2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

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Whoshattenkirkshoes

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Aug 11, 2014
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I'd like to see Gourde back with Point. And Stamkos and Kuch. Fill in the rest with the others. But, this would get us 2 scoring lines, get Gourde going again, and maybe make those 2 better on D. Maybe Cirelli with Stamkos and Kuch. And Palat with Point and Gourde.


This is not a bad idea. I would like to run with The current combos for a while and see how they play out. I much like them
Also.

In the above scenario I would worry about the Tyler Johnson line
 

Werewolf

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Oct 29, 2013
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Who in the entire hell cares about the regular season?

He did a hell of a motivation job in game 7 vs the Pens. And in game 7 vs the Caps. Oh and his motivation last year in the playoffs? Top notch.

This guy knows hockey, folks.

Who cares about the regular season...? LOL, I already proved you wrong on motivation and your best line is ... “well, doesnt even matter anyways”?Serves me right for engaging the non-sensical peanut gallery.

Caps and Pens were better teams. I am ok with that. As to last year’s playoffs, already been addressed ad nauseam. I dont claim to be an expert on hockey ... do you? I love this type of engagement ... fan on random anonymous site claims superiority over fan on random anonymous forum due to his credentials as an anonymous fan about “knowing hocking” ... lmao.
 

Lolaimbot

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Nov 20, 2016
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Caps and Pens were better teams. I am ok with that.
No, they weren't. We had 3-2 lead in BOTH of those series, we had the talent to keep up with both of them and we still choked both of those series (zero f***ing goals in games 6 & 7 against caps). There is obviously something wrong with the coaching, I am not saying it's only Coopers fault but at this point he should be the thing that gets changed.
 

Werewolf

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Oct 29, 2013
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Talking about "lazy analysis," those are lame excuses as to why a 62 win team got swept, I mean you keep bringing up 62 wins - you'd think a team that good has enough depth to win 1 game.

Thanks for bringing up Coburn, that's the guy Cooper healthy scratched in game 1 to play Rutta right?

Glad you bring up Coburn. Its my take that he was also going through an injury ... he wasnt played in game 3 either. Rutta played cause he had to ... i have no reason to believe Rutta would be the choice with a healthy Coburn and defensive corps as the only time Rutta drew-in since his acquisition IN MID JANUARY was 10 games. If Cooper thought he was better than Coburn he would have played a significant amount of games and he just plain didnt. The games he played also included drawing in when Hedman went down for a concussion with 4 games to go in the season and Stralman’s injury. And Rutta is on the bench now ... and Coburn is starting. So that pretty much renders your point completely mute. So this is better more interesting debate, but fire Cooper chant around here is still comically early.
 
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Werewolf

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No, they weren't. We had 3-2 lead in BOTH of those series, we had the talent to keep up with both of them and we still choked both of those series (zero ****ing goals in games 6 & 7 against caps). There is obviously something wrong with the coaching, I am not saying it's only Coopers fault but at this point he should be the thing that gets changed.

What was the so obvious coaching blunder that caused us to lose both series? We got outplayed in both series...i’d contend we were lucky to be in that 3 - 2 series lead / position to begin with. And who do you think was coaching the team while we were up 3 - 2 in both series? We got outplayed in both series by a superior team ... like i said before. I’d like you or anyone to change my mind. Better more interesting conversation than “fire cooper”!
 

Lolaimbot

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Nov 20, 2016
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What was the so obvious coaching blunder that caused us to lose both series? We got outplayed in both series...i’d contend we were lucky to be in that 3 - 2 series lead / position to begin with. And who do you think was coaching the team while we were up 3 - 2 in both series? We got outplayed in both series by a superior team ... like i said before. I’d like you or anyone to change my mind. Better more interesting conversation than “fire cooper”!
I am not here to change anyones mind, just saying what I think. At the moment I think a coaching change could be the catalyst this team needs to push them over the top.

How many chances are you willing to give him?
 

DFC

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What was the so obvious coaching blunder that caused us to lose both series? We got outplayed in both series...i’d contend we were lucky to be in that 3 - 2 series lead / position to begin with. And who do you think was coaching the team while we were up 3 - 2 in both series? We got outplayed in both series by a superior team ... like i said before. I’d like you or anyone to change my mind. Better more interesting conversation than “fire cooper”!
I think you're under-estimating how well Vasy played in those. We were up 3-2 in both series because Vasy played out of his mind while we got dominated on the ice.
 
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Werewolf

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I am not here to change anyones mind, just saying what I think. At the moment I think a coaching change could be the catalyst this team needs to push them over the top.

How many chances are you willing to give him?

I’m willing to give him honest chances to win the cup. The Lightning losing to a good team in which our team was decimated by injuries, which has happened a few times, is no reason to fire one of the best coaches in the league.

Its like the story of that dog holding a bone in its mouth who looks at his reflection in the river and decides to jump in after the bigger bone. Needless to say he loses the bone he had in the river... and the bigger bone was just a reflection and wasnt real. Chasing greener pastures, goose that laid the golden egg, hindsight is ... anyways take your pic.

Patience ... and enjoy being fans. This team is good, our coach is good, our front office is good. We’ll make the playoffs regardless of individual game performances and team losses, then i hope this team, coach, and front office gets an honest, healthy shot at a run for the cup.
 

Lolaimbot

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Nov 20, 2016
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I’m willing to give him honest chances to win the cup. The Lightning losing to a good team in which our team was decimated by injuries, which has happened a few times, is no reason to fire one of the best coaches in the league.

