The Jarmo Thread

[The Jones Zone]

The Jarmo experiment is failing.

He gets till the end of this season, but if they miss the playoffs, or go 4 and out again....he has to go.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I'm working on something that I've wanted to do for a long time. I was hoping I'd have a job by now and somebody would *pay* me to do this, but alas, it wasn't in the cards. I've put a lot of work into this already, and I just want to verify some of my thinking by asking team boards.

If you wouldn't mind, I could use your help. For the purposes of this exercise, please consider all the players *currently* on your team, including on IR. Don't consider top picks or hot prospects in Europe or the AHL, unless they have considerable time in the NHL (around 30 games or so?). I also don't care if a player is quote-unquote untouchable or not. Gretzky got traded, blah, blah, blah.

Also for the purposes of this thingy, everything counts. Age counts, talent counts, contract counts. No-movement clauses and "untouchability" don't.

My question is about trade value. Think of it this way, if you were offered two players and could only take one, which would you take? That guy goes on top. Do this through the whole list. I've taken a shot at answering below, including tiers, and age, salary, contract length. Please let me know where I'm wrong. Thanks!

Also, Columbus has a unique situation with so many stud UFAs. Please tell me where on the list Panarin, Bobrovsky and Duchene would land assuming they are signed to a "typical" contract for somebody their age and ability. I'm thinking they go in that order, between the two tiers of guys coming back, but I defer to you.

1. Seth Jones, 24, $5.4m, 2022
2. Zach Werenski, 21, $925k, 2019

3. Cam Atkinson, 29, $5.875m, 2025
4. Pierre-Luc Dubois, 20, $894k, 2020

Artemi Panarin, 27, $6m, 2019
Sergei Bobrovsky, 30, $7.425m, 2019
Matt Duchene, 28, $6m, 2019

 

[Long Live Lyle]

I'm working on something that I've wanted to do for a long time. I was hoping I'd have a job by now and somebody would *pay* me to do this, but alas, it wasn't in the cards. I've put a lot of work into this already, and I just want to verify some of my thinking by asking team boards.

If you wouldn't mind, I could use your help. For the purposes of this exercise, please consider all the players *currently* on your team, including on IR. Don't consider top picks or hot prospects in Europe or the AHL, unless they have considerable time in the NHL (around 30 games or so?). I also don't care if a player is quote-unquote untouchable or not. Gretzky got traded, blah, blah, blah.

Also for the purposes of this thingy, everything counts. Age counts, talent counts, contract counts. No-movement clauses and "untouchability" don't.

My question is about trade value. Think of it this way, if you were offered two players and could only take one, which would you take? That guy goes on top. Do this through the whole list. I've taken a shot at answering below, including tiers, and age, salary, contract length. Please let me know where I'm wrong. Thanks!

Also, Columbus has a unique situation with so many stud UFAs. Please tell me where on the list Panarin, Bobrovsky and Duchene would land assuming they are signed to a "typical" contract for somebody their age and ability. I'm thinking they go in that order, between the two tiers of guys coming back, but I defer to you.

1. Seth Jones, 24, $5.4m, 2022
2. Zach Werenski, 21, $925k, 2019

3. Cam Atkinson, 29, $5.875m, 2025
4. Pierre-Luc Dubois, 20, $894k, 2020

Artemi Panarin, 27, $6m, 2019
Sergei Bobrovsky, 30, $7.425m, 2019
Matt Duchene, 28, $6m, 2019

This isn’t really the thread for this, but anyway...

I hope NHL GMs have the same perception of Werenski as you do. If that’s his perceived value around the league, he should be moved this summer.

I’d guess we’d get offered the best packages from the average NHL GM for the players in the following order:

1. Jones
2. Panarin (presumed contract value of 8x9.5)
3. Dubois (mainly because of age. Atkinson’s the better player right now. Even PLD’s ELC/RFA status doesn’t give him the edge over Atkinson, because of Atkinson’s low-salaried deal. It’s simply age/PLD’s potential)
4. Atkinson
5. Werenski
6. Duchene (presumed 8x8)
7. Bobrovsky (presumed 8x8.5. Although goalies have weird trade values so he could be lower)
8. Anderson
9. Murray
10. Jenner

Maybe Dzingel (presumed contract 5x4.5) or Nutivarra would sneak in the top 10. It’s also possible a few GMs could really highly value Bjorkstrand or Wennberg (and all you need is one GM to make an overpay to make a trade) but I think that’d be the top 10 for the average/median GM.

