The Legacy of Ken Holland

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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That was the roster bowman set him up with, he didnt do anything. Look up his entire trade history, you'll see how bad he is. He's not an active GM. Was given a legendary roster to work with. Now with the end of that era, this is his team now, worst defense core in the league since Lidstrom retired. Steady decline and finally crashed to the bottom, if he was a great GM, wings would not be in this position today. Babcock left because he knew team will continue to trend downwards because of him.

Yeah yeah, for sure.
 

SCD

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Apr 8, 2018
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Holland's 2016 trade of #16 for #20 & #53, and subsequent draft selections may go down as his greatest move of his career. Not to mention him dumping 7.5 mil in cap dollars at the same time.
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Holland's 2016 trade of #16 for #20 & #53, and subsequent draft selections may go down as his greatest move of his career. Not to mention him dumping 7.5 mil in cap dollars at the same time.

I mean, I don't know. He made some pretty fantastic moves.

21sts and Anders Eriksson for Chris Chelios
Absolutely nothing for Larry Murphy
Two seconds for Brad Stuart
Kozlov and a 1st for Dominik Hasek
Coffey and malcontent Primeau for Shanahan and trash
$1 for Ray Shepard and then Ray Shepard for Igor Larionov
$1 for Kris Draper

Hell, even recently, #18 for Mantha and Bertuzzi might be a better move.
 
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Pizza!Pizza!

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Sep 25, 2018
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Holland is a great GM in my opinion. The Wings just had a bad run of luck of players not living up to their potential (and LTIR issues). You can tell he learned from those issues because he didn't hang on to Filppula or Hudler like he did with Helm and Tartar and he let let Pulkkinen and Sheahan go after 1 season of not being able to hit the net.

Its becoming evident in the Cap-Era that the only 2 ways to be anything close to a dynasty anymore are to either 1) lock up a generational talent or two long term and hope that you can randomly draft/sign enough serviceable 'depth' players that you can string together a cup run every couple years (Chicago, Pittsburgh, Capitals) or to sign a young core group of top six talent to long term middle of the road amounts and hope that they continue to develop and give you a window opportunity for a couple years (St. Louis, Los Angeles, Nashville). Obviously one of these approaches works better than the others, but nobody knew that back in 2005. The players Kenny bet on 8 years ago did not pan out, but I think all of his recent moves shows he's learned from that process and has changed tactics.
 

Ricelund

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Apr 16, 2006
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Does anyone happen to remember if the Wings ever tried to bring Kozlov back in the years after they traded him to BUF?
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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Does anyone happen to remember if the Wings ever tried to bring Kozlov back in the years after they traded him to BUF?

I don't remember hearing anything about it, and he really seemed to find his niche in Atlanta, putting up some big numbers. He was actually more productive there than in Detroit. Would have liked him back in Detroit, too. Was always a favorite of mine.
 

Ricelund

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I don't remember hearing anything about it, and he really seemed to find his niche in Atlanta, putting up some big numbers. He was actually more productive there than in Detroit. Would have liked him back in Detroit, too. Was always a favorite of mine.
Yeah, I remember him lighting it up in Atlanta -- and we all know Holland is loyal once you're in the family. I wonder if they considered him bringing him back in the '05-10 period.
 

Dotter

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Ken Holland sets another milestone that none of us will ever witness again in our lifetime. Kenny passed Jack Adams as the winningest GM in Red Wings’ history.

Nobody talking about this amazing feat.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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"I'm not really giving you an answer on my career as to when it's time to leave. But I guess what I am saying is, I'm going to make the decisions that I think are in the best interests of the Detroit Red Wings, because it's been a magical, magical run."

Pure class. I think he will be the GM next season but it will be interesting to watch the transfer of power from Holland to Yzerman. He has done substantial leg work for the rebuild so that the Captain really can hit the ground running with some building blocks.
 

lilidk

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Mar 4, 2008
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Yes he has some mistakes , but who doesn't. His biggest one to let go Fillpula and what was happening after. Overall he is one of the best in the business
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
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Yes he has some mistakes , but who doesn't. His biggest one to let go Fillpula and what was happening after. Overall he is one of the best in the business

Filppula wouldn't re-sign because of Babcock. There is nothing he could have done on that one.

