The Legacy of Ken Holland

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by FissionFire, Nov 24, 2008.

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  1. Pizzarena91

    Pizzarena91 hot and REaDy Wings

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    Segin's role gets downplayed by the 'Bruins did it' crowd. What a luxury to have a second overall pick to play up and down the lineup.
    http://www.espn.com/nhl/playoffs/2011/columns/story?id=6561720&columnist=burnside_scott

    I just think the last few years should be added to show the full tarnish on this GM's 'has been' status. The posting doesn't tell the full story of how far this team was run into the ground.

    Let's also leave out the fact that they signed a norris HOF defenseman and a vesina goalie. Holland signed Vanek, Helm, Abby, DD, Green and Ott
     
  2. Ezekial

    Ezekial Fil the Thrill

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    So downplayed that he was a healthy scratch the first two rounds and only really had an impact in his first game of the playoffs.
     
  3. Pizzarena91

    Pizzarena91 hot and REaDy Wings

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    He was a luxury player for them that was also still in his development. He almost single handedly won them a playoff game. I would hardly consider that insignificant. Holland still hasn't built the team through free agency and trade where we would sit a second overall pick in the playoffs and he has been working on it for what now 8-9 years? What the bruins did does nothing to help Holland's cause.
     
  4. Pizzarena91

    Pizzarena91 hot and REaDy Wings

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    Serious question:

    When is the last time Holland traded for an elite player
    When is the last time Holland signed an elite player
    When is the last time Holland drafted an elite player
     
  5. Ricelund

    Ricelund We like our team.

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    Hasek in 2001.
    Hossa in 2008.
    Zetterberg in 1999. We'll have to wait and see on Mantha, Larkin, and possibly Mrazek.
     
  6. Claypool

    Claypool Registered User

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    When is the last time this team had a losing season?
     
  7. WingedWheel1987

    WingedWheel1987 Registered User

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    2013-2014 season

    39-28-15 record
     
  8. Top Shelfer

    Top Shelfer Bingo Bango!

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    vanek wants to stay with the wings, sigh. ott isn't played anymore and our one good trade chip has zero desire to be traded to cup contender now lol.
    fire Kenny and out of his element blashill
     
  9. theYman

    theYman Gordie Howe Arena

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  10. theYman

    theYman Gordie Howe Arena

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    Well according to EASports Kronwall is considered an elite player.:D 2000 draft
     
  11. GT500x

    GT500x Im OK where we're at

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    Oh man. I wonder how many years it's been since I abandoned all hope and swore I wouldn't watch this team until Holland is gone. Two? Three? Four? Is Holland gone yet?
     
  12. TatarTangle

    TatarTangle Registered User

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    Nope. And he has full endorsement from Chris Illitch, though you gotta believe he is saying he fully supports Holland because, well, what else is he going to say to the media?

    Signs are pointing everywhere in regards to if he stays or goes so who knows how long he'll be the GM of the Detroit Red Wings
     
  13. stu the grim reaper

    stu the grim reaper Registered User

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    Kenny has a tough job. I think my biggest disappointment in him is how the wings always have had goalie drama. but he was dealt an amazing hand, and he won championships with two very different coaches in a changing league, which I think is his most impressive accomplishment.

    he has protected the brand, which is his most serious responsibility. nobody faults the franchise for losing the playoff streak--instead people applauded. that will be his legacy. if free agents still want to sign with the wings and fans start jumping on the bandwagon the next time the team become ascendant and starts contending again--even if there's no longer anyone on the roster with a 2008 ring--then you will know he really succeeded
     
  14. Bruce Joker

    Bruce Joker Professor X

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    The wings were the best in the NHL for two decades. I don't think anyone will hate the brand unless losing continues for at least 2. It's probably 3-4 decades
     
  15. Pizzarena91

    Pizzarena91 hot and REaDy Wings

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    Just waiting for this legacy to finally be Nuked when updated. Richards signing, Weiss buyout, Cole trade, Helm/Abdelkater lifetime contracts, trading down and missing Chychrun to sign Neilsen lifetime...
     
  16. avssuc

    avssuc Registered User

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    I really hope he makes us eat our words and memes, but he uses every off-season to distance himself from that possibility.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. stu the grim reaper

    stu the grim reaper Registered User

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    how does Holland compare to Dombrowski? makes Holland look pretty good imo...
     