 

[mikeyp24]

The Jarmo experiment is failing.

He gets till the end of this season, but if they miss the playoffs, or go 4 and out again....he has to go.

what has he failed at? Drafting? We have one of the youngest teams in the league because the young talent and have some good pieces nhl ready to replace any UFA loses. Trading? The guy has won every trade he has ever done including Clarkson for Horton. UFA signings he has not been great sure but what team does that well? Bot many most teams sink themselves buy building through UFA rather then draft. RFA signings? He has been fantastic there. What GM would be better here then JK currently? Especially with prospects overseas he drafted and has relationships with those players and their agents.

The only thing people bitch and complain about is that teading Bread and Bob which means you were for tanking the season and this SAME SITUATION is going on now except we dont have Bob giving up 2 goals over the last 2. We needed a 2C and got it. If he walks we gave up a 1st and meh prospects. Dzingle likely stays here so the picks we gave up for him are less likely to turn into what he is. The Mcquaid deal was needed because back end injuries and Kinkaid was a 5th like 4 years away... JK is doing what GMs SHOULD do... not saying better set up for 5 years from now so that 5 years from now he can sell again to prepare for 5yrs from now.

 

[JacketsDavid]

what has he failed at? Drafting? We have one of the youngest teams in the league because the young talent and have some good pieces nhl ready to replace any UFA loses. Trading? The guy has won every trade he has ever done including Clarkson for Horton. UFA signings he has not been great sure but what team does that well? Bot many most teams sink themselves buy building through UFA rather then draft. RFA signings? He has been fantastic there. What GM would be better here then JK currently? Especially with prospects overseas he drafted and has relationships with those players and their agents.

The only thing people ***** and complain about is that teading Bread and Bob which means you were for tanking the season and this SAME SITUATION is going on now except we dont have Bob giving up 2 goals over the last 2. We needed a 2C and got it. If he walks we gave up a 1st and meh prospects. Dzingle likely stays here so the picks we gave up for him are less likely to turn into what he is. The Mcquaid deal was needed because back end injuries and Kinkaid was a 5th like 4 years away... JK is doing what GMs SHOULD do... not saying better set up for 5 years from now so that 5 years from now he can sell again to prepare for 5yrs from now.

He has failed at winning. Playoffs is not winning. 16 of 31 teams make the playoffs. An average team makes the playoffs. Good teams win a series.

How old was the team he inherited? Probably one of 3 youngest. So he took a young team and made it younger while not winning a playoff series. Guess that's ok for some teams?

He does well at signing undervalued UFA. Either he doesn't want to spend big or free agents or they won't come here. Maybe not a Jarmo issue per se, but when you can't attract/retain elite talent it shows.

Congrats on winning big on Clarkson. Well that's after his incompetence of not insuring Horton (again maybe not him specifically but that signing put us back a few steps).

Yes he has the team winning more regular season games. That's great. But he's had enough time to do what any above average NHL team does - win a playoff series or two. At least before he had the story they stuck by of "brick by brick" but since he gave up a lot of bricks (and didn't get any back) for a lot of guys who could be headed out of Columbus. He has to hope Duchene stays. I think Dzingel may stay but not sure if he's difference maker.

Again if you want an average NHL team, then congrats we have a very average NHL GM.

 

[EspenK]

I think if there is one bone of contention it is the disconnect between the kind of players he acquired (Duchene& Dzingel) and drafted (Texier/Bemstrom) and the coaching style/preferences of his coach. Seems like the two are on different pages. I like the acquisitions and prospects but without a coaching change I'm not sure it is going to work.

 

[GoJackets1]

I think if there is one bone of contention it is the disconnect between the kind of players he acquired (Duchene& Dzingel) and drafted (Texier/Bemstrom) and the coaching style/preferences of his coach. Seems like the two are on different pages. I like the acquisitions and prospects but without a coaching change I'm not sure it is going to work.