I mean Weiss was a good player, maybe not the greatest but him having career ending injuries right away was not expected at all. That was very unfortunate, I don't think that was a bad signing at the time, in terms of a pivot while losing Filppula.
 

Dotter

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Filppula wouldn't re-sign because of Babcock. There is nothing he could have done on that one.

I mean Weiss was a good player, maybe not the greatest but him having career ending injuries right away was not expected at all. That was very unfortunate, I don't think that was a bad signing at the time, in terms of a pivot while losing Filppula.

^This. And people have annoying 20/20 hindsight vision always forget that Weiss was considered one of the top UFA that year and Ken Holland and the Red Wings were considered winners that year's UFA.

Sports fans, in general, loveeeee hindsight while ignoring the real facts of the time.
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
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Filppula wouldn't re-sign because of Babcock. There is nothing he could have done on that one.

I mean Weiss was a good player, maybe not the greatest but him having career ending injuries right away was not expected at all. That was very unfortunate, I don't think that was a bad signing at the time, in terms of a pivot while losing Filppula.

^This. And people have annoying 20/20 hindsight vision always forget that Weiss was considered one of the top UFA that year and Ken Holland and the Red Wings were considered winners that year's UFA.

Sports fans, in general, loveeeee hindsight while ignoring the real facts of the time.

A tremendous amount of really good GM's make this mistake of holding onto players and losing them for nothing. I wish Holland would've traded Filppula, but I doubt it would've made a different in the grand scheme of things.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
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A tremendous amount of really good GM's make this mistake of holding onto players and losing them for nothing. I wish Holland would've traded Filppula, but I doubt it would've made a different in the grand scheme of things.

He kinda did trade Filppula. He essentially traded him for Stephen Weiss, which didn't work out (which I don't blame anyone for -- unforeseen circumstances). Now Frans Nielsen.

While it is true he didn't get a 2nd rounder for Flip, he did get Weiss/Nielsen without giving up assets. Basically a swap that essentially did work out now we have Frans Nielsen signed from UFA.
 

SCD

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Apr 8, 2018
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He kinda did trade Filppula. He essentially traded him for Stephen Weiss, which didn't work out (which I don't blame anyone for -- unforeseen circumstances). Now Frans Nielsen.

While it is true he didn't get a 2nd rounder for Flip, he did get Weiss/Nielsen without giving up assets. Basically a swap that essentially did work out now we have Frans Nielsen signed from UFA.
No, he lost a pending UFA for nothing. It was known that Filppula did not want to play under Babcock, but Holland thought he could overcome that and sign him.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
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No, he lost a pending UFA for nothing. It was known that Filppula did not want to play under Babcock, but Holland thought he could overcome that and sign him.

And he gained an UFA for nothing. Replacing him and making the situation whole again. It worked out at the end of the day.

I'm not going to cry over a random 2nd rounder that in hindsight he may have been able to get (as he wanted Flip, made a bet, lost, and lost virtually nothing). He has made up for it in some good trades 10x over again since then.

Such an insignificant blip that is hardly worth data usage on this forum mentioning, actually.
 

SCD

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Apr 8, 2018
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And he gained an UFA for nothing. Replacing him and making the situation whole again. It worked out at the end of the day.

I'm not going to cry over a random 2nd rounder that in hindsight he may have been able to get (as he wanted Flip, made a bet, lost, and lost virtually nothing). He has made up for it in some good trades 10x over again since then.

Such an insignificant blip that is hardly worth data usage on this forum mentioning, actually.
By definition, you always get a UFA for nothing.

Holland tried to make up for the loss of Filppula by getting a UFA in the offseason, and unfortunately it did not work out (and we are still paying for it) .

Do I think it is a huge blemish on Holland's career, no. But we were in a different position at that point, still fighting in the playoffs. If he traded Filppula before the trade deadline without a replacement, that would have been a bigger problem for the team. We are not in that position today, and should not risk losing pending UFAs for nothing.

Your logic as presented just doesn't fit what happened in reality.
 

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