The Jordan Thread

[Maestro84]

Big MJ fan but if I were an NBA player I'm not sure I'd thrive being MJ's teammate/co-worker. Dude is just so hardcore and the environment is extremely cut-throat. Every little mishap will get you scolded and everything done right will be the minimum expectation. Great way for some guys, not so great for others as we saw throughout the Jordan era Bulls.

 

[Voight]

 

[Deficient Mode]

It definitely was a favor to Pippen that his own agents requested. If a straight trade to Houston had occurred, the max that he could have been paid was a four year, $45 million dollar deal (11.25 million a year). The sign and trade enabled Pippen to sign a five year, $65 million dollar deal (13 million a year).

I agree that they didn't want to pay the squad in '98 but it absolutely was Reinsdorf's personal policy not to renegotiate contracts. He used that excuse on Jordan as well. And honestly, while it certainly would be nice to pay the people who are making you all that money, no one has any obligation to renegotiate a contract once it's been signed.

Your last statement is true as well but has no bearing on the fact that Pippen acted like a spoiled brat in delaying his surgery that summer. His teammates all said they understood but they also all felt it was a bad decision.

Lastly, fun fact, Jordan was so underpaid that when it was all said and done, Pippen ended up making more money in his NBA career by almost $20 million! Only counting basketball salary of course.

We shouldn't treat his "personal policy" as a matter of principle at all, like he presents it. I've seen too many people use his wording unquestioningly. If he could renegotiate contracts to save himself money he absolutely would do it.

The immense disparity in endorsements absolutely contextualizes why Jordan wasn't as upset about being underpaid as Pippen was until 1996, and you can't compare them from that perspective. He was still making $30 million a year by 1990. Of course he wanted to maximize his contract too when he got the chance. You can criticize Pippen without comparing him to Jordan in this regard.

 

[Voight]

Big MJ fan but if I were an NBA player I'm not sure I'd thrive being MJ's teammate/co-worker. Dude is just so hardcore and the environment is extremely cut-throat. Every little mishap will get you scolded and everything done right will be the minimum expectation. Great way for some guys, not so great for others as we saw throughout the Jordan era Bulls.

I will gladly take the verbal abuse in exchange for a couple of championship rings.

He did cheat on Juanita and they had a contentious divorce.

He is not a perfect person, but from what I have read over the years he is a great father.

Hell, at least he doesn't have 11 kids scattered all over the country like Rodgers-Cromartie.

 

[Cassano]

Big MJ fan but if I were an NBA player I'm not sure I'd thrive being MJ's teammate/co-worker. Dude is just so hardcore and the environment is extremely cut-throat. Every little mishap will get you scolded and everything done right will be the minimum expectation. Great way for some guys, not so great for others as we saw throughout the Jordan era Bulls.

For a sport as individualistic as basketball, I can't help but disagree.

What about a teammate that says this:

“I almost won an MVP with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown on my team,” Bryant said before Wednesday’s 93-75 exhibition loss to Portland. “I was shooting 45 times a game. What was I supposed to do? Pass it to Chris Mihm or Kwame Brown…”
Bryant continued, taking aim at his favorite whipping boy, Parker, calling him “the worst. He shouldn’t have been in the NBA but we were too cheap to pay for a point guard. So we let him walk on.”​

To play with the best players in the sport, you need to keep your ego in check and know your place ultimately.

 

[Aladyyn]

For a sport as individualistic as basketball, I can't help but disagree.

What about a teammate that says this:



To play with the best players in the sport, you need to keep your ego in check and know your place ultimately.

Not every great player is an asshole.

 

[The Shadow]

Not every great player is an asshole.

Exactly for every Jordan or other bully there are the David Robinson’s, John Stocktons and Tim Duncan’s who excelled without having to be that way

 

[Cassano]

Not every great player is an asshole.

Not every, but majority of competitive athletes (especially highly paid, star players) likely are.

 

[Aladyyn]

Not every, but majority of competitive athletes (especially highly paid, star players) likely are.

You're basing this on the sample size of two players in 30 years?

 

[Cassano]

You're basing this on the sample size of two players in 30 years?

I thought it was commonly known that most celebrities/competitive athletes are assholes.

 

[Deficient Mode]

For a sport as individualistic as basketball, I can't help but disagree.

What about a teammate that says this:



To play with the best players in the sport, you need to keep your ego in check and know your place ultimately.