This is exactly the problem. Jarmo drafts and trades for players with skill and speed, but we have a coach who would be happy with a team full of Brandon Dubinsky’s.

Which means, ultimately, the onus is indeed on Jarmo to figure out what the problem is with this team. I think he’s smart enough to know. It would be hard not to know the lower level of coaching we have after the Isles games this year.

 

[logan etherton]

Don't know about firing, but his misread of Panarin has been pretty bad. Panarin said he wouldn't sign with Columbus during the off season. He reiterated it many times. He also showed many signs of being a me first type of person this season. When he wasn't traded and probably denied an 8 year deal somewhere, his play has become spotty and its fair to ask whether he's giving his all. The GM misread a big asset and that's not very encouraging.

 

[Monk]

Don't know about firing, but his misread of Panarin has been pretty bad. Panarin said he wouldn't sign with Columbus during the off season. He reiterated it many times. He also showed many signs of being a me first type of person this season. When he wasn't traded and probably denied an 8 year deal somewhere, his play has become spotty and its fair to ask whether he's giving his all. The GM misread a big asset and that's not very encouraging.

Or he felt what he gave up for Panarin was worth it even if he didn't re-sign. That's how I feel about it now...

 

[logan etherton]

Or he felt what he gave up for Panarin was worth it even if he didn't re-sign. That's how I feel about it now...

If Duchene yielded two first round picks, then I think that it is fair to assume that Panarin would have been worth the same or more.

Has Panarin's play since the TDL been worthy of forgoing 2 first round picks? Not by my estimation.

 

[Monk]

If Duchene yielded two first round picks, then I think that it is fair to assume that Panarin would have been worth the same or more.

Has Panarin's play since the TDL been worthy of forgoing 2 first round picks? Not by my estimation.

Let's track the progress of those 2 first round picks (and that's assuming Duchene/Panarin re-sign in order to get 2 - something unlikely to happen with Panarin), track how Panarin does in the playoffs, and then check in on this again in 4-5 years I guess.

 

[MoeBartoli]

This isn’t really the thread for this, but anyway...

I hope NHL GMs have the same perception of Werenski as you do. If that’s his perceived value around the league, he should be moved this summer.

I’d guess we’d get offered the best packages from the average NHL GM for the players in the following order:

1. Jones
2. Panarin (presumed contract value of 8x9.5)
3. Dubois (mainly because of age. Atkinson’s the better player right now. Even PLD’s ELC/RFA status doesn’t give him the edge over Atkinson, because of Atkinson’s low-salaried deal. It’s simply age/PLD’s potential)
4. Atkinson
5. Werenski
6. Duchene (presumed 8x8)
7. Bobrovsky (presumed 8x8.5. Although goalies have weird trade values so he could be lower)
8. Anderson
9. Murray
10. Jenner

Maybe Dzingel (presumed contract 5x4.5) or Nutivarra would sneak in the top 10. It’s also possible a few GMs could really highly value Bjorkstrand or Wennberg (and all you need is one GM to make an overpay to make a trade) but I think that’d be the top 10 for the average/median GM.

I generally agree with most of this and while a “like” may have sufficed, I wanted to express my all in agreement regarding your take on Werenski. That’s the move where when can maybe maximize value for perceived value.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

He has failed at winning. Playoffs is not winning. 16 of 31 teams make the playoffs. An average team makes the playoffs. Good teams win a series.

How old was the team he inherited? Probably one of 3 youngest. So he took a young team and made it younger while not winning a playoff series. Guess that's ok for some teams?

He does well at signing undervalued UFA. Either he doesn't want to spend big or free agents or they won't come here. Maybe not a Jarmo issue per se, but when you can't attract/retain elite talent it shows.

Congrats on winning big on Clarkson. Well that's after his incompetence of not insuring Horton (again maybe not him specifically but that signing put us back a few steps).

