The Jordan Thread

[Power Man]

I would because nothing we've known about Jordan, even before the documentary series, indicates someone with his competitiveness would risk anything.To suggest otherwise, is just typical HFBoards assclownery, similar to Kardi +1st for Crosby.

lol Jordan is notorious for staying up late/smoking cigars/drinking the night before games

He even drank 2 beers on gameday during the Finals, it's in TLD

The only time he went ou during the playoffs he was spotted (1993 ECF), that's why he would do most of his fun stuff in hus hote room

So no it's not assclownery

Ad let's say the pizza story was true; by your logic a respnsible professional athlere shouldn't be eating a whole pizza by himself during a championship series
That's not really healthy

 

[Jussi]

lol Jordan is notorious for staying up late/smoking cigars/drinking the night before games

He even drank 2 beers on gameday during the Finals, it's in TLD

The only time he went ou during the playoffs he was spotted (1993 ECF), that's why he would do most of his fun stuff in hus hote room

So no it's not assclownery

Ad let's say the pizza story was true; by your logic a respnsible professional athlere shouldn't be eating a whole pizza by himself during a championship series
That's not really healthy

Well first of all, professional athletes tend to spend more calories than average, second, nutrition wasn't quite at current levels in -98.

I saw the 2 beers part, again that's far from getting drunk enough to get a hangover. Michael Jordan definitely knew his limits in -98. So yes, it IS assclownery.

 

[Terry Yake]

i'm surprised people didn't know jordan's "flu game" was because of food poisoning

there was an article that came out a few years ago talking about it

 

[The Shadow]

One take away from the Last Dance was that Jordan really was a jerk and a bully.

if he wasn’t as good as he was coaches wouldn’t put up with it

listen to the feedback of Horace about Jordan calling him a snitch. Jordan really was an a hole and took it way too far with teammates

 

[The Shadow]

Also there was very little about his kids and being a good family man. That says a lot

I believe it was Tiger Woods’ lawyer that warned him to stay away from Jordan. He said besides basketball he is good for nothing

 

[The Shadow]

Makes you realize how awesome Gretzky was. Nobody can ever say anything bad about him. He was a world class athlete with class and humble.

 

[Voight]

Also there was very little about his kids and being a good family man. That says a lot

I believe it was Tiger Woods’ lawyer that warned him to stay away from Jordan. He said besides basketball he is good for nothing

His kids were in it...... what did you want them to do, spend half the episodes talking about his family life? Maybe hes a private person ? TLD was about his career, no need to involve his family in it.

If Jordan was a crap father or husband, I have no doubt we'd of heard about it by now.

 

[Cassano]

One take away from the Last Dance was that Jordan really was a jerk and a bully.

if he wasn’t as good as he was coaches wouldn’t put up with it

listen to the feedback of Horace about Jordan calling him a snitch. Jordan really was an a hole and took it way too far with teammates

Killer mentality.

LeBron is great with his teammates, but got scrubs like JR and TT paid and that hurt his Cavs teams and those players were negative contributors in the playoffs afterwards.

 

[Hasbro]

His kids were in it...... what did you want them to do, spend half the episodes talking about his family life? Maybe hes a private person ? TLD was about his career, no need to involve his family in it.

If Jordan was a crap father or husband, I have no doubt we'd of heard about it by now.

He did cheat on Juanita and they had a contentious divorce.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

How much did MJ pay ESPN to make them not feature the part where Mike Tyson wanted to kick his ass for messing around with Robin Givens?

 

[Kaner9]

The Last dance was great. I love me some badass MJ! It was nice to see some of his dirt even if its the dirt he wanted to show.

 

[frisco]

If Jordan had final say of the final cut was it truly a tell-all documentary? To me, Phil Jackson is the hero of the Bulls' dynasty. I doubt if any other coach on earth could've managed that situation as well as he did. Jordan was toxic to the extreme. When that's your best player it can go bad in so many different ways. Also, MJ in seven seasons without Jackson as coach = zero titles.

My Best-Carey

 

[Deficient Mode]

If Jordan had final say of the final cut was it truly a tell-all documentary? To me, Phil Jackson is the hero of the Bulls' dynasty. I doubt if any other coach on earth could've managed that situation as well as he did. Jordan was toxic to the extreme. When that's your best player it can go bad in so many different ways. Also, MJ in seven seasons without Jackson as coach = zero titles.

