The Jarmo Thread

[DarkandStormy]

"I think Jake Voracek (acquired Saturday) can be one of those guys," Kekalainen said. He’s got lots and lots of experience. He’s a veteran now. He understands that, and the way he plays is leadership. Gus Nyquist, Boone Jenner … we’ve got guys like that. I’m not concerned.

"Like I said, we haven’t held a parade here. We needed to make those changes. We need to get to our end goal, and if we couldn’t get there with this core, we needed to make some changes."

This was a very interesting quote by Jarmo. Some might find the bluntness refreshing. "We haven't held a parade here" - justification for moving out Atkinson (he mentions "this core," so include Foligno and Savard in there as well). That's a pretty big absolution of any and all mistakes made by the front office and coaching staff in the last 5+ years. If we don't hold a parade, it's solely the fault of the players, specifically the ones in leadership roles. Although, Boone Jenner has been around basically as long as Atkinson, so he didn't need moved out. In fact, he got extended.

And we wonder why no one wants to stay here. (This could also go in the anonymous players thread.)

 

[Monk]

This was a very interesting quote by Jarmo. Some might find the bluntness refreshing. "We haven't held a parade here" - justification for moving out Atkinson (he mentions "this core," so include Foligno and Savard in there as well). That's a pretty big absolution of any and all mistakes made by the front office and coaching staff in the last 5+ years. If we don't hold a parade, it's solely the fault of the players, specifically the ones in leadership roles. Although, Boone Jenner has been around basically as long as Atkinson, so he didn't need moved out. In fact, he got extended.

And we wonder why no one wants to stay here. (This could also go in the anonymous players thread.)

I can't believe this will have any impact whatsoever on any past, present or future players w/r/t their desire to play in Columbus.

 

[EspenK]

I can't believe this will have any impact whatsoever on any past, present or future players w/r/t their desire to play in Columbus.

I agree. The stuff people post here is so sentimental and pollyannish it is just amazing. And besides we do have a world class zoo to offer.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

This was a very interesting quote by Jarmo. Some might find the bluntness refreshing. "We haven't held a parade here" - justification for moving out Atkinson (he mentions "this core," so include Foligno and Savard in there as well). That's a pretty big absolution of any and all mistakes made by the front office and coaching staff in the last 5+ years. If we don't hold a parade, it's solely the fault of the players, specifically the ones in leadership roles. Although, Boone Jenner has been around basically as long as Atkinson, so he didn't need moved out. In fact, he got extended.

And we wonder why no one wants to stay here. (This could also go in the anonymous players thread.)

I don't think that particular quote from Jarmo in a vacuum means much or would cause harm, but I agree that Jarmo comes across as a pretty self-serving person, when factoring in the Athletic article and statements like this, the hypocrisy of preaching loyalty when it works to my benefit but throwing it out the window otherwise, etc., and it provides a bit of insight into some of the attitude that has perhaps caused friction between players and the front office. In particular, I agree with the bolded, and I really don't like that attitude.

I've lost some respect for him this past week. I don't think he's a bad guy (actually, despite the stoicness/"Bond villain" persona, he seems like a pretty decent human being), but I wish he'd show a bit more humility/willingness to take blame on himself.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I don't think that particular quote from Jarmo in a vacuum means much or would cause harm, but I agree that Jarmo comes across as a pretty self-serving person, when factoring in the Athletic article and statements like this, the hypocrisy of preaching loyalty when it works to my benefit but throwing it out the window otherwise, etc., and it provides a bit of insight into some of the attitude that has perhaps caused friction between players and the front office. In particular, I agree with the bolded, and I really don't like that attitude.

I've lost some respect for him this past week. I don't think he's a bad guy (actually, despite the stoicness/"Bond villain" persona, he seems like a pretty decent human being), but I wish he'd show a bit more humility/willingness to take blame on himself.

He may even be true with his statements - that this core had a good run and it was time to move on. But you can certainly relay that message in a much better way that doesn't throw those guys under the bus, thank them for their contributions here, etc. etc.

 

[NotWendell]

Jarmo has next to zero empathy, nor self awareness about how the things he says can be perceived by others.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

He may even be true with his statements - that this core had a good run and it was time to move on. But you can certainly relay that message in a much better way that doesn't throw those guys under the bus, thank them for their contributions here, etc. etc.

I'm a Notre Dame football fan, and I'll never forget when they lost to Duke in 2016, 38-35. DeShone Kizer had 441 total yards of offense (but also two turnovers). The quotes from Brian Kelly after the game about Kizer: "below standard", "not acceptable", while simultaneously defending his 50-year-old defensive coordinator making high six figures, who allowed mighty Duke to march all over the field. That basically turned me off on Kelly forever, even with better seasons lately.

That was even worse, of course, because it's a young amateur kid, as opposed to veteran professional athletes in their 30s, but still, some similarities here to Jarmo.

 

[EDM]

Agree Wendel. Perhaps we might be seeing some suggestion of an extremely narcissistic personality.