Yes he has the team winning more regular season games. That's great. But he's had enough time to do what any above average NHL team does - win a playoff series or two. At least before he had the story they stuck by of "brick by brick" but since he gave up a lot of bricks (and didn't get any back) for a lot of guys who could be headed out of Columbus. He has to hope Duchene stays. I think Dzingel may stay but not sure if he's difference maker.

Again if you want an average NHL team, then congrats we have a very average NHL GM.

You say he fails at winning yet fail to understand how hard it is to push a team over the hump.

Making the playoffs is winning a lot of hockey games. I don’t understand why that’s something to downplay.

They have played the eventual cup champs 2 years in a row in the playoffs. You’re basically saying every other GM should’ve also been fired, because no one else beat those teams either.

I get the frustration but Jarmo has done a lot to try and make this team better. Believe me when i say most GM’s would’ve sat pat after 16/17, or at the very least not bring a guy like Panarin in.

He went all in this year for the exact reason you’re trying to get him fired for. He’s trying to win and not just make the playoffs. We already know the team they had prior TDL wasn’t capable of doing that.

Im going to guess that you have no realistic proposals for what he could’ve done better to get playoff success. Trading Bob and Panarin for picks sure as hell isn’t going to do that this year, or the next few years.

You put way too much emphasis on winning a round in the playoffs. If the Jackets somehow face the Islanders, a team that’s not going to win the cup, and then lose to WSH again that makes no difference than losing to WSH in the 1st round. Like congrats, you beat a non contender in the playoffs. Yay?

Also attracting elite talent is not a GM issue most of the time. When elite talent like that is out there it means there’s tons of competition for it. Unfortunately Columbus is not an attractive destination compared to many other places and there is nothing Jarmo can do about that except try to keep the team as competitive as possible and sending a message this is a place where we want to win - again exactly what he’s been doing.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Making the playoffs is winning a lot of hockey games. I don’t understand why that’s something to downplay.

Making the playoffs in MLB is tough. The NFL is tough to make it. Making the playoffs is the NHL isn't. More than half the field qualifies each year. Making the playoffs and not advancing is the definition of average in hockey.

 

[JacketsDavid]

You put way too much emphasis on winning a round in the playoffs. If the Jackets somehow face the Islanders, a team that’s not going to win the cup, and then lose to WSH again that makes no difference than losing to WSH in the 1st round. Like congrats, you beat a non contender in the playoffs. Yay?

Also attracting elite talent is not a GM issue most of the time. When elite talent like that is out there it means there’s tons of competition for it. Unfortunately Columbus is not an attractive destination compared to many other places and there is nothing Jarmo can do about that except try to keep the team as competitive as possible and sending a message this is a place where we want to win - again exactly what he’s been doing.

Winning a round would be a foot forward. Right now this team is in it's 20th year of existence and still haven't beat anyone in the playoffs. That is embarrassing.

Yet other small market teams can add players - Pittsburgh as an example. Poor widdle Columbus. It's BS - winning teams attract winning players. If we were advancing and looked like we could compete guys would want to be here. It's because of who we are as a franchise and who the coach is that most guys won't consider it here. Jarmo is directly responsible for who we are on the ice and who the team is coached by.

Listen he's a very average NHL GM. We don't need an average GM.

 

[majormajor]

Listen he's a very average NHL GM. We don't need an average GM.

You need to think on a longer time scale. Jarmo's first draft picks are just beginning to hit their primes. I think he's an above average GM, but we'll need a lot more time to find out.

And you can't use the whole "franchise has never won a series fire everyone" card, because we already did that, and Jarmo isn't responsible for what happened way back when. Most of the players don't care about that clap trap either, it's all stuff that happened to other teams, not their team. They do care about the last couple exits, but like Goldeneye said no one beat Pittsburgh or Washington, so are you going to fire every GM?

Pittsburgh, by the way, just about collapsed as a franchise the moment Mario was out of the picture. They've relied on their luck to draft some of the best players of our lifetimes at #1OA, which then makes them an attractive market for those who want to play with them. Not a model for the Jackets to emulate. We do not tank. Make it our house words.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Winning a round would be a foot forward. Right now this team is in it's 20th year of existence and still haven't beat anyone in the playoffs. That is embarrassing.

