2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

[CupsOverCash]

The fact that we can play like this once in a while only reinforces that the team is way too comfortable phoning games in. We need to see this kind of effort with some consistency, and then we need to see it in the playoffs.

We also need to see it against a team determined to trap us to death, rather than skate with us.

They just need to play Boston and the Leafs every game and the effort will be there.

 

[These Are The Days]

The fact that we can play like this once in a while only reinforces that the team is way too comfortable phoning games in. We need to see this kind of effort with some consistency, and then we need to see it in the playoffs.

We also need to see it against a team determined to trap us to death, rather than skate with us.

Yeah it looks like you and I want to see the same thing in terms of 5 on 5 control. But of course with Boston you control the big 3 and you're fine. But in any case we looked really good and structured and there was just bad luck on some of those goals. I'd rather us play like this and let special teams figure itself out than in reverse since the whistles are gonna get swallowed one night and limited power plays won't save us vs the trap.

In any case it was a good step forward that we needed to take and one I wasn't sure that we would do. Like you said we are way too comfortable phoning it in. Being prepared to respond falls on Cooper and to his credit we did fine

I was genuinely worried the team was ready to quit on him for a minute there but that doesn't seem to be the case. A team ready to quit on its coach doesn't play like that albeit stinky Kucherov has temporarily broken our PP and the PK has to wake up

 

[DFC]

Yeah it looks like you and I want to see the same thing in terms of 5 on 5 control. But of course with Boston you control the big 3 and you're fine. But in any case we looked really good and structured and there was just bad luck on some of those goals. I'd rather us play like this and let special teams figure itself out than in reverse since the whistles are gonna get swallowed one night and limited power plays won't save us vs the trap.

In any case it was a good step forward that we needed to take and one I wasn't sure that we would do. Like you said we are way too comfortable phoning it in. Being prepared to respond falls on Cooper and to his credit we did fine

I was genuinely worried the team was ready to quit on him for a minute there but that doesn't seem to be the case. A team ready to quit on its coach doesn't play like that albeit stinky Kucherov has temporarily broken our PP and the PK has to wake up

You can see structure when it's there. It was there tonight.

I think Kuch will wake up eventually. It took him about ten games last year. I'm tempted to look up the comments in his thread from 12 months ago. They'd be almost identical to what we're saying now.

 

[DFC]

They just need to play Boston and the Leafs every game and the effort will be there.

I don't know that it's effort so much as it's discipline. We were pushing the puck ahead a lot tonight and, aside from Kucherov, not trying to force cross-ice passes unless they were high percentage plays.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Time to worry about our special teams?

Powerplay:

Season	Rank	%	GF	Chances
2018-19	1	28.2	74	262
2019-20	9	25.0	5	20

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Only change really has been Maroon instead of a rotation of Miller/Palat/Killorn in front of the net on PP1.
PP2 on paper should be a lot better this season with the addition of Shattenkirk and an improved Sergachev on PP2.


Penalty Kill:

Season	Rank	%	GA	Chances
2018-19	1	85.0	40	267
2019-20	26	67.8	9	28

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

As I've pointed out yesterday, the biggest changes are the departures of Girardi and Stralman.
Paquette was our 2nd go-to forward on the kill behind only Cirelli last season and he has not played a game so far this season due to injury.

 

[JoVel]

If I learned anything from my days in the army it's that you don't go very far with "nice" leaders. As someone here said, fear and respect go hand in hand.

 

[LightningStrikes]

If I learned anything from my days in the army it's that you don't go very far with "nice" leaders. As someone here said, fear and respect go hand in hand.

IMO it's not even about fear, but most definitely about respect and maybe even trust. Cooper is a nice, funny and friendly guy. But do the players (still) respect him?

Do they trust in his decision-making, his line combos and matchups and setups, his gameplan and strategy, his special teams layout etc?

 

[JoVel]

IMO it's not even about fear, but most definitely about respect and maybe even trust. Cooper is a nice, funny and friendly guy. But do the players (still) respect him?

Do they trust in his decision-making, his line combos and matchups and setups, his gameplan and strategy, his special teams layout etc?

"Fear" was probably exaggerated, but I certainly do my best when someone makes me afraid of f***ing up.

 

[DFC]

IMO it's not even about fear, but most definitely about respect and maybe even trust. Cooper is a nice, funny and friendly guy. But do the players (still) respect him?

Do they trust in his decision-making, his line combos and matchups and setups, his gameplan and strategy, his special teams layout etc?

I think this is where fear comes in. "Fear" might not be the right word, but it's hard not to get the sense that the team feels like there are no consequences for poor play, game by game.

 

[LightningStrikes]

I think this is where fear comes in. "Fear" might not be the right word, but it's hard not to get the sense that the team feels like there are no consequences for poor play, game by game.

Which brings us back to our discussion from a week ago or so: Nobody is holding them accountable for poor effort or play. No consequences. The same players get double-shifted and sent out in a 1-minute game or in OT no matter their performance so far in that game.