  18. TatarTangle

    TatarTangle Registered User

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    Two very different sports to GM, don't really think you can compare them
     
  19. avssuc

    avssuc Registered User

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    True, but both did well with an open checkbook, so you can make that comparison. I suppose that might not be too difficult a task depending on ones perspective.

    What makes me like Dombrowski more than Holland was what got Dave fired. He had the wisdom and audacity to sell high and return a bounty (going against ownership) when the Tigers were much closer to a championship than the Red Wings. In contrast, Holland re-signed players he could have flipped in contract years and did it with awful terms and cap hits. Holland was likely just trying to keep his job, but I have more respect for a guy that's more concerned with what is right than he is with self preservation. As we all know, it took one of the best orgs in baseball no time at all to end Dave's unemployment. How many NHL teams would be running to sign Ken Holland if he got canned? My guess is zero. I wouldn't trust him to put together a pizza party ('Pizza Pizza'), let alone a hockey team. The game has passed him up and he has no grasp of how to build in a capped league. I fear the longer he's in charge, the longer it will take the Wings to get back to respectability.
     
  20. Frk It

    Frk It From Z to Z

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    First of all, I doubt very much we would ever outright can him. He is going to be moved to a front office role at some point, and they will bring in a new GM, probably some internal guy who was mentored by Holland (unfortunately).

    If he was outright canned, some team would add him to their front office probably immediately, if he wasn't given some consideration for a GM job. But I think he could still grab a GM job depending on how many openings are out there.

    So I'd have to disagree.
     
  21. stu the grim reaper

    stu the grim reaper Registered User

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    in other words dombrowksi knew when the run was over
     
  22. avssuc

    avssuc Registered User

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    You might be correct, but I have a difficult time seeing that. If he were hired, it would be more so because of the legend than his body of work over the last decade. I do agree that he will never get canned, that was more a hypothetical. He doesn't have the nads to do what Dave did.

    The problem for us Detroit fans is that our perspective is pretty polarized. I read your posts regularly, so I think you have a pretty even take, but most either love or hate Holland. I'm a hater, but for some different reasons than most.

    Do you think he would be hired for any specific skill set? My only guess is that name recognition with recruitment and FA contract talks might get him hired.
     
  23. avssuc

    avssuc Registered User

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    And how to reload given the luxury tax situation the Tigers were trying to lessen. Similar to the cap, Dombrowski had to get under a number, be it a much higher and softer one, but that makes the case for what Holland did even worse.

    Dombrowski wasn't afraid to make big changes, something we've never seen from Holland. I think he got so used to being gifted HoF players that part of him thinks that waiting for more is good business. I get that baseball and hockey are very different, but it's pretty easy to see the bold personality of Dombrowski, and compare it to the 'go along to get along' Holland.
     
  24. Frk It

    Frk It From Z to Z

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    A team would want to add him to their organization in some capacity. He has a lot of contacts, experience, knowledge of the game, even if he has been a less effective GM the last 5 years or so.

    If you were bringing him in as a front office guy, I think you would benefit in a big way from his ability to hire and develop front office members (Yzerman, Nill, Fischer, etc.), and then there is where he all got started, his ability to weigh in on scouting, prospects, and the draft.

    If he only wanted to settle for a GM job, I'm not sure how much his reputation may or may not have suffered in the eyes of his peers there. Maybe he'd have to hold out for a little for a GM job, there's pretty limited availability for those roles as well. But if he got fired, I think you'd have massive interest from other teams on adding him to their front office. I mean I can't think of why a team wouldn't. He'd probably go to Toronto and team up with Babcock and Shanahan like tomorrow.

    My only concern with him going to OUR front office is that I think we need more of a fresh voice and someone who is not just agreeable to how things have always been. But at the same time, the guy is a great advisor to have for some of the reasons I listed above.
     
  25. Top Shelfer

    Top Shelfer Bingo Bango!

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    Dombrowski traded to get Miguel Cabrera and Scherzer and Holland well lol.

    We'll see after Kenny retires or gets fired if another NHL calls him to be there GM like Dombrowski got immediately from Boston.
     

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