2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

[TampaBoltz]

I'd like to see Gourde back with Point. And Stamkos and Kuch. Fill in the rest with the others. But, this would get us 2 scoring lines, get Gourde going again, and maybe make those 2 better on D. Maybe Cirelli with Stamkos and Kuch. And Palat with Point and Gourde.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

And I'll eat my crow with feathers.

I've been probably the longest Cooper holdout this board has and even I'm done. I have defended him far and wide from playoff injuries to asking in 2015-2016 "How are we supposed to succeed when Callahan scores once in 41 games and he's eating top 6 minutes? Our offense is nothing to write home about we need better talent" when people very first started calling him out. It's been a long.... long time. And again even I have worn out on it. I am rarely this patient with coaches. I'm seeing a team that has nothing to play for right now and it's once again feeling sorry for itself. I won't blame Cooper for all of it but I'm struggling to see how the locker room is going to continue to respond to him after this much failure.

We're battling collective human nature as much as we anything else. It doesn't mean Cooper sucks. He's been very successful. It means that it's likely he is no longer the right man to lead us because there's MAYBE a fracture that can't be repaired because they're starting to play like it right now and it's concerning.

That's sort of where I'm at. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for quite a while (it's not like he's done a poor job overall), but last year really left a bad taste in my mouth. Our team was thoroughly unprepared for playoff hockey, and that starts with coaching.

I don't think Cooper is necessarily a bad coach in a vacuum, and I do think he runs a solid system, but the team needs a spark and a game plan when the going gets tough. We never seem to play to our opponents' weaknesses - we trot out the same system regardless of who we're playing, and struggle to adapt when they plan for us. We've overpowered inferior teams in the playoffs and withered when we face someone with comparable talent.

I think it's time for a new voice.

 

[Werewolf]

They’ll win the next two games ... and then everyone will switch camps. Then they’ll lose one and the sky will be falling...etc, etc, etc. and on the wheel you all go around and around again. People have been on the fire Cooper bandwagon for years now ... never change HF.

 

[Sky04]

They’ll win the next two games ... and then everyone will switch camps. Then they’ll lose one and the sky will be falling...etc, etc, etc. and on the wheel you all go around and around again. People have been on the fire Cooper bandwagon for years now ... never change HF.

Lets say they lose 4 but like in a row in lets say... the first round of the playoffs? Oh yeah that fine according to this guy.

People have been on the keep Cooper bandwagon for years now, the team has seen embarassment after embarassment. Never change white knighters, never change.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Well according to the skate It's looking like the lines will be

Stamkos Point Kuch
Killorn Cirelli Gourde
Palat Johnson Jospeh
Maroon Verhaeghe Witko

Honestly Don't mind them. I feel like Palat and Johnson will play well.

 

[DFC]

They’ll win the next two games ... and then everyone will switch camps. Then they’ll lose one and the sky will be falling...etc, etc, etc. and on the wheel you all go around and around again. People have been on the fire Cooper bandwagon for years now ... never change HF.

Not really. Even those of us who didn't think Coop WOULD be fired suspected that the team would be better without him. And that goes back several years now, whether we're winning or not.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Lets say they lose 4 but like in a row in lets say... the first round of the playoffs? Oh yeah that fine according to this guy.

People have been on the keep Cooper bandwagon for years now, the team has seen embarrassment after embarrassment. Never change white knighters, never change.

Yeah, I was on the keep-Coop-wagon until the CBJ debacle. & I'm not the only one. We're way passed switching camps over a winning/losing streak now. It's a matter of broken trust and nothing but a deep playoffs campaign will rebuild it. The rest is just hot air.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Well according to the skate It's looking like the lines will be

Stamkos Point Kuch
Killorn Cirelli Gourde
Palat Johnson Jospeh
Maroon Verhaeghe Witko

Honestly Don't mind them. I feel like Palat and Johnson will play well.

I'd like Cirelli to center Palat & Johnson or Gourde. #71 taking another dimension this year I reckon, especially on the offensive side... Can't recall if Gourde's up for the task but Johnson's too bad of a possession & weak defensive center, I'd prefer to see him permanently moved to the wing.

