The Management Thread | Part Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers

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RandV

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It should be fairly simple enough to dump Sutter and Roussel at least. We will have to retain and expect nothing in return but at least it frees up 3 million or so. Baerstchi should be bought out. If Benning goes all in on OEL it means Toffoli, Tanev and Stecher are out and Markstrom probably re-signs as he's OEL's buddy. I have a feeling Benning will hang on to Demko and let him be taken by Seattle because Benning is like that and doesn't have an ounce of fore site, common sense or creativity.

No it's not going to be "simple enough". It was never going to be simple and even more so now in a Covid-19 league. You may be able to find a GM who'd value the player and swap a contract with you, like Gudbranson for Pearson, but for our current team needs 'dumping' a player means you move him without taking a similar contract back. Just using Roussel as a good case, the reason he's on our team is because Benning was willing to give him more $$$ and more term than anyone else in free agency. Why would a team want this player now? And Sutter is even worse here.

Don't mean to pile on you but so many fans the last couple years, especially of the 'cap doesn't matter' persuasion, have just assumed we could ditch contracts when it was necessary. That was never going to be the case, it was always going to be a difficult task that relies more on luck than anything else. Like when Ottawa decides 'what we need for our playoff team is an Alex Burrows and lets give him a two year extension at the same time so here Vancouver have one of our top prospects' type of luck.
 
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LordBacon

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Oct 31, 2017
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No it's not going to be "simple enough". It was never going to be simple and even more so now in a Covid-19 league. You may be able to find a GM who'd value the player and swap a contract with you, like Gudbranson for Pearson, but for our current team needs 'dumping' a player means you move him without taking a similar contract back. Just using Roussel as a good case, the reason he's on our team is because Benning was willing to give him more $$$ and more term than anyone else in free agency. Why would a team want this player now? And Sutter is even worse here.

Don't mean to pile on you but so many fans the last couple years, especially of the 'cap doesn't matter' persuasion, have just assumed we could ditch contracts when it was necessary. That was never going to be the case, it was always going to be a difficult task that relies more on luck than anything else. Like when Ottawa decides 'what we need for our playoff team is an Alex Burrows and lets give him a two year extension at the same time so here Vancouver have one of our top prospects' type of luck.
Wait so you mean to tell me that we can’t just give other team our shitty contracts?
Why wouldn’t they wanna put themselves at a disadvantage while giving up a early pick and wasting a roster spot?
 

Bleach Clean

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Hes super patient because 1) Aquilini isnt a terrible smart or thoughtful guy and more importantly 2) there is a shit load of support from the fans for Benning. Including people who spend $$$.

If for example Canucks fans stopped giving money to the Canucks Benning would be gone yesterday.


I think it's more than this: I believe Aquilini has become aware of how he is perceived by the Old Boys Club of the NHL, and he is doing his darnedest to rectify that situation. That's why he's given Benning such leeway. Aquilini is trying to repair his reputation through Benning.

The side benefit is that Benning is a willing puppet, so it allows Aquilini to play faux GM with a shield.

An average fan hasn't delved deep enough into any baseline to be able to judge Benning properly. It's just Petterson, Hughes, rebuild, super scout, mentorpede and so on... The best things are propped up as proof while the frequency of bad things are disregarded.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Benning doing nothing is the smartest thing possible. Let them all walk.

Sign the RFA’s to no longer than 2 years.

Wait at least a week into free agency to sign players and give no more than two years preferably one year to any player. Good teams have good players they have to get rid of. Patience I think wins here. Options may open up for trades to fill out the roster as well.
Exactly.

Let the old boys walk and use the cap space to help the young core for years to come.