I mean, what's the message to for example Palat, who again played very well but didn't get a single shift in OT last night IIRC (or only after the first full rotation). Meanwhile Coop gives his old buddy Maroon almost two straight minutes of TOI on the 6v5 late in the game against Ottawa. Ironically, Palat was on the ice no matter what when he was terrible and hurt last season. I'll never understand Cooper with that. It's the Brenden Morrow treatment over and over again. No matter how much Morrow sucked, he was out there as soon as time got short and we needed a goal. Meanwhile the Millers or Drouins never got a fair chance, no matter how talented they were or how well they played - even when they were forced to play on our 4th lines with grinders.

Poor performance or effort should result in getting an earful, a demotion or worse. Good performance should be rewarded. Coop seems to value (personal) history and/or reputation so much more than actual and current performance and effort.

 

[Maelmoor]

If I learned anything from my days in the army it's that you don't go very far with "nice" leaders. As someone here said, fear and respect go hand in hand.

There are different schools of leadership but you can basically boil it down to two general groups
1. Old-school leadership - Based on this "fear" factor, which is based around the punishment aspect
2. Modern leadership - Based on this "nice" factor, which is based around the motivation aspect

Obviously there are a ton of variations and it's not all black and white, but in terms of NHL, we can definitely see that most older coaches uses method 1 and younger coaches method 2. There is a lot of opinions which method is better, depending who you ask. I'm personally a fan of the second one

 

[Felonious Python]

If I learned anything from my days in the army it's that you don't go very far with "nice" leaders. As someone here said, fear and respect go hand in hand.

The military is sort of a different animal. They need the discipline to not get killed.

Human history is also consistent across cultures with victorious armies looting and pillaging after victories. The worst impulses need to be kept under control in extreme situations.

 

[JoVel]

The military is sort of a different animal. They need the discipline to not get killed.

It's not a completely different concept though. The guys who I liked the least, the ones who would get in my face for the smallest of details were also the ones who made me do my job the best. If you see the leader of the group (the head coach in this scenario) as an equal to the other members of said group, you'll not give him that much respect.

 

[CupsOverCash]

There are different schools of leadership but you can basically boil it down to two general groups
1. Old-school leadership - Based on this "fear" factor, which is based around the punishment aspect
2. Modern leadership - Based on this "nice" factor, which is based around the motivation aspect

Obviously there are a ton of variations and it's not all black and white, but in terms of NHL, we can definitely see that most older coaches uses method 1 and younger coaches method 2. There is a lot of opinions which method is better, depending who you ask. I'm personally a fan of the second one

Dont think its really one works better than another, its based on what the team needs at the moment. For some time the team responded to number 2. Now after some failures on the way to their ultimate goal the frustration sets in. Its not a terrible idea to get more of one in there because players need to be held accountable and if they arent then the failures can keep going. A change needs to occur. Something the team desperately needed in the playoff series against the Caps and the Blue Jackets. It never came so I wouldnt blame the players to take that frustration out on the coach. Another thing is that its harder to trade players than it is to replace the coach, so naturally the HC will get the bulk of blame.

Now where Im at is Cooper has been with this team for a long time. Has coached a lot of the same players. How could he and the team not figure it out together? I know hes the coach and shoulders the responsibility. The guys has been around the game for a while and the players have likely played their entire lives. How could they not figure out what the team needs to do to be successful and progress further? The only answer I can come up with is the voice gets old and the players just dont listen to him anymore. If that is the case then the coach has to go. I dont know if this is what the case is though because they are still playing hard to win important games. I just wonder if the players and coach are together on this way of going about their season and their playoff strategies. It seems like they care and its early in the season. I think that is a good sign for both Cooper and the team in general.

 

[T REX]

Our PK is trash this year. We slowly shrink into a small diamond and give up goals. It's real bad.

 

[DFC]

The military is sort of a different animal. They need the discipline to not get killed.

Human history is also consistent across cultures with victorious armies looting and pillaging after victories. The worst impulses need to be kept under control in extreme situations.

Different, yeah, but not a complete other category. It's still making humans perform vs. slack off.

Everybody who ever played for Scotty Bowman hated him sometimes. Aaron Ward, Bob Errey, Paul Coffey, etc, still hate him to this day. But every one of them one at least one cup with him.

He's an extreme example, but I'm not sure if we've seen an example of a very successful coach on very friendly terms with his players. And maybe Cooper isn't, but, from the outside looking in, it seems that way.

 

[DFC]

Our PK is trash this year. We slowly shrink into a small diamond and give up goals. It's real bad.

If I'm not mistaken, the PK was also our biggest weakness at the first of last year too, and then we cleaned it up 10-12 games in. I might be confusing that with the previous year though.

 

[CupsOverCash]

If I'm not mistaken, the PK was also our biggest weakness at the first of last year too, and then we cleaned it up 10-12 games in. I might be confusing that with the previous year though.