Stamkos Point Kuch
Palat Cirelli Johnson
Killorn Gourde Joseph
Maroon Verhaeghe Witko

 

[Master P]

Even Cooper knew he wasn't the right choice @1:28

 

[aessi]

Im willing to watch how this season goes. The schedule for start of this season is hard but no doubt we still make playoffs easily. Then it's time to see if Coop has learned anything after constantly getting outcoached in playoffs.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Yeah, I was on the keep-Coop-wagon until the CBJ debacle. & I'm not the only one. We're way passed switching camps over a winning/losing streak now. It's a matter of broken trust and nothing but a deep playoffs campaign will rebuild it. The rest is just hot air.

this 100%

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Im willing to watch how this season goes. The schedule for start of this season is hard but no doubt we still make playoffs easily. Then it's time to see if Coop has learned anything after constantly getting outcoached in playoffs.

no this is the problem is those of us who really feel we can miss the playoffs this year quite easily if we continue what we have done so far.... second its a given he will get outcoached at times in playoffs cause usually we wind up vs better coaches.... the key is that he does change the history and win a cup finally...

i really fear missing the playoffs at this time... team is just not right.... is writers none for the big markets yet questioning the cooper thing all of social media is questioning cooper daily.... the players know this by now if they want him here we should absolutely see a change cause when it boils down to it the players need to play the game.... i hope we can pull together as a team but after carolina and ottawa its a large issue.... i dont dislike cooper and can throw out ottawa in ways carolina is no excuse.... ottawa is we are the cowboys and got beat by the jets.... we were not up for that game.... yes gonna be some of those.... carolina what 3 shots final two periods is gross.... to be in first month of season and have guys calling out team (from basically same team that set standards last year of all time great runs) is super concerning.... I would like a harder coach a guy who yells a bit more etc... a guy who can motivate guys.... more then a guy who seems more of a buddy at this point because of our recent history of results.... we are not as good as our best game or as bad as our worst game but honestly if we just play decently carolina ottawa is a different story.... that is why you ask what the hell is going on in tampa.... its that time coming off the sweep

 

[The Macho King]

Im willing to watch how this season goes. The schedule for start of this season is hard but no doubt we still make playoffs easily. Then it's time to see if Coop has learned anything after constantly getting outcoached in playoffs.

It's really not? The only good team we played we beat 7-3.

Edit - forgot Carolina. So we are 1-0-1 against good teams and 1-2 against bad teams.

 

[aessi]

It's really not? The only good team we played we beat 7-3.

After the home opener 6 road games which include b2b vs Canes. Way harder than the one we had last year.

 

[The Macho King]

After the home opener 6 road games which include b2b vs Canes. Way harder than the one we had last year.

We could play Ottawa on the f***ing moon and we should still win every time.

 

[aessi]

We could play Ottawa on the ****ing moon and we should still win every time.

Last year Ottawa won Leafs 3 times. If it was playoffs i would say we should win them every time but one game is still just one game and during the season it's hard to get players motivated versus "bad" team.

 

[God King Fudge]

Last year Ottawa won Leafs 3 times. If it was playoffs i would say we should win them every time but one game is still just one game and during the season it's hard to get players motivated versus "bad" team.

What up, Cooper? That mentality is why we haven't won squat with this core.

The effort vs the Canes and the effort vs the Sens are unacceptable under ANY circumstances. Stop making excuses.

 

[God King Fudge]

They’ll win the next two games ... and then everyone will switch camps. Then they’ll lose one and the sky will be falling...etc, etc, etc. and on the wheel you all go around and around again. People have been on the fire Cooper bandwagon for years now ... never change HF.

Except that's not how it happens.

 

[Werewolf]

What up, Cooper? That mentality is why we haven't won squat with this core.

The effort vs the Canes and the effort vs the Sens are unacceptable under ANY circumstances. Stop making excuses.

We won 62 games last year during the regular season and all of a sudden Cooper doesnt know how to motivate his players to win games during the regular season? Makes sense to me ...

 

[These Are The Days]

We won 62 games last year during the regular season and all of a sudden Cooper doesnt know how to motivate his players to win games during the regular season? Makes sense to me ...

There's a lot of sense in this



Cooper hasn't done anything differently. But my concern is just how the team is reacting to him. I just hope he hasn't lost the room. He fighting the human nature of the locker room as much as anything else right now

 

[Werewolf]

Lets say they lose 4 but like in a row in lets say... the first round of the playoffs? Oh yeah that fine according to this guy.

People have been on the keep Cooper bandwagon for years now, the team has seen embarassment after embarassment. Never change white knighters, never change.