Demko is 25 he's ready....6.7 million to add a defenseman that can help going forward and a backup goalie. Forget albatross contracts to Tanev Markstrom and Toffoli. For once it would be nice to be patient and have money as the music is winding down for those deck chairs. I mean at the end of this it's possible you could get some incredible bargains. Teams have to plan for Seattle soon also. Toffoli and Marky are luxury items and Tanev is just too banged up for 4 or 5 yrs when his minutes are already below 20.
Eriksson and Baertschi to Utica. Ferland to LTIR
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23$81,500,000$73,982,711$1,700,000$4,782,500$7,517,289
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[TBODY] [/TBODY]
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[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
vancouver_canucks.svg

Miller, J.T.
$5,250,000
LW
UFA - 3
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Boeser, Brock
$5,875,000
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Pearson, Tanner
$3,750,000
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UFA - 1
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Horvat, Bo
$5,500,000
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Virtanen, Jake
$2,500,000
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Höglander, Nils
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Gaudette, Adam
$1,500,000
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Leivo, Josh
$1,500,000
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Roussel, Antoine
$3,000,000
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Sutter, Brandon
$4,375,000
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MacEwen, Zack
$825,000
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vancouver_canucks.svg

Motte, Tyler
$1,250,000
LW, C
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Beagle, Jay
$3,000,000
C
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Hughes, Quinn
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Edler, Alexander
$6,000,000
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Stecher, Troy
$2,500,000
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Juolevi, Olli
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Rafferty, Brogan
$700,000
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Benn, Jordie
$2,000,000
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UFA - 1
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4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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Exactly.

Let the old boys walk and use the cap space to help the young core for years to come.

Demko is 25 he's ready....6.7 million to add a defenseman that can help going forward and a backup goalie. Forget albatross contracts to Tanev Markstrom and Toffoli. For once it would be nice to be patient and have money as the music is winding down for those deck chairs. I mean at the end of this it's possible you could get some incredible bargains. Teams have to plan for Seattle soon also. Toffoli and Marky are luxury items and Tanev is just too banged up for 4 or 5 yrs when his minutes are already below 20.
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES
q2.svg
BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$73,982,711$1,700,000$4,782,500$7,517,289
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Delete Signed PlayerBuyoutAdd to Trade
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
vancouver_canucks.svg

Miller, J.T.
$5,250,000
LW
UFA - 3
vancouver_canucks.svg

Pettersson, Elias
$925,000
C
RFA - 1
vancouver_canucks.svg

Boeser, Brock
$5,875,000
RW
RFA - 2
vancouver_canucks.svg

Pearson, Tanner
$3,750,000
LW
UFA - 1
vancouver_canucks.svg

Horvat, Bo
$5,500,000
C
UFA - 3
vancouver_canucks.svg

Virtanen, Jake
$2,500,000
RW
RFA
vancouver_canucks.svg

Höglander, Nils
$891,667
LW
RFA - 3
vancouver_canucks.svg

Gaudette, Adam
$1,500,000
C
RFA
vancouver_canucks.svg

Leivo, Josh
$1,500,000
RW, LW
UFA
vancouver_canucks.svg

Roussel, Antoine
$3,000,000
LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
vancouver_canucks.svg

Sutter, Brandon
$4,375,000
RW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
vancouver_canucks.svg

MacEwen, Zack
$825,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
vancouver_canucks.svg

Motte, Tyler
$1,250,000
LW, C
RFA
vancouver_canucks.svg

Beagle, Jay
$3,000,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
vancouver_canucks.svg

Hughes, Quinn
$916,667
LD
RFA - 1
vancouver_canucks.svg

Myers, Tyler
$6,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
vancouver_canucks.svg

Demko, Thatcher
$1,050,000
G
RFA - 1
vancouver_canucks.svg

Edler, Alexander
$6,000,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
vancouver_canucks.svg

Stecher, Troy
$2,500,000
RD
RFA
vancouver_canucks.svg

Juolevi, Olli
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
vancouver_canucks.svg

Rafferty, Brogan
$700,000
RD
RFA - 1
vancouver_canucks.svg

Benn, Jordie
$2,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
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[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Quality players will take 1 year deals hoping the Pettersson bump that JT Miller got happens to them.

It’s an advantage that needs to be utilized.

I don’t trust that’s the path they take though.
 
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sting101

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Quality players will take 1 year deals hoping the Pettersson bump that JT Miller got happens to them.

It’s an advantage that needs to be utilized.