Last years PK was better than the year before. Until the playoffs of course.

 

[DFC]

Last years PK was better than the year before. Until the playoffs of course.

Talking about the very first of the season. Not the PK in general. We finished with the best PK in the league, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't think we started out that way.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Talking about the very first of the season. Not the PK in general. We finished with the best PK in the league, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't think we started out that way.

All I remember about the beginning of the year last year was that we did start slow and it was similar reactions to what we are seeing now but they picked it up. I think that was including the PK.

Its going to be a long season. Even if the same thing happens and we win games at a similar rate as last year, none of it matters until we see what they do in April or hopefully May/June.

 

[JoVel]

Talking about the very first of the season. Not the PK in general. We finished with the best PK in the league, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't think we started out that way.

All I remember about the beginning of the year last year was that we did start slow and it was similar reactions to what we are seeing now but they picked it up. I think that was including the PK.

Its going to be a long season. Even if the same thing happens and we win games at a similar rate as last year, none of it matters until we see what they do in April or hopefully May/June.

I'm pretty sure we broke the franchise record last season for most penalties killed to start a new season. The first time we failed to kill a penalty was at the end of the 7th game in the season against the Blackhawks after we had killed something like 20-25 penalties in a row.

 

[DFC]

I'm pretty sure we broke the franchise record last season for most penalties killed to start a new season. The first time we failed to kill a penalty was at the end of the 7th game in the season against the Blackhawks after we had killed something like 20-25 penalties in a row.

I think I'm confusing it with the season before.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

The only way either coach is getting canned mid-season is if their teams are sitting outside the playoffs by the All-Star break which is unlikely for both teams. Although I'm not sure how Toronto can handle another 1st round exit, I feel like Babcock has more shelf life if he can just get to the 2nd round. In Cooper's case another 1/2 or even 3rd round exit might just be enough to call it quits.

Toronto's roster is not nearly as good as ours on paper, by a good margin. He shouldn't be already on a leash, it's Toronto tho, so who knows.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Babcock is the frontrunner imo. Its been repeated on a few shows on NHL Network Radio lately that Babcock and Dubas are at odds already. Something about a press conference that Babcock made a backhanded comment about hoping (his GM) makes the team "bigger" or something like that. Add in the perceived (mis)treatment Matthews got from Babcock last season and so on. I'm only repeating what I've heard over the summer and the start of this season.

Anyway, if all that's true and you start ramping up the fans in Hockey's Mecca, it would stand to reason the torches and pitchforks get distributed alot faster up there than down here.

That said, up until recently I was firmly in the "It ain't Coop, it's certain players on this club" camp. Now I'm really starting to think that it just may be time for a change. I get the notion the sway he had in Junior (NAHL/USHL), then up in Norfolk, and here in the beginning was "Positive". He's a very likeable guy, encouraging, had your back, and motivates you thru positive willpower. He got alot out of his players with that. But, now I'm seeing a club that needs someone at the helm that'll get anyone wearing a sweater in that game's lineup to be willing to bash their ****ing head's through a wall. I don't see it. I don't see a killer mentality. No curb-stomp approach to any gameplan.

Kinda like the transition from Dungy to Gruden if you want to draw a Bucs comparison. Note: Personally that's one vessel that needs to be scuttled with all hands on deck but... I digress.

I didn't find it coincidental at all that they brought in Maroon this past summer. Just like Nate Thompson used tag around with Boucher. I'm not complaining for sure, but its clear to me they brought in a "Coach's Guy" with some sand (and bringing back Witko). This should either get them over the top and motivate certain guys or signal all hope is lost with this staff and a change is required.

Got that off my chest finally. Now it becomes, be careful what you wish for because right now I don't see anybody who's out there (or potentially will be) that can do the job. Richards would only be the lone voice and that's all. I can't find anything with him that makes him better than Cooper.

Coop goes, they all gotta go. With the right replacement(s) ready at the jump.

/rant

That's exactly my point. If we fail to get deep in the playoffs again, I don't wanna Cooper to be fired for the sake of it. We got so close to win the Prize, he's a good coach & did a tremendous job here in the absolute. But at some point you have to make a change & try a different approach.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Yes and I would froth at the mouth at the opportunity to play them in the playoffs. That team is so soft that the Letterkenny Boys came up with the phrase "10 ply" after watching a Leafs game. I think Babcock is overrated to all hell but I have no question he'd get the job done with us and would slaughter the Cooper-led Leafs. His structure is a ***** with a capital B to play against and come playoff time with Hedman and McDonagh getting probably 50-55 minutes of any given night combined good luck getting anything done against us if Vasy is having a particularly great night.

It's a question of maturity also. Cooper has provided a lot in the early years. This team doesn't need to be babysitted anymore tho, they need the mindset & gameplan to go to war, because that's exactly what playoffs hockey are.