Jordan's treatment of teammates went way way beyond checking outsized egos for the good of the team; come on. I wish people would stop treating this behavior as beneficial to the team; they certainly would have won just as much if Jordan had a different personality.

Funny how all of the most egregious Kobe being a terrible teammate quotes come from when the Lakers had terrible supporting casts rather than from either the Pau or Shaq years, and I guess you're trying to use this as an example of winning mentality.

I thought it was commonly known that most celebrities/competitive athletes are assholes.

A lot of them are to some degree. I don't think many come close to Jordan.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Reinsdorf's "policy" was just one of his many ways of absolving himself of any blame, which he could then dump all on Krause.

 

[Cassano]

Jordan's treatment of teammates went way way beyond checking outsized egos for the good of the team; come on. I wish people would stop treating this behavior as beneficial to the team; they certainly would have won just as much if Jordan had a different personality.

Funny how all of the most egregious Kobe being a terrible teammate quotes come from when the Lakers had terrible supporting casts rather than from either the Pau or Shaq years, and I guess you're trying to use this as an example of winning mentality.



A lot of them are to some degree. I don't think many come close to Jordan.

Maybe it's because I just don't see athletes in that light (besides Muhammad Ali). For MJ, he's just a guy who's insanely good at basketball and truly believes he is better than anyone at everything they do. That will rub people off the wrong way. It's not like he is openly denying a movement for people's freedoms or something.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Maybe it's because I just don't see athletes in that light (besides Muhammad Ali). For MJ, he's just a guy who's insanely good at basketball and truly believes he is better than anyone at everything they do. That will rub people off the wrong way. It's not like he is openly denying a movement for people's freedoms or something.

This is also an extremely insufficient way of describing his behavior. Lots of players have unending self-belief. Far more than ever were the best at the game. He didn't just passively "rub" people the wrong way. He went out of his way to bully McCray, Cartwright, and others. He bullied Kwame Brown and Jerry Krause with remarks that had nothing to do with the game of basketball. He was an asshole and he was the best at basketball. He wasn't an asshole because he was the best at basketball - like you seem to be arguing here - and he wasn't the best at basketball because he was an asshole.

 

[Cassano]

This is also an extremely insufficient way of describing his behavior. Lots of players have unending self-belief. Far more than ever were the best at the game. He didn't just passively "rub" people the wrong way. He went out of his way to bully McCray, Cartwright, and others. He bullied Kwame Brown and Jerry Krause with remarks that had nothing to do with the game of basketball. He was an asshole and he was the best at basketball. He wasn't an asshole because he was the best at basketball - like you seem to be arguing here - and he wasn't the best at basketball because he was an asshole.

I would say almost all pro athletes are assholes of varying degrees. It is the unfortunate nature of competitive sports.

And I stand by that, if you are the best at what you do, you're probably going to be arrogant.

I don't think it made MJ better, but then again, the documentary points to him creating scenarios to motivate himself so perhaps this was his personal bouts were sick twisted ways of motivation. The post I originally replied to said the person wouldn't want to be MJ's teammate, but I simply have the stance of what did you expect when being around the most popular person on earth at the time?

 

[Voight]

Not every great player is an asshole.

Jordan was pushing his team mates to be the best they can be. Can't sugar coat everything and be nice to them.

 

[Aladyyn]

Jordan was pushing his team mates to be the best they can be. Can't sugar coat everything and be nice to them.

Noted selfless team first guy Michael Jordan only wanted the best for his pals.

And then you woke up.

 

[Maestro84]

I will gladly take the verbal abuse in exchange for a couple of championship rings.

Well in that case, I’d rather be Duncan, Hakeem, Curry, Kawhi or even LeBron’s teammate since your team would have great success without having to be constantly chewed out by one of your co-workers

Jordan’s the GOAT but there’s no way I could ever co-exist on the same team with someone like him and it’s not like that’s the only way to be successful

 

[clydesdale line]

I believe it was Tiger Woods’ lawyer that warned him to stay away from Jordan. He said besides basketball he is good for nothing

There's a story out there that Jordan, Woods and Derek Jeter were out at a club together one night when Tiger was younger. I highly doubt that he "stayed away from him" often.

 

[Stylizer1]

Jordan said it best that those other guys didn't have to go through what he went through to get where he was. Guys would walk onto a championship team and take it for granted. He made sure they were sharp so it wouldn't affect future championships. Toni Kukoc didn't know how to win but when Jordan came back it was a wake up call for sure. The 2nd 3 peat was with a completely different roster. None of those guys besides Pippen and Rodman knew what it took.