I don’t trust that’s the path they take though.
Couldn't agree more. The spot on RW with Petey or Horvat is looking pretty damn good as is partnering up with Quinn Hughes
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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Quality players will take 1 year deals hoping the Pettersson bump that JT Miller got happens to them.

It’s an advantage that needs to be utilized.

I don’t trust that’s the path they take though.

If ever there was a year to be patient and then scoop up quality assets who have been left out in the cold, and do so on short-term deals, this is the year.

Unfortunately, the team seems to be frothing at the mouth to overpay with massive term for a Barrie or OEL.
 

4Twenty

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Couldn't agree more. The spot on RW with Petey or Horvat is looking pretty damn good as is partnering up with Quinn Hughes
Yup everyone who wants Toffoli to help Bo needs to realize he got most of his production from Pettersson. I’m not convinced you couldn’t develop Gaudette to play that spot either.

I think a 3C is a big hole and if they are patient a quality 2B type C could shake loose.
 

topched88

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Jan 21, 2007
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I dont want to speak to soon, but realizing we are stuck and not doing anything in my opinion isn' t the worst outcome here. The mistakes have already been made, my biggest worry (assuming I wasn't wrong that we wouldn't be able to move out money as easy as benning thought) would be that he is going to double down to try and make it work next year.

Id rather take our medicine, and extend out window here. The only bad long term contract we have is myers at the moment, and I would much prefer to keep it that way.
 

xtra

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If ever there was a year to be patient and then scoop up quality assets who have been left out in the cold, and do so on short-term deals, this is the year.

Unfortunately, the team seems to be frothing at the mouth to overpay with massive term for a Barrie or OEL.

The right moves for the canucks organization and the right moves for benning to keep his job aren’t the same unfortunately.

Benning needs the team to be better or as good as last year which means buying out contracts and kicking the pain down the road a bit or getting those name players like OEL/Barrie who probably won’t live up to their contracts.

what’s the right move for the canucks organization? No long term contracts; gain as much flexibility for next year/year after when Hughes/pettersson/boeser are up for renewal,

Like you said I’d take some flyers on low risk short term deals. I know grabner is a bottom 6 player but he seems like someone that could benefit from Hughes breakout passes or as a third piece for pettersson/Miller as those two drive the play anyway
 

RobertKron

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So I either didn't see, or forgot watching any of the games that Baertschi played in the NHL last season.
Was he actually so bad that they'd rather take the ~3mil cap hit to not use him instead of having given him some games to try to pump his value enough to at least trade him with retention instead of like, publicly talking him down? I don't fully understand what happened with his player. Is his head just cooked?
 
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Rumsfeld

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The best thing that could happen for the Canucks is probably nothing. Just eat it this season and accept that these awful contracts to garbage players have hamstrung us for at least a year.

But I fully expect something extremely stupid to be done by the weekend. Because Jim.
 

Fatass

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The best thing that could happen for the Canucks is probably nothing. Just eat it this season and accept that these awful contracts to garbage players have hamstrung us for at least a year.

But I fully expect something extremely stupid to be done by the weekend. Because Jim.
It’s not just Jimmy; there’s Wisebrod whispering in his ear. :shakehead
 

ekimbo

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Sep 28, 2009
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So I either didn't see, or forgot watching any of the games that Baertschi played in the NHL last season.
Was he actually so bad that they'd rather take the ~3mil cap hit to not use him instead of having given him some games to try to pump his value enough to at least trade him with retention instead of like, publicly talking him down? I don't fully understand what happened with his player. Is his head just cooked?

i would like to know this as well... his stats in the AHL look pretty good about where you expect him to be. I have a feeling the management/coaching staff started making a concerted effort to be more gritty after Linden's departure and Baertschi doesn't fit in to that mold.

I feel like if we had Tampa's management he would have been given top 6 minutes to pump his value and then he would have been traded. Instead he was waived to the AHL and his value was diminished to a point where he can't be moved.
 

CantStoptheBrock

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Jun 26, 2020
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The value-pumping argument is so hilarious.

First of all, it presumes that NHL GM's are so stupid that they can't observe when a player's value is being obviously pumped.

Second, it dictates a team's roster for 3/4 of a season, all for an extra 4th or 5th round pick, if you're lucky.