Let’s say your #1 defenseman is going through concussion symptoms and trying to play through it even misses half the games because of it. Yeah, he also man’s the leagues best PP ... which unsurprisingly went silent during the series. Let’s say your #1 C is going through so much pain it hurts to get in and out of a car...then goes through off-season surgery. Result, his shot share was the worst in the entire Lightning forward corps vs Columbus. Remind me ... did Stralman play?

I’ll remind everyone here what Yzerman preached during his time here. The goal is to make the playoffs...then luck takes over. Nobody picked up Girardi’s contract did they? Rutta sucks ...

We played basically with one playoff caliber pairing. McDonagh and Cernak.

Coburn, Rutta, Sergachev, Girardi. No wonder we sucked against their forecheck. So spare me the Cooper hate ... and the outcoached BS. The out coached analysis is just lazy and our defense, PK, and PP was decimated by injuries.

 

[CupsOverCash]

We won 62 games last year during the regular season and all of a sudden Cooper doesnt know how to motivate his players to win games during the regular season? Makes sense to me ...

I don't think it's as easy as we won 62 games with me and now you listen to me. No it doesn't because the previous 6 playoff games that mattered the HC couldn't make correct adjustments and the trust the team has in its coach could be naturally declining. The biggest mind f*** this team has to deal with is way worse than we as fans have to with this. They have to go out and give a shit about their regular season when they know it doesn't matter until the playoffs. How has their team done in the playoffs lately? God awful and the team knows it.

So I'm expecting some push back early in the season. How much could depend on how they feel about Cooper and his ability to lead them in the playoffs or it could be that they know this doesn't matter until the playoffs. So we see half ass performances until things start to matter a little more. The beginning of this season will not be much fun for us. Whether they are winning or not.

 

[Sky04]

Let’s say your #1 defenseman is going through concussion symptoms and trying to play through it even misses half the games because of it. Yeah, he also man’s the leagues best PP ... which unsurprisingly went silent during the series. Let’s say your #1 C is going through so much pain it hurts to get in and out of a car...then goes through off-season surgery. Result, his shot share was the worst in the entire Lightning forward corps vs Columbus. Remind me ... did Stralman play?

I’ll remind everyone here what Yzerman preached during his time here. The goal is to make the playoffs...then luck takes over. Nobody picked up Girardi’s contract did they? Rutta sucks ...

We played basically with one playoff caliber pairing. McDonagh and Cernak.

Coburn, Rutta, Sergachev, Girardi. No wonder we sucked against their forecheck. So spare me the Cooper hate ... and the outcoached BS. The out coached analysis is just lazy and our defense, PK, and PP was decimated by injuries.

Talking about "lazy analysis," those are lame excuses as to why a 62 win team got swept, I mean you keep bringing up 62 wins - you'd think a team that good has enough depth to win 1 game.

Thanks for bringing up Coburn, that's the guy Cooper healthy scratched in game 1 to play Rutta right?

 

[CupsOverCash]

Let’s say your #1 defenseman is going through concussion symptoms and trying to play through it even misses half the games because of it. Yeah, he also man’s the leagues best PP ... which unsurprisingly went silent during the series. Let’s say your #1 C is going through so much pain it hurts to get in and out of a car...then goes through off-season surgery. Result, his shot share was the worst in the entire Lightning forward corps vs Columbus. Remind me ... did Stralman play?

I’ll remind everyone here what Yzerman preached during his time here. The goal is to make the playoffs...then luck takes over. Nobody picked up Girardi’s contract did they? Rutta sucks ...

We played basically with one playoff caliber pairing. McDonagh and Cernak.

Coburn, Rutta, Sergachev, Girardi. No wonder we sucked against their forecheck. So spare me the Cooper hate ... and the outcoached BS. The out coached analysis is just lazy and our defense, PK, and PP was decimated by injuries.

I think you make good points but I also think we cant just toss out the coach from responsibility too just because of injuries. Let's go back to the season before when he was thoroughly outcoached by Trotz. The last 6 playoff games is enough for a team to give up on their coach and I'm not convinced that they havent so far into the season. I think he could very well be fired soon because the players could be turning on their HC and when that happens you need to make a change.

 

[God King Fudge]

We won 62 games last year during the regular season and all of a sudden Cooper doesnt know how to motivate his players to win games during the regular season? Makes sense to me ...

Who in the entire hell cares about the regular season?

He did a hell of a motivation job in game 7 vs the Pens. And in game 7 vs the Caps. Oh and his motivation last year in the playoffs? Top notch.

This guy knows hockey, folks.