Blue Jays Discussion: The "Let's blow up the team" edition

[King Mapes]

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[King Mapes]

Rogers has money.

Lots and LOTS of money. Kind of what happens when you have basically shared monopoly over the internet/cable with bell that you overcharge in collusion. While at the same time using that money to buy up all the sports franchises in Toronto including the incredibly lucrative Toronto Maple Leafs.

Nope...no budgets, Rogers is just trying to field as cheap a team as possible that's able to sell beer. As such I see through their ******** and I'm done with the Jays. Thankfully because of the cap, this attitude can't carry over to the Leafs...yet.

Do people actually think like this? Rogers aren't owning the Jays to lose money. This is the worst logic I've seen. What they make in cell phones is irrelevant

 

[ShaneFalco]

3 possible Blue Jays trade proposals for McCutchen

To TOR: McCutchen, IF Chris Bostick
To PIT: P Marcus Stroman, P Glenn Sparkman, P Francisco Rios

Young big-league pitching is the Blue Jays' strength, and they may have to deal from it to get McCutchen. Perhaps the biggest name to watch here is Stroman, one of a trifecta of high-caliber young arms anchoring Toronto's staff alongside 2016 Cy Young candidate Aaron Sanchez and electric closer Roberto Osuna. Stroman's name reportedly popped up in Toronto's talks with the Rockies about Charlie Blackmon, and while that proposal was rejected, Stroman's still the likeliest of the three pitchers to be traded for McCutchen. For the Pirates, adding the 25-year-old to an already stellar young staff might help them stay in contention for a wild-card spot despite trading Cutch. Sparkman, Toronto's Rule 5 pick earlier this month, and the young prospect Rios could help flesh this deal out for Pittsburgh, but as an established big-league pitcher, Stroman's presence could lower the quantity of players surrendered by Toronto.

To TOR: McCutchen
To PIT: P Joe Biagini, P Sean Reid-Foley, OF Dalton Pompey, 1B Rowdy Tellez

The tried-and-true prospect route would be far more popular in Toronto - as it would keep its championship-caliber rotation intact - than in Pittsburgh. As noted above, the Blue Jays don't have a singular high-end prospect, but they do possess several intriguing names with solid potential. A return centered around Biagini - last year's Rule 5 pick who became a key member of the Blue Jays' bullpen - along with the slugging first base prospect Tellez, a speedy young outfielder in Pompey, and Toronto's No. 2 prospect in Reid-Foley, might do the trick. All those names, if they pan out, could help the Pirates return to relevance by 2019 at the latest, while McCutchen would slide into the Blue Jays' powerful lineup as Encarnacion's replacement, extending their contention window for another few seasons.

Baseball doesn't see many three-team trades anymore, but the Indians' agreement with Encarnacion might open the door to one here. J.D. Martinez has been one of many Tigers players bandied about in trade rumors all winter, and if Detroit wants to begin a tear-down - now that Encarnacion has improved its rival Indians - Martinez would be a perfect replacement for McCutchen in Pittsburgh. A Blue Jays-Pirates-Tigers three-way deal could make it all happen:

To TOR: McCutchen (from PIT), P Justin Wilson (from DET)
To PIT: Martinez (from DET), P T.J. Zeuch (from TOR)
To DET: Pompey, P Connor Greene, C Danny Jansen (from TOR), P Dovydas Neverauskas (from PIT)
Martinez would bring the Tigers a nice prospect haul - primarily from the Blue Jays - to kick-start their rebuild. A bevy of young pitching in their pipeline, meanwhile, means the Pirates can spare Neverauskas, an intriguing Lithuanian right-hander in Triple-A, to land Martinez - Cutch's natural, cheaper lineup replacement who would help the Pirates contend for a wild-card spot in 2017 and '18 - along with another young arm in Toronto's Zeuch, who played his college ball at Pitt. The Blue Jays would not only add McCutchen, but also net a much-needed lefty for the bullpen in Detroit's Wilson, all while holding onto Stroman, Biagini, and Tellez. They'd still give up a lot in prospects, but doing so in a creative three-way deal to land both McCutchen and Wilson would have to be an intriguing thought.

 

[Eyedea]

Jays aren't the ones adding in a Stroman/McCutchen swap. JD Martinez only has one more year left, and the Jays are somehow giving up more in trade 2 than trade 3 despite additionally receiving Justin Wilson. Tellez is also redundant for the Pirates with Josh Bell being a 1B now.

 

[AllDay28]

oh boy those are some pretty terrible trades. Cutch on is on the block cause hes overpaid and not a CF anymore and probably declining post injury. You dont give up a top 20 controlled SP for a LF

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Jays aren't the ones adding in a Stroman/McCutchen swap. JD Martinez only has one more year left, and the Jays are somehow giving up more in trade 2 than trade 3 despite additionally receiving Justin Wilson. Tellez is also redundant for the Pirates with Josh Bell being a 1B now.

The third one is the only one I'd say the Jays would ever consider, and even then they'd have to be convinced that McCutchen is going to give a lot of value.

I'm sure they don't mind giving up Pompey or Jansen with the other (likely better) prospects they have in the pipeline. The Jays have a lot of great outfielders, plus McGuire (and possibly Pentecost) at catcher. Greene and Zeuch is where they'd have to think long and hard, being the Jays 3rd and 4th best pitching prospects, and Greene being the closest to the MLB of the top pitching prospects the Jays have.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I'll have to see it to believe it that this management group would make a move for someone like McCutchen. It is essentially the opposite of Shapiro's philosophy.