Baertschi is slow and soft, especially since his injuries. The Canucks want to be fast and tough. Pretty simple why he's fallen out of favour.
 
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F A N

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I think Baertschi is an NHL caliber player. In a middle 6 role I think he can be still be offensively productive. It's too bad he didn't get more of a chance here this season.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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The value-pumping argument is so hilarious.

First of all, it presumes that NHL GM's are so stupid that they can't observe when a player's value is being obviously pumped.

Second, it dictates a team's roster for 3/4 of a season, all for an extra 4th or 5th round pick, if you're lucky.

Baertschi is slow and soft, especially since his injuries. The Canucks want to be fast and tough. Pretty simple why he's fallen out of favour.
Right, he definitely is slow and soft. But, the fact they decided that so quickly after giving him a three year deal was surprising. Not like he wasn't soft and slow in 2015 when we got him.
 
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Wandering Cynic

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I don’t know why Benning isn’t just buying out a few of these awful contracts. Buying out Baertschi and Sutter should cover the Toffoli contract alone.

If COVID continues, it’s likely Pettersson and Hughes will take bridge contracts anyways. He needs to make a move here.
 

timw33

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I don’t know why Benning isn’t just buying out a few of these awful contracts. Buying out Baertschi and Sutter should cover the Toffoli contract alone.

If COVID continues, it’s likely Pettersson and Hughes will take bridge contracts anyways. He needs to make a move here.

Buying out Sutter and Baertschi means we have to eat dead cap in 21-22 when Hughes and Pettersson need extensions. And you get next to zero relief from buying out Baertschi vs just burying him in AHL (it's like $800k).

We're far better off just eating these contracts this year, burying them in the AHL, and not muddying up our future cap situation any worse than it already is.
 

rypper

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I don’t know why Benning isn’t just buying out a few of these awful contracts. Buying out Baertschi and Sutter should cover the Toffoli contract alone.

If COVID continues, it’s likely Pettersson and Hughes will take bridge contracts anyways. He needs to make a move here.

Maybe he isn't allowed to.
 

timw33

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""Believe Joel Blomqvist was the goaltender at the very top of Ian Clark’s wish list, and was prized highly by the #Canucks . I’d think there’s a fair bit of disappointment in the Vancouver war room at the moment.""


Way to go, Jim and John, let it leak that there's a goalie you really want, don't have 2nd round picks, can't trade up, and have him scooped while everyone knows he's the guy you want.
 

Just A Bit Outside

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I don’t know why Benning isn’t just buying out a few of these awful contracts. Buying out Baertschi and Sutter should cover the Toffoli contract alone.

If COVID continues, it’s likely Pettersson and Hughes will take bridge contracts anyways. He needs to make a move here.
He shouldn’t be allowed to just fix his stupid mistakes easily.

He should try and be an actual GM.
 

krutovsdonut

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so i want you all to imagine benning was replaced by steve yzerman the day after the playoffs.

now imagine yzerman evaluated the 3 big canuck ufas and would like to move on from all three of them on the basis of salary or expected future play, or seeing preferred options. at most he would take back toffoli for the right price.

i also want you to imagine that all 3 are extremely popular in a tight knit locker room and that other players have asked you to do your best to sign them. imagine ep asked yzerman particularly to bring back toffoli.

imagine that a cap analysis made clear with current aav you could not sign all 3 players and, in fact, could only sign one at best after resigning all your rfas and allowing for a full roster.

now imagine yzerman proceeded as follows

-duly announced an intention to sign all 3
-made clear marky had to be signed first
-tentatively negotiated a decent contract with toffoli using marky situation for leverage.
-held off completely on tanev supposedly pending marky
-made marky a low offer on the basis you had to try and save $ for the others
-made no moves to improve the aav situation to make stated intentions of signing 3 possible
-refused to pay any price or make any sacrifices to move cap
-used a possible trade for a big name with cap going back to excuse your limited efforts to move out cap
-waited til the last minute to qualify rfas to make the cap situation clear.
-ran out the clock

now would this be 3d genius chess or yzerman being an idiot?
 
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