Kitten Mittons
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2007
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The theme of the episode was lies. Everything said in this episode (goat, birds, nun, Kevin) was a lie because it was a "nicer story". Same with Nora.
But again, the show allows you to believe either side of the story.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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seventieslord
Student Of The Game
As someone who grew disillusioned with the show as it went on, I loved the finale. I take Nora's story at face value.
In the show, there was some science behind the departure (the levels of radiation they noticed) so it's plausible that at least one person in the world managed to create a machine that could recreate the conditions that inexplicably created the departure. I personally didn't believe it. I thought that people were just vaporized and they'd never know that, since they're vaporized, and the people sending them there had no real way of knowing. I thought it was going to be about coping with loss.
But in a nice twist, it turns out these people really were onto something, and they could manufacture departures. And though the departure itself is not explained (and good, it shouldn't be), we find out that the departed think the exact same thing happened to everyone else on the other side. Their world is much more bleak.
Three things that bothered me:
1. They never showed the "alternate" world where the 2% remained.
2. If this scientist emerged on the other side and proved his machine worked, why did it take Nora hunting him down to convince him to create the machine again? If I was that scientist, the first thing I'd want to do is immediately go back to my own reality, screaming "IT WORKED!!! IT WORKED!!!"
3. In the end, what really was the point of the Guilty Remnant?
Side notes:
- They never once addressed the "end of the world" that was supposedly coming. It obviously wasn't, and life went on beyond that, as it always does when lunatics think it's coming.
- Has anyone else thought of that medical lab where Laurie was in episode one? In the alternate reality, everyone disappears and we're left with a fetus on a table dying.
In the show, there was some science behind the departure (the levels of radiation they noticed) so it's plausible that at least one person in the world managed to create a machine that could recreate the conditions that inexplicably created the departure. I personally didn't believe it. I thought that people were just vaporized and they'd never know that, since they're vaporized, and the people sending them there had no real way of knowing. I thought it was going to be about coping with loss.
But in a nice twist, it turns out these people really were onto something, and they could manufacture departures. And though the departure itself is not explained (and good, it shouldn't be), we find out that the departed think the exact same thing happened to everyone else on the other side. Their world is much more bleak.
Three things that bothered me:
1. They never showed the "alternate" world where the 2% remained.
2. If this scientist emerged on the other side and proved his machine worked, why did it take Nora hunting him down to convince him to create the machine again? If I was that scientist, the first thing I'd want to do is immediately go back to my own reality, screaming "IT WORKED!!! IT WORKED!!!"
3. In the end, what really was the point of the Guilty Remnant?
Side notes:
- They never once addressed the "end of the world" that was supposedly coming. It obviously wasn't, and life went on beyond that, as it always does when lunatics think it's coming.
- Has anyone else thought of that medical lab where Laurie was in episode one? In the alternate reality, everyone disappears and we're left with a fetus on a table dying.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Why wouldn't those women take Nora's money and put her in the machine at first? It seems they were "testing" her in some way and she failed. Why did she fail? And why even have a test if you're doing it for huge sums of money to people who really want to get it done?
Or, is it part of the test that you have to go and hunt them down and force them to do it, to prove just how serious you are?
Or, is it part of the test that you have to go and hunt them down and force them to do it, to prove just how serious you are?
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Actually, now that I think about it, not showing the alternate world is important for leaving it up to the viewer whether that really happened or not.
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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That was definitely the idea. The years in between we're not relevant to what story they were telling.
The only thing that had mattered was that Kevin found Nora, and the cut scene where she is delivering the doves is probably where Kevin first saw her
The only thing that had mattered was that Kevin found Nora, and the cut scene where she is delivering the doves is probably where Kevin first saw her
silverfish
got perma'd
While watching it last night, it never even crossed my mind that Nora would be fabricating that story.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Nora implied that the 2% were simply happy to still have each other, which is exactly opposite of the world of the 98%. Thought that was interesting.
silverfish
got perma'd
Incredibly long, but probably necessary, read. I got about 1/3 of the way through (probably less) before remembering I'm at work. May read later...
http://www.vulture.com/2017/06/leftovers-finale-behind-the-scenes-exclusive.html
Most interesting part I read:
http://www.vulture.com/2017/06/leftovers-finale-behind-the-scenes-exclusive.html
Most interesting part I read:
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
what did she say that gave you that idea? maybe I have to re-watch but I didn't get that from it. When she said "they're the lucky ones", she was referring to her family, who only lost one person, as opposed to most families completely vanishing and a few leaving behind one member or maybe in very rare cases two - but certainly not four. Was there something else besides that, that she said that gave you this impression.