 

[NotWendell]

Jarmo (especially without JD around) has never really followed consensus in the draft. IMO he has favored Eurpean skaters too much and that is why I was glad to see a couple of NA kids go early. Now Jarmo to his credit has hit on some folks, but he seems to have his own ideas on who to draft and I certainly don't think he was drafting for Torts.

His pro acquisitions and trades weren't for Torts, nor his style of play, either.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Jarmo has next to zero empathy, nor self awareness about how the things he says can be perceived by others.

I’m sure if Jarmo completed an EQ assessment he’d rate high in being dominant and analytical and lowest in the amiable category (which includes empathy). It’s the characteristics that make him lacking in the instances at hand but very good on the transactional side such as trades. And it’s the two that make him good at contract bottom lines but lacking in the relationship outcome aspect.

 

[NotWendell]

I’m sure if Jarmo completed an EQ assessment he’d rate high in being dominant and analytical and lowest in the amiable category (which includes empathy). It’s the characteristics that make him lacking in the instances at hand but very good on the transactional side such as trades. And it’s the two that make him good at contract bottom lines but lacking in the relationship outcome aspect.

Little known fact: I'm a Certified Behavioral Analyst. And I am 90% certain you would be correct. JD makes up for what Jarmo is lacking - as long as JD is the one talking to the media and the players, not Jarmo.

 

[majormajor]

This was a very interesting quote by Jarmo. Some might find the bluntness refreshing. "We haven't held a parade here" - justification for moving out Atkinson (he mentions "this core," so include Foligno and Savard in there as well). That's a pretty big absolution of any and all mistakes made by the front office and coaching staff in the last 5+ years. If we don't hold a parade, it's solely the fault of the players, specifically the ones in leadership roles. Although, Boone Jenner has been around basically as long as Atkinson, so he didn't need moved out. In fact, he got extended.

And we wonder why no one wants to stay here. (This could also go in the anonymous players thread.)

I didn't read it that way at all.

Our core played their asses off despite not being top talents. They did their jobs. And I'm sure Jarmo knows this. He might feel a sense of responsibility given that he was the one who assembled the team. When I read that statement I get the idea that he thinks of himself as part of that failure.

 

[majormajor]

I've lost some respect for him this past week. I don't think he's a bad guy (actually, despite the stoicness/"Bond villain" persona, he seems like a pretty decent human being), but I wish he'd show a bit more humility/willingness to take blame on himself.

I've lost some respect for him this past year and regained some in this past week. I don't know what happened that made you lose respect this week.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Little known fact: I'm a Certified Behavioral Analyst. And I am 90% certain you would be correct. JD makes up for what Jarmo is lacking - as long as JD is the one talking to the media and the players, not Jarmo.

And here I thought you delivered the High Life!

 

[Long Live Lyle]

I've lost some respect for him this past year and regained some in this past week. I don't know what happened that made you lose respect this week.

If I interpreted his quote/overall feelings the way you do in post #837, I'd be more aligned to you. But I don't interpret it that way (and not just due to that quote; in fact, the other things we've read/heard about outside of that quote is why I don't interpret his feelings that way).

 

[majormajor]

If I interpreted his quote/overall feelings the way you do in post #837, I'd be more aligned to you. But I don't interpret it that way (and not just due to that quote; in fact, the other things we've read/heard about outside of that quote is why I don't interpret his feelings that way).

If you remember what was said, please point me in the right direction. I think we're going too far in assuming that Jarmo is lacking basic empathy. Most people in his position would feel a sense of personal failing at this point and I don't see why he wouldn't.

 

[EspenK]

Little known fact: I'm a Certified Behavioral Analyst. And I am 90% certain you would be correct. JD makes up for what Jarmo is lacking - as long as JD is the one talking to the media and the players, not Jarmo.

Have you ever analyzed us? I hope not.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

If you remember what was said, please point me in the right direction. I think we're going too far in assuming that Jarmo is lacking basic empathy. Most people in his position would feel a sense of personal failing at this point and I don't see why he wouldn't.

My point isn't related to the empathy (I'm not enough of an expert on cognitive behavior to judge that, and in fact I even said Jarmo appears to me to be a pretty decent guy) but he also appears to be self-serving. Or maybe self-preserving is a better word. That quote is an example. The little shot at Brisson (paraphrasing: "we weren't given many options"). The whole preaching about "loyalty" for years (it's not our fault; it's their fault for not being loyal) and then trading Cam (not even saying it wasn't the right move, just the hypocrisy). These aren't outwardly obvious, but to me they're very subtle ways to deflect blame: "we've been dealt this awful hand as a front office, it's no wonder we had a bad season/have only gotten past the first round once". And of course the Athletic quotes about the front office.

Some of those things Jarmo's said might be partially true or even fully true, but I'm just not a fan of that attitude. It's not a big deal (not anywhere even in the same ballpark, city, state, country or universe as the Blackhawks situation; or even an indefensible act like drafting Mailloux); not like I'm gonna stop being a fan or would rather have someone else (realistically) than Jarmo. Just not a big fan of that, and do wonder if it does make things more difficult for us sometimes than it has to be.

