TV: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - Amazon Prime Series

[Hivemind]

Well, I'm not sure that LoTR should even be considered "high fantasy". My understanding is that high fantasy is set in an alternate, fictional, world- like Game of Thrones. "Low fantasy" (actually a thing apparently) is set on earth, in the real world. LoTR is set on Earth, roughly 4000 BC. I don't think the phrase "high fantasy" existed at the time he wrote it, but I suspect Tolkein would object to the term (he objected to a lot of things people said about his work). I realize this is kind of a semantic argument but I would call Tolkein's work fictional mythology, or even fictional folk tales. Much more in line with things like the Nibelungenlied than with Game of Thrones or other "high fantasy".

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.

More broadly speaking:
High Fantasy = Fantastic creatures (dragons, elves, faeries) & settings (typically an original world with its own "rules") in which there is a heroic quest and/or world-defining battles between good & evil
Low Fantasy = Fantastic elements introduced to a "realistic" setting (often a real world setting), in which there is grit, realism, and/or moral quandaries. Scales may not be as high.

The setting is certainly one distinguishing factor, but not the only one. And Arda certainly fits into a High Fantasy setting, as it is an invented world with its own rules. Just because Tolkein envisioned it as an imagined pre-history doesn't really change that it's a high fantasy setting. It's still a world that comes from Tolkein's imagination, with its own creation story, it's own internal logic/magical system/nature, and it's own set of imagined inhabitants. It has even less connection to the real world than books like the Oz series or the Chronicles of Narnia, both of which contain imagined parallel worlds but feature characters taken from our real world in the author's present day.

Things like Game of Thrones blend both High Fantasy (dragons, magic, invented worlds) with Low Fantasy (politics & soap opera drama, grounded/gritty combat, nihilistic characters, moral quandaries).

 

[Jack Straw]

The setting is certainly one distinguishing factor, but not the only one. And Arda certainly fits into a High Fantasy setting, as it is an invented world with its own rules. Just because Tolkein envisioned it as an imagined pre-history doesn't really change that it's a high fantasy setting. It's still a world that comes from Tolkein's imagination, with its own creation story, it's own internal logic/magical system/nature, and it's own set of imagined inhabitants.

No, it isn't. Tolein was very clear on that in his correspondences- he specifically responded to questions along these lines that Arda is earth, it was not an imagined world. He also said that he tried his best to make things (travel time, changing of the seasons, etc...) conform to reality but he realized that he didn't get it all correct. But the Shire calendar was 365 days (366 for leap year) with 12 months and 7 day weeks.

He even created a frame story in which a mariner from Northern Europe (Denmark, Germany, somewhere around there) is shipwrecked on Tol Eressëa where he is rescued by the Elves, and they tell him these stories.

Clearly his intent was to set his stories in our world, but in a fictional past. If you want to argue that that makes it "high fantasy", fine. Not worth arguing about imo.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't think an author's intentions matter in subgenre classification if those intentions never make their way into the works themselves. On the page, Lord of the Rings is a work of high fantasy.

 

[Hivemind]

No, it isn't. Tolein was very clear on that in his correspondences- he specifically responded to questions along these lines that Arda is earth, it was not an imagined world. He also said that he tried his best to make things (travel time, changing of the seasons, etc...) conform to reality but he realized that he didn't get it all correct. But the Shire calendar was 365 days (366 for leap year) with 12 months and 7 day weeks.

He even created a frame story in which a mariner from Northern Europe (Denmark, Germany, somewhere around there) is shipwrecked on Tol Eressëa where he is rescued by the Elves, and they tell him these stories.

Clearly his intent was to set his stories in our world, but in a fictional past. If you want to argue that that makes it "high fantasy", fine. Not worth arguing about imo.

Dear lord, if you don't understand that an invented pre-history of Earth with its own origin story, its own map, its own magical system, its own set of magical creatures/beings/monsters/races, its own languages, its own invented history, its own kingdoms, and even its own different cycles of night & day is an imagined world - then you're just being intentionally dense. Like, dude, come on.

By your asinine interpretation, Wheel of Time isn't high fantasy either - as its our same Earth in a different age that has reset history (and even contains subtle references to real world people/events). But calling Wheel of Time anything other than high fantasy is just plain stupid.

(Also, the length of the year is highly variable in Arda. In the Years of the Trees - years were much much much longer)

 

[BMann]

It was always obvious it was a flop. The word of mouth was negative before, during and after the show aired. The general reaction and reception was very much reminiscent of Ghostbusters 2016 the movie that nobody wanted exactly like this show.

If they had actually stuck to the chronology and mythology without interpolating numskulls as directors whose main concern was to be politically correct having fired the Tolkein experts it's no surprise.

It's a well established mythos but they could not help tinker with. The potential and scope was enormous but this screw up means any chance of a series on the First Age and episodes on the travails of Feanor, Hurin and almighty battles like that at Ondolinde and the shattering of Thangorodrim are never going to happen.

I'm surprised no one has done a live action version of the mythos of Earthsea written by that wonderful author the late Ursula Le Guin.

 

[Hivemind]

 

[sdf]

The ring of the lords

 

[LightningStorm]

As much as I loathe YouTubers diving into hour-long video essays to pick apart media adaptations, NOTR is the exception here. Rather than trojan horsing a bunch of cringe-worthy culture war takes, this is an even-handed and on-topic review of the whole season that actually focuses on the show and its originating material rather than social commentary. NOTR has been involved in the LOTR youtube far predating this show and been doing tons of RoP content before and during the season (including interviews with many actors and others involved in the show). Don't agree with everything he says (and there's things that I feel are essential criticisms of the show he doesn't touch on), but I do with the bulk of it.

Long as hell, but well done.

This is a great review. I liked how in the first video NOTR did when this series came out he mentioned that if you are one who's committed to loving or hating the show then his review series isn't for you. I also love how, as you say, he doesn't use it as a trojan horse for citing culture war takes. Whether I agree or disagree with his takes, he does do a fair analysis.

A big issue I found with both the writers of this show and ironically also some of the critics is a lack of understanding of the 2nd age. The complicated thing of expressing my opinion of this show and where it fell short is first setting up the context that is the 2nd age of Middle Earth.