Yet other small market teams can add players - Pittsburgh as an example. Poor widdle Columbus. It's BS - winning teams attract winning players. If we were advancing and looked like we could compete guys would want to be here. It's because of who we are as a franchise and who the coach is that most guys won't consider it here. Jarmo is directly responsible for who we are on the ice and who the team is coached by.

Listen he's a very average NHL GM. We don't need an average GM.

Your insane if you think Jarmo is an average gm. Look at our roster when he was hired, and compare that to the roster we are icing today. We had no goalies in the system, very little in the skilled forward department. We now have 3 high caliber goalies on the horizon. Elvis looks to be ready to go as of next fall. Your have a dynamo player in Emil Bemstrom that is shattering records overseas, we have Garikov that will be in the lineup next year, Texier appears to be a special player, and a center at that. And then you have guys like Stenlund, Robinson, Sherwood knocking on the door, not to mention the core of this team, PLD, Jones, Werenski, Cam, Bjork, and possibly Duchene, and Dzingel, not sure how thats an average gm ? If you want to review trade results, dont bother, it will get ugly for you.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Making the playoffs in MLB is tough. The NFL is tough to make it. Making the playoffs is the NHL isn't. More than half the field qualifies each year. Making the playoffs and not advancing is the definition of average in hockey.

And yet, teams with good players fail to make the playoffs all the time. Teams that make the playoffs year after year have winning culture and respect around the league. That is not something that just happens unless you do a lot of things right. Columbus have recently managed to create this culture and teams around the league respect them giving them no easy games. Who have the Jackets had as their GM during this time?

Winning a round would be a foot forward. Right now this team is in it's 20th year of existence and still haven't beat anyone in the playoffs. That is embarrassing.

Yet other small market teams can add players - Pittsburgh as an example. Poor widdle Columbus. It's BS - winning teams attract winning players. If we were advancing and looked like we could compete guys would want to be here. It's because of who we are as a franchise and who the coach is that most guys won't consider it here. Jarmo is directly responsible for who we are on the ice and who the team is coached by.

Listen he's a very average NHL GM. We don't need an average GM.

Im sure the Jackets would win a round against many teams that make the playoffs. Unfortunately how things have shapen up they’ve had to play teams no one was able to beat in the 1st round. It is what it is. Just winning a round for the sake of winning a round doesn’t do anything for this team. Beating the Islanders, Habs or Canes in the playoffs just gives you an illusion that they took a step forward since those teams are not better than the teams they played last couple years.

What’s happened in the past 20 years doesn’t concern Jarmo in any way. He has no control for what happened before he got there.

And you bring up Pittsburgh - they got superstars for crying out loud. Their GM didn’t pull any magic tricks to get those players. They sucked hard and tanked at a time when it was easier to target players.

If Columbus had those type of players then sure, they would be more attractive. But im sure you understand how rare those players are and how to obtain them.

You can think what you want of Jarmo, but i simply don’t see any realistic scenarios what more he could’ve done in order for this team to beat the cup champs last 2 years. He’s already done more than many other GM’s would’ve been willing to do.

For example, without Panarin they miss the playoffs last year and Florida gets in. Is that what you would’ve wanted?

When you take all aspects of managing a team into account JK has done way more positive than negative. Doesn’t sound like your typical average GM.

 

[MoeBartoli]

You say he fails at winning yet fail to understand how hard it is to push a team over the hump.

Making the playoffs is winning a lot of hockey games. I don’t understand why that’s something to downplay.

They have played the eventual cup champs 2 years in a row in the playoffs. You’re basically saying every other GM should’ve also been fired, because no one else beat those teams either.

I get the frustration but Jarmo has done a lot to try and make this team better. Believe me when i say most GM’s would’ve sat pat after 16/17, or at the very least not bring a guy like Panarin in.

He went all in this year for the exact reason you’re trying to get him fired for. He’s trying to win and not just make the playoffs. We already know the team they had prior TDL wasn’t capable of doing that.

Im going to guess that you have no realistic proposals for what he could’ve done better to get playoff success. Trading Bob and Panarin for picks sure as hell isn’t going to do that this year, or the next few years.