My Best-Carey

They would have won titles with a different coach. Jordan's title/non-title years had more to do with Pippen's emergence as a top 5-10 player in 1991 vs. a lack of a high level sidekick before that+his own obvious decline in Washington. It could have gone wrong but him being the best player in the world by such a large margin gave him a ton of leeway to mistreat his teammates and still have their trust, no matter who the coach was.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Jordan had the final word on what went in TLD. That's why basically everyone else looks bad and he looks like this guy with a "win at all costs" mentality. The way Pippen was portrayed in TLD was an absolute disgrace and reports from Chicago are that Pippen is pissed. MJ the "GOAT" couldn't win a playoff series without Pip yet he's in there calling him selfish for wanting $$, focusing on footage from a season MJ wasn't even playing, etc. Don't have a problem with anyone calling him the GOAT, but he's a clown.

 

[Cassano]

Jordan had the final word on what went in TLD. That's why basically everyone else looks bad and he looks like this guy with a "win at all costs" mentality. The way Pippen was portrayed in TLD was an absolute disgrace and reports from Chicago are that Pippen is pissed. MJ the "GOAT" couldn't win a playoff series without Pip yet he's in there calling him selfish for wanting $$, focusing on footage from a season MJ wasn't even playing, etc. Don't have a problem with anyone calling him the GOAT, but he's a clown.

I didn't get that impression at all from watching the documentary about Pippen. In fact, I thought they did pretty well portraying him as a guy who scarified for the team (severely underpaid, playing through injuries in finals, etc). The only potential controversial thing I found from his portrayal was his selfishness to come off the bench for the Kukoc winner, which was truthfully one of the most selfish moments of all time in sports.

 

[Cassano]

If Jordan had final say of the final cut was it truly a tell-all documentary? To me, Phil Jackson is the hero of the Bulls' dynasty. I doubt if any other coach on earth could've managed that situation as well as he did. Jordan was toxic to the extreme. When that's your best player it can go bad in so many different ways. Also, MJ in seven seasons without Jackson as coach = zero titles.

My Best-Carey

Phil was the one who ultimately made the call to end the dynasty. Any coach could've willed a team built around MJ and Pippen to multiple titles besides maybe Mike Keenan if he switches over Lol.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I didn't get that impression at all from watching the documentary about Pippen. In fact, I thought they did pretty well portraying him as a guy who scarified for the team (severely underpaid, playing through injuries in finals, etc). The only potential controversial thing I found from his portrayal was his selfishness to come off the bench for the Kukoc winner, which was truthfully one of the most selfish moments of all time in sports.

Jordan thinks Pippen was being selfish in regards to contract negotiations. Jordan questioned the severity of Pips migraine vs the pistons. Pippen not coming off the bench was in a season MJ wasn't in the league. 99% of TLD is about MJ so it's weird how the 1% that wasn't, ended up being about Pips worst moment that had nothing to do with MJ or 97/98. TLD is from MJ's perspective, it's just another ego trip for him.

 

[swerdnase]

Pippen was selfish because he waited to have his surgery done to get back at the Bulls management. Instead of having it done during the summer so he would be ready at camp he waited and ultimately didn't start his season until January. Pippen stated in TLD, "I decided to have surgery late because I was like, 'You know what, I'm not going to f--- my summer up." Totally selfish and a bad move by Pippen. Both of Pippen's agents and Reinsdorf had told him not to sign the contract that he ended up with. Everyone knew that Reinsdorf's position was that he did not renegotiate contracts. You sign a contract you play honor it.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I didn't get that impression at all from watching the documentary about Pippen. In fact, I thought they did pretty well portraying him as a guy who scarified for the team (severely underpaid, playing through injuries in finals, etc). The only potential controversial thing I found from his portrayal was his selfishness to come off the bench for the Kukoc winner, which was truthfully one of the most selfish moments of all time in sports.

Nah man. It was a pro-MJ puff piece.

The ONLY time they REALLY focused on Pippen were:

1) Sitting out the first part of 1998
2) Quitting in the playoffs

Sure, one episode told his story a LITTLE bit, but that's the two big things they focused on. I would be pissed too if I were him.