 

[DoyleG]

This is also an extremely insufficient way of describing his behavior. Lots of players have unending self-belief. Far more than ever were the best at the game. He didn't just passively "rub" people the wrong way. He went out of his way to bully McCray, Cartwright, and others. He bullied Kwame Brown and Jerry Krause with remarks that had nothing to do with the game of basketball. He was an asshole and he was the best at basketball. He wasn't an asshole because he was the best at basketball - like you seem to be arguing here - and he wasn't the best at basketball because he was an asshole.

The reason Cartwright got the abuse from Jordan had more to do that he was traded for MJs buddy Charles Oakley. Grant got the same treatment as his development made Oakley redundant and easier for Krause to make the trade. Same situation showed up with Sellers, who got drafted instead of his friend Johnny Dawkins.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

TLD: "I had nothing to do with Isiah not making the dream team".. 2 days later: Jordan audio from years ago "I won't play if Isiah is on the team".

Can't wait to see the Jordan dick riders excuses for this one. Dude is a liar, a snitch, a hypocrite, threw his team mates under the bus, ungrateful sob who couldn't win 1 playoff series without Pippen but had no problem trashing him.. but people ride this guy so hard. Yeah but "winning". Yeah, no Pippen = no winning. Every championship run Pippen led in APG, RPG, SPG, BPG and defended the opposition's best player. MJ most overrated player ever and probably the worst team mate ever too.

 

[Cassano]

I don't see why Isiah exclusion is a big deal. The Dream Team still destroyed everyone and performed up to expectations (and perhaps even exceeded) without Isiah. Plenty of great players including John Stockton didn't make the team either. Even in hockey, Chris Kunitz and Rick Nash made the Olympic team over Giroux and won without breaking a sweat. Who cares?

It's not like it's the US Olympic Team in 2004 that refused to take Kobe and ended up with a humiliating leBronze.

 

[Soundwave]

TLD: "I had nothing to do with Isiah not making the dream team".. 2 days later: Jordan audio from years ago "I won't play if Isiah is on the team".

Can't wait to see the Jordan dick riders excuses for this one. Dude is a liar, a snitch, a hypocrite, threw his team mates under the bus, ungrateful sob who couldn't win 1 playoff series without Pippen but had no problem trashing him.. but people ride this guy so hard. Yeah but "winning". Yeah, no Pippen = no winning. Every championship run Pippen led in APG, RPG, SPG, BPG and defended the opposition's best player. MJ most overrated player ever and probably the worst team mate ever too.

This is just stupid. For starters Pippen barely has more APG and SPG than Jordan in the playoffs, while Jordan scores way more. Like I saw a stat that shows Scottie average 1 extra assist over Jordan every playoff round ... whoopity doo, that's basically a statisical tie. Pippen's shooting percentage in the last three titles was also atrocious, going 39%-41% at times.

Magic and Bird didn't want Isiah Thomas on the Dream Team either, Magic had a much more serious feud with Isiah where they didn't talk to each other for like 15 years.

Any of the top 10 players (Jordan, Wilt, Shaq, Magic, Bird, LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, etc.) would have won titles eventually in their career because they're simply too good to be held down forever.

These narratives were dumb when they were put on Kobe (can't win without Shaq ... uh nope) and Jordan is better than Kobe.

 

[Soundwave]

lol Jordan is notorious for staying up late/smoking cigars/drinking the night before games

He even drank 2 beers on gameday during the Finals, it's in TLD

The only time he went ou during the playoffs he was spotted (1993 ECF), that's why he would do most of his fun stuff in hus hote room

So no it's not assclownery

Ad let's say the pizza story was true; by your logic a respnsible professional athlere shouldn't be eating a whole pizza by himself during a championship series
That's not really healthy

Athletes drink a beer after a game all the time, I recall the beer drinking actually was recommended to Jordan BY a doctor as something that can settle you down after a game because adrenalin is pumping sky high.

Even playing in beer league hockey if I have a late game, like 9:30-10:30 PM start I find I'm often still wired by 1 AM or later which sucks if you have to be up early.

When you are one of the greatest athletes on the planet and looking at Jordan's physique, had basically no real body fat, almost all muscle ... then you can lecture him on being in shape, lol.

Dude was in unbelievable shape with phenomenonmal endurance, a beer or two is not going to phase someone like that.