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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It was such a brilliant point to consider though about her family. The concept of an alternate world was obviously thought about by the audience, but no one really talked much about the people that were there.
The link silverfish posted tells you how far they went into the future, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't watched yet.
The link silverfish posted tells you how far they went into the future, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't watched yet.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Kevin's genuine joy in seeing Nora again was so amazingly endearing.
I still don't get why he went to so much trouble with his lie.
I still don't get why he went to so much trouble with his lie.
As someone who grew disillusioned with the show as it went on, I loved the finale. I take Nora's story at face value.
In the show, there was some science behind the departure (the levels of radiation they noticed) so it's plausible that at least one person in the world managed to create a machine that could recreate the conditions that inexplicably created the departure. I personally didn't believe it. I thought that people were just vaporized and they'd never know that, since they're vaporized, and the people sending them there had no real way of knowing. I thought it was going to be about coping with loss.
But in a nice twist, it turns out these people really were onto something, and they could manufacture departures. And though the departure itself is not explained (and good, it shouldn't be), we find out that the departed think the exact same thing happened to everyone else on the other side. Their world is much more bleak.
Three things that bothered me:
1. They never showed the "alternate" world where the 2% remained.
2. If this scientist emerged on the other side and proved his machine worked, why did it take Nora hunting him down to convince him to create the machine again? If I was that scientist, the first thing I'd want to do is immediately go back to my own reality, screaming "IT WORKED!!! IT WORKED!!!"
3. In the end, what really was the point of the Guilty Remnant?
Side notes:
- They never once addressed the "end of the world" that was supposedly coming. It obviously wasn't, and life went on beyond that, as it always does when lunatics think it's coming.
- Has anyone else thought of that medical lab where Laurie was in episode one? In the alternate reality, everyone disappears and we're left with a fetus on a table dying.
In regards to 2): I don't think you really can take Nora's story at face value - it was a "truth" that she came up with in order to help herself finally get over her family, and to explain to Kevin why she did what she did. It doesn't even matter whether it is true or not, because Kevin believing her was the point of it.
Relating to 3): the point of the GR (IMO) was to show the drastic ways that people in this show's universe cope with grief/loss. We saw a lot of extreme beliefs/events in this show (Kevin as "Jesus", the party ship with Matt/Laurie/John/Michael, the man on the ship that called himself God, Dean believing that dogs were taking over the world, the naked guy blowing up the submarine, etc) to show how far some people veered off after the departure as a way to find some kind of meaning or way forward.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
I think the show kind of showed that cults had run their course at that point. What they selling was't selling as much, and they got drone strikes for their trouble.
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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Kevin needed to make Nora want to see him. Nora has been in recluse, so he must feel like that's the way she wanted to be. If she shows up and says "hey I'm here, and let's go to a wedding" that's too much. Would be too much of a cliche as well.
One other reason I think the story is true, at the end Nora is finally smiling and happy, maybe truly fit the first time in the whole series that I can remember, you can keep telling untruths to yourself until you start to believe them but living a lie will never truly make you happy. Nora was lying to herself in order to cope with what happened all that time, but by the end she's shuttered everyone out up to and including that nun, and Laurie (who knows like we do that Nora does this but she also doesn't believe Kevin keeps dying either), the pigeons didn't come back, she has this goat and was wearing all these sins. This is her moment, right now, to get at least something, because if he doesn't believe her then it doesn't matter anymore, there's nobody left, it doesn't matter anymore. It's her last chance for any of it to stop even if he doesn't believe her. And as it turned out, he didn't truly care what happened and now he's still trying to find her, so I don't think right now, lying about it does anything for her.
Virtanen18
SAMCRO
Long, but good read (Lindelof discussing the show): http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/the-leftovers-finale-damon-lindelof-recap-review/3/
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Kitten Mittons
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2007
- 48,903
- 80