 

[majormajor]

My point isn't related to the empathy (I'm not enough of an expert on cognitive behavior to judge that, and in fact I even said Jarmo appears to me to be a pretty decent guy) but he also appears to be self-serving. Or maybe self-preserving is a better word. That quote is an example. The little shot at Brisson (paraphrasing: "we weren't given many options"). The whole preaching about "loyalty" for years (it's not our fault; it's their fault for not being loyal) and then trading Cam (not even saying it wasn't the right move, just the hypocrisy). These aren't outwardly obvious, but to me they're very subtle ways to deflect blame: "we've been dealt this awful hand as a front office, it's no wonder we had a bad season/have only gotten past the first round once". And of course the Athletic quotes about the front office.

Some of those things Jarmo's said might be partially true or even fully true, but I'm just not a fan of that attitude. It's not a big deal (not anywhere even in the same ballpark, city, state, country or universe as the Blackhawks situation; or even an indefensible act like drafting Mailloux); not like I'm gonna stop being a fan or would rather have someone else (realistically) than Jarmo. Just not a big fan of that, and do wonder if it does make things more difficult for us sometimes than it has to be.

Well I'm more than a little pissed at Brisson and I support the Cam-Jake trade and I do think we generally had rotten luck with Panarin and Dubois leaving. So you might be talking to the wrong guy with those examples.

 

[Youngguns80]

I think Jarmo is a very good talent evaluator and crushes other GM’s in deals. Maybe the empathy part is why he bad at contract negotiations and FA signings (relatable)?

 

[Murky]

Jarmo's preaching for loyalty can also be taken in a completely different context: he may be talking about people that never intented to stay with the CBJ like Panarin. From that point of view it comes of as 180 degrees different and he is in fact withholding naming and blaming people. From his perspective he signed the players but they did not want to stay in Columbus. From this perspective the Jones contract in Chicago comes off as part of this and it is not about the departing core but rather about a bigger picture and about Bob, PLD, Jones etc. There is not much he can do about it and he may as well be talking about that, in a super polite way. Paying Jones what Chicago did, for example, would have been a massive mistake and Panarin just wanted to be somewhere else. What can he do?

Having been disillusioned by my own team to an extend that a finals run this year didn't do much for me, I have been following a lot of teams in the NHL for past 20 years. 90% of the fans think that their front office is "to blame". From an outside perspective Kekalainen has done a pretty f***ing marvellous job with what he has to work with.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I think Jarmo is a very good talent evaluator and crushes other GM’s in deals. Maybe the empathy part is why he bad at contract negotiations and FA signings (relatable)?

Here' my unpopular theory on the CBJ and trades.
The CBJ will usually always win in trades because we (to this point) always have cap space and (also to this point) our Front Office doesn't really understand chemistry too well, they are just happy to add talent. We can take a talented overpaid guy that other teams can't or don't want. We've taken on a lot of talented guys via trade - Whitney, Sergie Fedorov (going back in time for those 2), Carter, Panarin, etc all guys (outside of the trade deadline deal for Duchene, etc) we've taken on to to try to help our teams offense. Feds was done more of a mentor for Nash and Z more than a talent infusion but we've never shied away from trading for talent when available.
Also I firmly believe (and reference the Chicago trades) that teams at times look as us as a safe place to trade a guy. Just basically meaning the chance of us being good enough to have the trade bit them in the butt isn't very big, and we usually always have a full cupboard of affordable guys, prospects and picks we aren't afraid to trade. They (Chicago) knew what they had in Panarin (and IMO knew he wasn't signing an extension in Chicago) so they sent him to a safe place. They needed cap space and got back a familiar face (Saad) back but I have no doubts they felt safe they wouldn't be running into Panarin in the playoffs/finals.

 

[EDM]

I don't particularly like what I see of Jarmo as a person. But he has had a really great 10 days jump starting the rebuild.

 

[jonlin]

Jarmo has next to zero empathy, nor self awareness about how the things he says can be perceived by others.

I dont think a GM should show empathy. Running a hockey-team is a business. You dont do Business-decisions by empathy.
Also what ppl post about "You should draft players that fit the coach" is complete bullshit. You draft the best players available or players that fit the team. Coaches come and go and if you draft for said coach, then when he leaves you have to blow up the entire team.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I dont think a GM should show empathy. Running a hockey-team is a business. You dont do Business-decisions by empathy.
Also what ppl post about "You should draft players that fit the coach" is complete bullshit. You draft the best players available or players that fit the team. Coaches come and go and if you draft for said coach, then when he leaves you have to blow up the entire team.

I disagree - Jarmo is a leader and needs to do more than run a business. If you don't value your assets (and let them know they are valued) you end up with the mess we have now. He has let a lot of heart and soul players walk away because he saw them as replaceable (or he was showing off the Hammer in negotiations), and the rest of the team knows it. The Athletic survey seems to squarely point the organization failures at the front office more than anywhere else.

Also I do agree more on adding vets to fit the team and current coach, but Jarmo has went out of his way to draft a lot of European players. So I get taking BPA, but if you're going to favor European players then the team probably shouldn't be built around "gritty and tough to play against".