Its like the story of that dog holding a bone in its mouth who looks at his reflection in the river and decides to jump in after the bigger bone. Needless to say he loses the bone he had in the river... and the bigger bone was just a reflection and wasnt real. Chasing greener pastures, goose that laid the golden egg, hindsight is ... anyways take your pic.

Patience ... and enjoy being fans. This team is good, our coach is good, our front office is good. We’ll make the playoffs regardless of individual game performances and team losses, then i hope this team, coach, and front office gets an honest, healthy shot at a run for the cup.
I agree that it would be amazing if this team won the cup with Cooper after everything they've been through together. I still don't think it is unreasonable to wish for a coaching change after this season if they fail again.

Pittsburgh also won a cup without their #1 defender, Washington played games without Backström etc... So as it is not only about coaching it is not only about injuries either.
 

God King Fudge

Championship Swag
Oct 13, 2017
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Guys I'm just downright excited that we have a good team. Gosh darnit who cares if we don't win a Cup. We have a good team! Have you seen how good Cooper is at chewing gum? He's a great coach.

We won 62 games last season!
 

Bozo Nicholson

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DFC

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Everyone hated playing for Scotty Bowman.

Cooper wants 23 friends.

I know I reference those old Wing teams too much... But the thing that really sticks out to me lately is how, as star-studded as they were, it was the system that won them games--the famed "Left Wing Lock" (kind of a glorified trap, but still).

The games we win because we stick to a plan are few and far between.
 

Master P

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Mar 31, 2016
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I know I reference those old Wing teams too much... But the thing that really sticks out to me lately is how, as star-studded as they were, it was the system that won them games--the famed "Left Wing Lock" (kind of a glorified trap, but still).

The games we win because we stick to a plan are few and far between.
I think the problem is that Coopers game plan only works when things go exactly as planned. When other teams interrupt the passing plays or when passes are off then the game plan falls apart. His coaching strategy is based on skill plays. When teams take that away then the players are left banging their heads against the wall.
 

DFC

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I think the problem is that Coopers game plan only works when things go exactly as planned. When other teams interrupt the passing plays or when passes are off then the game plan falls apart. His coaching strategy is based on skill plays. When teams take that away then the players are left banging their heads against the wall.

I think that's exactly right, and it's why we see so much frustration on the ice when things don't work.
 
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Coopers Gum

Extend Andrej Sustr
Mar 6, 2012
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I'm a teacher; coaching is very similar to teaching, and my philosophy is this: fear and respect go hand in hand. No, you don't want to be an asshole every day, but to have the "blow up" in your back pocket and to use it when necessary is f***ing essential to my teaching, and I think everyone who is a teacher would benefit from it. Rarely used, the blow up is a HIGHLY effective tool. But if you're blowing up every day, they tune it out.

I'd imagine the players are tuning out the positivity approach. Kids do the same thing with a teacher who just keeps going... "guys... hey guys... listen please... guys..."

Yes, these guys should be just a little bit afraid of the "authority figure." Coop shouldn't be there to make friends. He's there to win hockey games. Teachers aren't there to be your friend, they're there to educate you. Do you make some great relationships along the way? For sure. But when they f*** up and cross the line, you've got to push them back to the other side, sometimes harshly. That's what earns respect.

After reading this, I sound like a f***ing prick in my classroom :laugh: I'm really not.
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
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The Stamkos stat (37% of his career goals were PP goals) made me think. The Lightning have notoriously been lethal on the man advantage in the past couple years. And it's a known fact that the referees swallow their whistles during the playoffs and penalties get called a lot less often. Are we too reliant on the PP? Is our mediocre 5v5 the real issue?
 

DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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I'm a teacher; coaching is very similar to teaching, and my philosophy is this: fear and respect go hand in hand. No, you don't want to be an ******* every day, but to have the "blow up" in your back pocket and to use it when necessary is ****ing essential to my teaching, and I think everyone who is a teacher would benefit from it. Rarely used, the blow up is a HIGHLY effective tool. But if you're blowing up every day, they tune it out.

I'd imagine the players are tuning out the positivity approach. Kids do the same thing with a teacher who just keeps going... "guys... hey guys... listen please... guys..."

Yes, these guys should be just a little bit afraid of the "authority figure." Coop shouldn't be there to make friends. He's there to win hockey games. Teachers aren't there to be your friend, they're there to educate you. Do you make some great relationships along the way? For sure. But when they **** up and cross the line, you've got to push them back to the other side, sometimes harshly. That's what earns respect.

After reading this, I sound like a ****ing prick in my classroom :laugh: I'm really not.
Nah, I think this explains at least one facet of the problem very well. I believe the Xs and Os are our biggest issue, but the lack of consequences for poor play/bad habits is concerning as well.
 

DFC

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This also means we are better when we are outshot. Vasi likes it hot.
We win a lot of games when we're outshot because last night was like the perfect illustration of a typical Lightning game. We show up late, turn on the jets for about 8 minutes, long enough to score 3-4 goals, and then sit on our lead while Vasy bails us out.

Whatever Jon Cooper hockey used to be, this is what it has become.
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
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The Stamkos stat (37% of his career goals were PP goals) made me think. The Lightning have notoriously been lethal on the man advantage in the past couple years. And it's a known fact that the referees swallow their whistles during the playoffs and penalties get called a lot less often. Are we too reliant on the PP? Is our mediocre 5v5 the real issue?

To a degree yes. Half the time I feel like I'm watching the Boucher Lightning from back in the day.
 
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