 

[Gargyn]

oh boy those are some pretty terrible trades. Cutch on is on the block cause hes overpaid and not a CF anymore and probably declining post injury. You dont give up a top 20 controlled SP for a LF

Stroman may get to be a top 20 pitcher someday but let's not pretend he is top 20 at this point in his career. Not even close. Guy has become the most overrated guy in the league by this fanbase.

 

[Eyedea]

Stroman may get to be a top 20 pitcher someday but let's not pretend he is top 20 at this point in his career. Not even close. Guy has become the most overrated guy in the league by this fanbase.

2016 DIPs:

GB/FB: 2.95 (1st)
K/BB: 13.1% (41st)
ERA-: 102 (50th)
FIP-: 86 (19th)
xFIP-: 80 (t-4th)
SIERA: 3.62 (15th)

In the second half he trended up and started to play to his peripherals as well.

2nd half:

GB/FB: 2.91 (1st)
K-BB%: 17% (23rd)
ERA-: 86 (35th)
FIP-: 81 (16th)
xFIP-: 71 (1st)
SIERA: 3.25 (6th)

 

[Paladin2799]

2016 DIPs:

GB/FB: 2.95 (1st)
K/BB: 13.1% (41st)
ERA-: 102 (50th)
FIP-: 86 (19th)
xFIP-: 80 (t-4th)
SIERA: 3.62 (15th)

In the second half he trended up and started to play to his peripherals as well.

2nd half:

GB/FB: 2.91 (1st)
K-BB%: 17% (23rd)
ERA-: 86 (35th)
FIP-: 81 (16th)
xFIP-: 71 (1st)
SIERA: 3.25 (6th)

Anyone who doesn't see Stroman as an ELITE young arm, should never, ever, comment again.

 

[one77]

Yeah I'd only do that 3rd trade for McCutchen. But he'd be a perfect fit here...

Travis
McCutchen
Donaldson
Bautista
Morales
Tulowitzki
Pearce
Martin
Pillar

 

[AllDay28]

Stroman may get to be a top 20 pitcher someday but let's not pretend he is top 20 at this point in his career. Not even close. Guy has become the most overrated guy in the league by this fanbase.

dont let numbers sway your opinion.

 

[teeder333*]

I don't see Stroman as elite. And I will comment on anything on this topic, whenever I want.

 

[AllDay28]

I'll have to see it to believe it that this management group would make a move for someone like McCutchen. It is essentially the opposite of Shapiro's philosophy.

notice the massive decline? yea lets deal for that.

 

[ktownhockey]

Ideally, getting McCutchen without giving up Stroman makes us better. That coupled with a solid backup catcher and Logan and I would still be confident in our playoff chances.

 

[Eyedea]

Anyone who doesn't see Stroman as an ELITE young arm, should never, ever, comment again.

Yeah, and just to throw around a Stroman/Halladay comp, their age 25 seasons:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...0&rost=0&age=25,25&filter=&players=1303,13431

Halladay experienced career highs in HR/9 at age 24-25, but with regressed outcomes on fly balls we can see that they weren't terribly different at the same age. He probably won't reached Halladay levels of command/control, I mean he was after all the best pitcher of his era, but Stroman is still an incredibly valuable arm who is still playing around with his arsenal.

 

[Kurtz]

I'll have to see it to believe it that this management group would make a move for someone like McCutchen. It is essentially the opposite of Shapiro's philosophy.

Yep.

 

[Discoverer]

What a horrible bunch of potential trades. Usually trades from the Jays perspective fail from the other team's side, but these are the opposite. The Jays aren't going to overpay for someone's name, and the third means the Pirates clearing up their outfield logjam by acquiring an outfield.

They're all awful and not even remotely close to realistic.

 

[Eyedea]

Of course management would make a move for McCutchen, but "kicking around" roughly translates to "so has your asking price dropped yet?". If the rumoured scenario of Giolito + Robles for Cutch rings true, then the Jays don't have the pieces without sacrificing major league talent.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Wow those are some awful proposals. This isn't the elite McCutchen anymore. He can still be a good player but not MVP caliber anymore.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

notice the massive decline? yea lets deal for that.

I don't care about his "massive decline". I said someone like McCutchen. If not him, then some other player with cache behind him. It wasn't necessarily a knock against Shapiro (and Atkins).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yeah I'd only do that 3rd trade for McCutchen. But he'd be a perfect fit here...

Travis
McCutchen
Donaldson
Bautista
Morales
Tulowitzki
Pearce
Martin
Pillar

I doubt the Jays would bring back Bautista if they get McCutchen. Most likely the Jays would just use Upton Jr. and have Carrera as the 4th outfielder.

 

[AllDay28]

I don't care about his "massive decline". I said someone like McCutchen. If not him, then some other player with cache behind him. It wasn't necessarily a knock against Shapiro (and Atkins).

but "someone like him" is a 0.7 WAR player lol which a lot of MLBers are.. Unless you want us constantly trading for declining players (see: Reyes among others).. then sure..

 

[Mad Brills*]

He'd be a massive upgrade over what's projected there right now, especially if Jose's gone.

 

[Kurtz]

but "someone like him" is a 0.7 WAR player lol which a lot of MLBers are.. Unless you want us constantly trading for declining players (see: Reyes among others).. then sure..

He was playing injured most of the year last season.