have had absolutely tons of cap space in the 2020 offseason to push for guys like Taylor Hall or Alex Pietrangelo for the young core.

Like I said, he figured it out. But he figured it out too late.
 

platotld

Fly Canucks Fly
Jun 18, 2014
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Fraser valley
I don't care anymore, burn it down... down to the ground scorched earth. At least then my feelings of disappointment will have meaning.

And now my PERSONAL RANT, just my opinion, :

2020 twas shiet year. For many people, I am lucky in so far as I was and continue to work. But the weight of the year like many affected me. I was soooo looking forward to 2021 and even more so hockey. When I heard it would be a north division I was excited, sure it would maybe get lame having 3 games against the same team but this would be a once in a lifetime thing. I was behind it. And while I certainly was not expecting to finnish first I had hopes to be fighting for a playoff sport. Well that dream is over, and it's not just the losing.... its losing by 5 or 6 goals, then its hey we put in our best effort and still lost... but only by 1 or 2! Well even these best effort games I watch now and more times than I can count go WTF are they doing. It's like Green's system has been gamed by the other coaches. Players keep going to spots to retain or get the puck and other teams like chess masters just go to an open spot or behind the "D" and drill one into the net.

The Team ....it's been bad.

In a New Year that I am still stuck at home mostly, except the occasional time eating out with only family.
It's a new year that with compelling and fun hockey to watch would really give me something to cheer on and a little happiness and excitement.
It's the first and most likely only year for all Canadian teams and we (besides the Sen's ) are the countries whipping boy's
It's the year players come back to our rink and mopped the floor with us, and strangely don't even offer a wave or smile during thank you videos.
It's year we hear the inner heads of our stars telling us the fans how the loss of players has made it tough
It's the year for me I don't believe soon as we get behind we can come back, i did before.
It's the year I wonder when the next soft goal will come, at the worst time, didn't last year.. i felt we could hang in with 50 shots against.


And now I am sick of this sh*t. Will changes come? If they do what will happen? I don't know, but I need something .. a glimmer of hope and I can say with full authority that the current state of affairs is untenable. I need to have somewhere to look, I need to look down the road and see hope, and I say this now I don't care anymore, burn it down... down to the ground scorched earth.

Lastly F*ck you FA ... you own this team, you own this mess. Deal with it like a man now.

Peace out brothers and sisters and peeps.
 

clay

Registered User
Aug 25, 2005
2,700
1,325
Vancouver
I don't care anymore, burn it down... down to the ground scorched earth. At least then my feelings of disappointment will have meaning.

And now my PERSONAL RANT, just my opinion, :

2020 twas shiet year. For many people, I am lucky in so far as I was and continue to work. But the weight of the year like many affected me. I was soooo looking forward to 2021 and even more so hockey. When I heard it would be a north division I was excited, sure it would maybe get lame having 3 games against the same team but this would be a once in a lifetime thing. I was behind it. And while I certainly was not expecting to finnish first I had hopes to be fighting for a playoff sport. Well that dream is over, and it's not just the losing.... its losing by 5 or 6 goals, then its hey we put in our best effort and still lost... but only by 1 or 2! Well even these best effort games I watch now and more times than I can count go WTF are they doing. It's like Green's system has been gamed by the other coaches. Players keep going to spots to retain or get the puck and other teams like chess masters just go to an open spot or behind the "D" and drill one into the net.

The Team ....it's been bad.

In a New Year that I am still stuck at home mostly, except the occasional time eating out with only family.
It's a new year that with compelling and fun hockey to watch would really give me something to cheer on and a little happiness and excitement.
It's the first and most likely only year for all Canadian teams and we (besides the Sen's ) are the countries whipping boy's
It's the year players come back to our rink and mopped the floor with us, and strangely don't even offer a wave or smile during thank you videos.
It's year we hear the inner heads of our stars telling us the fans how the loss of players has made it tough
It's the year for me I don't believe soon as we get behind we can come back, i did before.
It's the year I wonder when the next soft goal will come, at the worst time, didn't last year.. i felt we could hang in with 50 shots against.


And now I am sick of this sh*t. Will changes come? If they do what will happen I don't know, but I need something .. a glimmer of hope and I can say with full authority that the current state of affairs is untenable. I need to have somewhere to look, I need to look down the road and see hope, and I say this now I don't care anymore, burn it down... down to the ground scorched earth.

Lastly F*ck you FA ... you own this team, you own this mess. Deal with it like a man now.

Peace out brothers and sisters and peeps.

Stay strong pal - we're all die hards but it's just a hobby at the end of the day.
 
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Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
In the 2016 WJC/Memorial Cup (which is basically all of my Juolevi viewing that year) he went 11-0-16-16 +12.
Compare that to the play of Jim Sandlak during his 1986 WJC tournament. (granted different positions and he'd already been drafted by the Canucks by then). Likely influenced management to dump Cam Neely.

Didn't the leafs go with Justin Pogge over Tuukka Rask at least partly as a result of a decent WJC performance? Danger of relying too much based on one 'short' tournament.

Stay strong pal - we're all die hards but it's just a hobby at the end of the day.
Speak for yourself.



:DD
 

mouz135

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
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2,113
Unfortunately this team has destroyed any shred of confidence I have. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if they not only fire the dumbass, but then replace him with someone who doesn’t have his head shoved so far up his ass. Someone who actually knows the game and knows how to properly manage a team.
 
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Bourne Endeavor

Registered User
Apr 6, 2009
37,331
5,338
Montreal, Quebec
One of the things that is poorly understood and under-reported by the general Canucks media is just how badly the GM effed up considering all the moves we could have made to weaponize cap space and then the expansion draft.

For a team that should have been rebuilding and had a ton of cap space - the expansion draft should have been a game changer.

Case in point, we could have been the team eating Marleau's contract for a first instead of Carolina. We were in the perfect position to be the dumpster for other teams. We were entering a rebuild and basically didn't need cap space. Instead, we paid up the nose for players underachieving. Granted, not all the blame can be put on Benning. I don't doubt for a second Aquilini wanted a competitive team despite it just not being feasible. Unfortunately, Benning didn't know how to build that either.
 
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sting101

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
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I think you’re probably well aware he isn’t putting those two players forth as good picks and are deliberately mischaracterizing what he said. I’m not going to look, but I imagine sting101, like all of us, is on record that those picks have turned out poorly.
He listed a bunch of random names he was over the moon about. Pretty silly list imo.


disagree with your interpretation. He listed guys who make him over the moon.

Probably pained him not to be able to list Markus G.


it’s incredible to me you continually make such poor assumptions.
Yes if Granlund was here i would have listed him?? sigh

The "random names" was a list of current Canucks and soon to be (Pod Try) drafted by the Canucks, followed by McCann and some hope fulls
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
29,640
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Case in point, we could have been the team eating Marleau's contract for a first instead of Carolina. We were in the perfect position to be the dumpster for other teams. We were entering a rebuild and basically didn't need cap space. Instead, we paid up the nose for players underachieving. Granted, not all the blame can be put on Benning. I don't doubt for a second Aquilini wanted a competitive team despite it just not being feasible. Unfortunately, Benning didn't know how to build that either.
The Marleau contract is one of those ones that we all thought was an obviously good move because it fit the need for a veteran and got us a pick. And he would have been helpful to the team - obviously not for 6 million.

Sad.

Oh, and Fleury would have been a fantastic target this offseason
 
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