 

[Cassano]

Nah man. It was a pro-MJ puff piece.

The ONLY time they REALLY focused on Pippen were:

1) Sitting out the first part of 1998
2) Quitting in the playoffs

Sure, one episode told his story a LITTLE bit, but that's the two big things they focused on. I would be pissed too if I were him.

This is not true at all. Jordan was very positive about him throughout, besides the instances where Pippen refused to play - which is true! It is very selfish from a team perspective. Furthermore, Pippen said he would quit on his team again if given the choice for a re-do (his words!).

Despite those instances, the documentary made it out for the viewer to be very empathetic with Pippen for taking pay-cuts to play for a dynasty, playing through severe injuries and being empathetic to Jordan retiring and Rodman needing his Vegas coke binge/load management' I felt.
I gained a new profound respect for him and was happy to read up that he got paid by the Rockets/Trailblazers later in his career in addition to his 6 rings.

 

[swerdnase]

... and was happy to read up that he got paid by the Rockets/Trailblazers later in his career in addition to his 6 rings.

Actually, the Bulls did him a favor in doing a sign and trade with the the Rockets. That enabled Pippen to make about 20 extra million dollars over the course of the new contract. Everyone agreed that Pippen was underpaid but Reinsdorf had his no renegotiation policy and stood by his guns. He never offered to renegotiate Jordan's contract either which is why Jordan's last years were one year deals.

 

[Stylizer1]

Actually, the Bulls did him a favor in doing a sign and trade with the the Rockets. That enabled Pippen to make about 20 extra million dollars over the course of the new contract. Everyone agreed that Pippen was underpaid but Reinsdorf had his no renegotiation policy and stood by his guns. He never offered to renegotiate Jordan's contract either which is why Jordan's last years were one year deals.

Yeah Jordan was underpaid most of his career but didn't bitch about it. Pippen came off as selfish during those later years and was daring them to trade him. Jordan respected the hell out of Pippen but didn't agree with his decisions.

 

[Deficient Mode]

The Pippen sign-and-trade benefited Pippen and the Bulls. That's not a favor. Reinsdorf didn't renegotiate contracts out of principle, but because he didn't want to pay players more money. Same reason they decided not to bring back the whole old squad in 1998.

Yeah Jordan was underpaid most of his career but didn't bitch about it. Pippen came off as selfish during those later years and was daring them to trade him. Jordan respected the hell out of Pippen but didn't agree with his decisions.

Jordan also made close to 10x his basketball salary per year from endorsements by 1990 when he was still grossly underpaid. Pippen's marketing star was far, far dimmer, and he hadn't secured his long-term fortune off the court.

 

[swerdnase]

The Pippen sign-and-trade benefited Pippen and the Bulls. That's not a favor. Reinsdorf didn't renegotiate contracts out of principle, but because he didn't want to pay players more money. Same reason they decided not to bring back the whole old squad in 1998.



Jordan also made close to 10x his basketball salary per year from endorsements by 1990 when he was still grossly underpaid. Pippen's marketing star was far, far dimmer, and he hadn't secured his long-term fortune off the court.

It definitely was a favor to Pippen that his own agents requested. If a straight trade to Houston had occurred, the max that he could have been paid was a four year, $45 million dollar deal (11.25 million a year). The sign and trade enabled Pippen to sign a five year, $65 million dollar deal (13 million a year).

I agree that they didn't want to pay the squad in '98 but it absolutely was Reinsdorf's personal policy not to renegotiate contracts. He used that excuse on Jordan as well. And honestly, while it certainly would be nice to pay the people who are making you all that money, no one has any obligation to renegotiate a contract once it's been signed.

Your last statement is true as well but has no bearing on the fact that Pippen acted like a spoiled brat in delaying his surgery that summer. His teammates all said they understood but they also all felt it was a bad decision.

Lastly, fun fact, Jordan was so underpaid that when it was all said and done, Pippen ended up making more money in his NBA career by almost $20 million! Only counting basketball salary of course.

 

[Stylizer1]

Jordan also made close to 10x his basketball salary per year from endorsements by 1990 when he was still grossly underpaid. Pippen's marketing star was far, far dimmer, and he hadn't secured his long-term fortune off the court.

That's a separate issue.