The Legacy of Ken Holland

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by FissionFire, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. Henkka

    Henkka Registered User

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    Yeah yeah, for sure.
     
  2. chances14

    chances14 Registered User

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    all teams rise and fall. I don't agree with holland's conservative approach to things, but to say he's the absolute worst gm in the salary cap world is just the typical anti holland hysteria that has infected this board over the years.
     
  3. NEWing

    NEWing Registered User

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    Holland's 2016 trade of #16 for #20 & #53, and subsequent draft selections may go down as his greatest move of his career. Not to mention him dumping 7.5 mil in cap dollars at the same time.
     
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  4. tsweeney

    tsweeney Registered User

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    I mean, I don't know. He made some pretty fantastic moves.

    21sts and Anders Eriksson for Chris Chelios
    Absolutely nothing for Larry Murphy
    Two seconds for Brad Stuart
    Kozlov and a 1st for Dominik Hasek
    Coffey and malcontent Primeau for Shanahan and trash
    $1 for Ray Shepard and then Ray Shepard for Igor Larionov
    $1 for Kris Draper

    Hell, even recently, #18 for Mantha and Bertuzzi might be a better move.
     
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  5. NEWing

    NEWing Registered User

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    Depends whether you want to give credit to Holland for trades that were made when he was Assistant GM or just GM.
     
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  6. Pizza!Pizza!

    Pizza!Pizza! Registered User

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    Holland is a great GM in my opinion. The Wings just had a bad run of luck of players not living up to their potential (and LTIR issues). You can tell he learned from those issues because he didn't hang on to Filppula or Hudler like he did with Helm and Tartar and he let let Pulkkinen and Sheahan go after 1 season of not being able to hit the net.

    Its becoming evident in the Cap-Era that the only 2 ways to be anything close to a dynasty anymore are to either 1) lock up a generational talent or two long term and hope that you can randomly draft/sign enough serviceable 'depth' players that you can string together a cup run every couple years (Chicago, Pittsburgh, Capitals) or to sign a young core group of top six talent to long term middle of the road amounts and hope that they continue to develop and give you a window opportunity for a couple years (St. Louis, Los Angeles, Nashville). Obviously one of these approaches works better than the others, but nobody knew that back in 2005. The players Kenny bet on 8 years ago did not pan out, but I think all of his recent moves shows he's learned from that process and has changed tactics.
     
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  7. NEWing

    NEWing Registered User

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    Larkin @6.1 mil X 5 years is looking pretty good.
     
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  8. Ricelund

    Ricelund ̶W̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ Sponsor

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    Does anyone happen to remember if the Wings ever tried to bring Kozlov back in the years after they traded him to BUF?
     
  9. Winger98

    Winger98 Moderator

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    I don't remember hearing anything about it, and he really seemed to find his niche in Atlanta, putting up some big numbers. He was actually more productive there than in Detroit. Would have liked him back in Detroit, too. Was always a favorite of mine.
     
  10. Ricelund

    Ricelund ̶W̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ Sponsor

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    Yeah, I remember him lighting it up in Atlanta -- and we all know Holland is loyal once you're in the family. I wonder if they considered him bringing him back in the '05-10 period.
     
  11. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

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  12. Dotter

    Dotter RIP Fugu

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    Ken Holland sets another milestone that none of us will ever witness again in our lifetime. Kenny passed Jack Adams as the winningest GM in Red Wings’ history.

    Nobody talking about this amazing feat.
     
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  13. The Zetterberg Era

    The Zetterberg Era RIP Fugu

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    Pure class. I think he will be the GM next season but it will be interesting to watch the transfer of power from Holland to Yzerman. He has done substantial leg work for the rebuild so that the Captain really can hit the ground running with some building blocks.
     
  14. lilidk

    lilidk Registered User

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    Red wings fans are spoiled
     
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  15. Datsyukian Deke

    Datsyukian Deke The Captain is Home!!

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    For a time, yes, of course; however, for the last decade, far from it.
     
  16. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

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    not because of Holland
     
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  17. Dotter

    Dotter RIP Fugu

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    The man has been with the organization since July 1997 and people claim he had NOTHING to do with ANY of Wings success, what-so-ever.

    I just can't understand the ignorance. Must be a millennial thing....
     
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  18. lilidk

    lilidk Registered User

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    Yes he has some mistakes , but who doesn't. His biggest one to let go Fillpula and what was happening after. Overall he is one of the best in the business
     
  19. The Zetterberg Era

    The Zetterberg Era RIP Fugu

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    Filppula wouldn't re-sign because of Babcock. There is nothing he could have done on that one.

    I mean Weiss was a good player, maybe not the greatest but him having career ending injuries right away was not expected at all. That was very unfortunate, I don't think that was a bad signing at the time, in terms of a pivot while losing Filppula.
     
  20. Dotter

    Dotter RIP Fugu

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    ^This. And people have annoying 20/20 hindsight vision always forget that Weiss was considered one of the top UFA that year and Ken Holland and the Red Wings were considered winners that year's UFA.

    Sports fans, in general, loveeeee hindsight while ignoring the real facts of the time.
     
  21. Heaton

    Heaton Registered User

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    A tremendous amount of really good GM's make this mistake of holding onto players and losing them for nothing. I wish Holland would've traded Filppula, but I doubt it would've made a different in the grand scheme of things.
     
  22. Dotter

    Dotter RIP Fugu

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    He kinda did trade Filppula. He essentially traded him for Stephen Weiss, which didn't work out (which I don't blame anyone for -- unforeseen circumstances). Now Frans Nielsen.

    While it is true he didn't get a 2nd rounder for Flip, he did get Weiss/Nielsen without giving up assets. Basically a swap that essentially did work out now we have Frans Nielsen signed from UFA.
     
  23. NEWing

    NEWing Registered User

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    No, he lost a pending UFA for nothing. It was known that Filppula did not want to play under Babcock, but Holland thought he could overcome that and sign him.
     
  24. Dotter

    Dotter RIP Fugu

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    And he gained an UFA for nothing. Replacing him and making the situation whole again. It worked out at the end of the day.

    I'm not going to cry over a random 2nd rounder that in hindsight he may have been able to get (as he wanted Flip, made a bet, lost, and lost virtually nothing). He has made up for it in some good trades 10x over again since then.

    Such an insignificant blip that is hardly worth data usage on this forum mentioning, actually.
     
  25. NEWing

    NEWing Registered User

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    By definition, you always get a UFA for nothing.

    Holland tried to make up for the loss of Filppula by getting a UFA in the offseason, and unfortunately it did not work out (and we are still paying for it) .

    Do I think it is a huge blemish on Holland's career, no. But we were in a different position at that point, still fighting in the playoffs. If he traded Filppula before the trade deadline without a replacement, that would have been a bigger problem for the team. We are not in that position today, and should not risk losing pending UFAs for nothing.

    Your logic as presented just doesn't fit what happened in reality.
     

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