You put way too much emphasis on winning a round in the playoffs. If the Jackets somehow face the Islanders, a team that’s not going to win the cup, and then lose to WSH again that makes no difference than losing to WSH in the 1st round. Like congrats, you beat a non contender in the playoffs. Yay?

Also attracting elite talent is not a GM issue most of the time. When elite talent like that is out there it means there’s tons of competition for it. Unfortunately Columbus is not an attractive destination compared to many other places and there is nothing Jarmo can do about that except try to keep the team as competitive as possible and sending a message this is a place where we want to win - again exactly what he’s been doing.

Glad to see you pop in for a post. I enjoy reading your posts on the mains whether I agree or not. Here? Well, I agree with the gist of your post.

 

[MoeBartoli]

He has failed at winning. Playoffs is not winning. 16 of 31 teams make the playoffs. An average team makes the playoffs. Good teams win a series.

How old was the team he inherited? Probably one of 3 youngest. So he took a young team and made it younger while not winning a playoff series. Guess that's ok for some teams?

He does well at signing undervalued UFA. Either he doesn't want to spend big or free agents or they won't come here. Maybe not a Jarmo issue per se, but when you can't attract/retain elite talent it shows.

Congrats on winning big on Clarkson. Well that's after his incompetence of not insuring Horton (again maybe not him specifically but that signing put us back a few steps).

Yes he has the team winning more regular season games. That's great. But he's had enough time to do what any above average NHL team does - win a playoff series or two. At least before he had the story they stuck by of "brick by brick" but since he gave up a lot of bricks (and didn't get any back) for a lot of guys who could be headed out of Columbus. He has to hope Duchene stays. I think Dzingel may stay but not sure if he's difference maker.

Again if you want an average NHL team, then congrats we have a very average NHL GM.

For you success is to win in the playoffs; just getting there is not accomplishment. I'll add here that I disagree with your position. He's elevated the Jackets to one of the winningest regular season teams over the past three years. And for me, making the playoffs consistently is still a big deal after so many years of not (after all, if you're not in, you can't win).

Now putting my own take aside and focusing on yours.......You ought to be happy with what Jarmo has done because he just put the franchise in its best position to do that this year with the moves. Tell me a time the team has ever had a better roster. This is it. So far it's not paying off, but the season ain't over.

Now if your complaint is Jarmo has sold the future by making these moves...maybe....maybe not. How do you know what the future looks like if you've never seen it? Before judging things, let's see how it all plays out.

 

[cbjgirl]

snip

And you bring up Pittsburgh - they got superstars for crying out loud. Their GM didn’t pull any magic tricks to get those players. They sucked hard and tanked at a time when it was easier to target players.

I dislike that this makes me remember that the CBJ had the same number of balls in the Crosby lottery as Pittsburgh. Ah, what could have been.

 

[JacketsDavid]

For you success is to win in the playoffs; just getting there is not accomplishment. I'll add here that I disagree with your position. He's elevated the Jackets to one of the winningest regular season teams over the past three years. And for me, making the playoffs consistently is still a big deal after so many years of not (after all, if you're not in, you can't win).

Now putting my own take aside and focusing on yours.......You ought to be happy with what Jarmo has done because he just put the franchise in its best position to do that this year with the moves. Tell me a time the team has ever had a better roster. This is it. So far it's not paying off, but the season ain't over.

Now if your complaint is Jarmo has sold the future by making these moves...maybe....maybe not. How do you know what the future looks like if you've never seen it? Before judging things, let's see how it all plays out.

Again average teams make the playoffs. I'm not happy with average. 20 years in existence 0 playoff series win. Not sure how anyone can be happy with that. Again maybe it's the commitment to mediocrity and someare ok with it.

Yes best position talent wise to win this year, but will be tough sledding in 3-4 years (lack of draft picks). Best case Even if Duchene resigns we will be without a first for 2 straight years and given up two seconds for Dzingel. So won't be any help via the draft. I know we have 3 goalies developing and 6 elite d-men training somewhere in Siberia to rule the NHL, but until we see more of them in N America it's tough to bank on.

Again he went all in with a pair of pocket 7s. Problem is teams like Tampa are much better teams and will be tough to beat even with all the rentals. Again in my mind when we made the trades the hope was to finish 2nd in the Metro and get home ice in first round. Right now 3rd would be lucky and more than likely one of Wild Card spots is where we end up (which means Tampa or Metro winner in round 1).

Again I get what everyone says - we get bad draws. But look at the Islanders. They hired the right coach and took a team no one thought was any good to a division leading team.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Again average teams make the playoffs. I'm not happy with average. 20 years in existence 0 playoff series win. Not sure how anyone can be happy with that. Again maybe it's the commitment to mediocrity and someare ok with it.

Nobody is satisfied with that but i don't understand why you fail to see how much they've tried to do to get better. The only thing missing from this team is superstars but like i said before, you just don't go out and get those. Teams that have them don't want to give them up, they very rarely go to FA and so the only option remaining is drafting and it's always luck based unless you're getting a sure thing like McDavid - but that would mean you'd have to suck. You don't want a rebuild do you?

Yes best position talent wise to win this year, but will be tough sledding in 3-4 years (lack of draft picks). Best case Even if Duchene resigns we will be without a first for 2 straight years and given up two seconds for Dzingel. So won't be any help via the draft. I know we have 3 goalies developing and 6 elite d-men training somewhere in Siberia to rule the NHL, but until we see more of them in N America it's tough to bank on.

You're contradicting yourself here. You say they have some prospects but you can never bank on those, but then complain about losing draft picks for players who make the team better now. Newsflash, those prospects you'd draft with the picks aren't something to bank on either and it's completely possible only 1 or 2 even make the NHL - after few years.

If the Jackets can keep Duchene it's well worth losing a 1st round pick. You want the team to be better than mediocre? Then you have to get more good players. Duchene is a very good player and will make the team better for years to come. That 1st round pick may or may not turn into something, but the chances to draft a player as good as Duchene later in the 1st round is slim.

Again he went all in with a pair of pocket 7s. Problem is teams like Tampa are much better teams and will be tough to beat even with all the rentals. Again in my mind when we made the trades the hope was to finish 2nd in the Metro and get home ice in first round. Right now 3rd would be lucky and more than likely one of Wild Card spots is where we end up (which means Tampa or Metro winner in round 1).

He didn't go all in to finish 2nd in the Metro. He went all in to win the Stanley Cup. To do that, you most likely need to beat Tampa. Team prior to TDL sure as hell wasn't going to do that. This team at least has a better chance. Not doing anything and then losing Bread and Bob in the summer is commitment to mediocrity. Hoping somewhere down the line you draft players who can help is not commitment to winning if you already have a competitive team. Once again, you're contradicting yourself blaming the GM for something when he's doing the exact opposite.

Again I get what everyone says - we get bad draws. But look at the Islanders. They hired the right coach and took a team no one thought was any good to a division leading team.

And you think the Isles are going to stay there? I sure as hell don't. Isles are the definition of mediocre having one of those seasons teams with a lot to prove have every now and then. Remember the Jackets in 16/17? Columbus finished with 108 points, more than the Isles will finish this year. And despite adding Panarin, the team still had to make a big push to even get in to the playoffs year after.

Isles will have to improve the team moving forward otherwise they will fall just like the Devils did this year, or any other teams that suddenly overachieve in the regular season. And if you ask me, the Jackets have a better chance to do anything significant in the playoffs. Isles are a one trick pony, they defend well but as a series goes on against a team with more offensive talent they will lose.

 

[Albatros]

Yes best position talent wise to win this year, but will be tough sledding in 3-4 years (lack of draft picks). Best case Even if Duchene resigns we will be without a first for 2 straight years and given up two seconds for Dzingel. So won't be any help via the draft.

Though the fact is that the Jackets have not had one single successful 1st round draft pick outside the top 8 overall in franchise history. Even of those top 8 picks less than a half have succeeded.

 

[Jackets16]

Though the fact is that the Jackets have not had one single successful 1st round draft pick outside the top 8 overall in franchise history. Even of those top 8 picks less than a half have succeeded.

How many successful 1st round picks (outside the top 8) has Pittsburgh had, since Columbus joined the NHL?