The Jarmo Thread

[DarkandStormy]

Milano has 1 goal and 3 assists in his last 17 games. He's a 3rd liner at best and also could be an AHL/NHL "tweener"-an organizational depth player. He's 23. He's never going to be an NHL stalwart.

If you're going to cite Wennberg's p/60 as a reason that he's bad (and that's fine) then it should be noted Milano has the best p/60 on the team at 5v5, outside of Robinson.

Milano seems to be very streaky. He'll pile up points in 6-7 games and then go silent for 12. I think that's partly due to his low TOI, so we'll see if he continues to get 15+ minutes/game what happens. He created a lot of chances on Thursday.

He has the 7th best (6th if you throw out Robinson) xGF% among forwards on the team, if you place on credence in such a stat. So he's not actively bad.

But again, I think this is just a case of Torts misunderstanding how to use a forward. See: Duclair, Dzingel, Karlsson, etc. We will have to see if he lets him go the next couple weeks.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

If you're going to cite Wennberg's p/60 as a reason that he's bad (and that's fine) then it should be noted Milano has the best p/60 on the team at 5v5, outside of Robinson.

Milano seems to be very streaky. He'll pile up points in 6-7 games and then go silent for 12. I think that's partly due to his low TOI, so we'll see if he continues to get 15+ minutes/game what happens. He created a lot of chances on Thursday.

He has the 7th best (6th if you throw out Robinson) xGF% among forwards on the team, if you place on credence in such a stat. So he's not actively bad.

But again, I think this is just a case of Torts misunderstanding how to use a forward. See: Duclair, Dzingel, Karlsson, etc. We will have to see if he lets him go the next couple weeks.

My over arching point was that this roster isn't anything that one should be committed to keeping together as a whole. I was unaware that Milano had the best numbers in that category, but quite frankly I'm not going to get overly excited about a number based on 26 games with a 3rd liner who's tracking for 30 points. I also doubt that his numbers in 5v5 points/60 over the stretch games I cited on his statistics is best on the team. I sure as hell hope it isn't

I hope Milano becomes a solid, long term NHLer. I just am not sold on that at this point.

 

[koteka]

I know how the buyout works. I’d rather retain salary and get it off the books quicker. Who knows where we’ll be in 6 years. We might have two top draft picks on 2nd contracts plus Jones and Werenski and need cap space then.

I don’t overvalue the roster. I do know the ufa market is crap this year so we can sign our guys or play Dalpe and Dano. Hall isn’t coming here. Backstrom isn’t coming here. Who else has is there? Hoffman? Toffoli? Galchenyuk?

If we got rid of Wennberg, Cam, Nash, and Dubi is this team any better? What is the plan then? Lots of cap space and nobody to sign?

 

[Ice9]

I do nothing without a purpose and a plan. Where are we next year? 3 years out? 5 years out?

Right now though they need some sort of event to wake people up. Whether that's Torts going, trade your captain or name a new one or something. A jump start event has a purpose. We have some good players and there's a funk over this group at the moment.

Staus quo will not cut it between now and March/end of season.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Are you aware of Wennberg's buyout numbers? He can be bought out at 1/3rd of his deal:

Alexander Wennberg Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
cost/yr CBJ cash savings cap hit

2020-21	$5,350,000	$4,900,000	$0	$891,667	$891,667	$4,458,333	$441,667
2021-22	$5,350,000	$4,900,000	$0	$891,667	$891,667	$4,458,333	$441,667
2022-23	$5,350,000	$4,900,000	$0	$891,667	$891,667	$4,458,333	$441,667
2023-24	$0	$0	$0	$891,667	$891,667	-$891,667	$891,667
2024-25	$0	$0	$0	$891,667	$891,667	-$891,667	$891,667
2025-26	$0	$0	$0	$891,667	$891,667	-$891,667	$891,667

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

**I can't get the line above the chart explaining the chart to line up**

If this is stupid, then sign me up for some more stupid pills.

Riley Nash is better in the playoffs? Based on what? His 7 games out of 13 that he could have played last year? What exactly would he bring to Edmonton? He's a scratch for the 27th ranked CBJ on a regular basis.

Sure Toews has a bigger cap hit, but it's for 3 more years and one would be seriously upgrading between him and Atkinson and/or Wennberg. Toews for a little more cash for 3 years or Atkinson for 5 more? That's an easy decision.

Worrying about signing a Milano or a Murray a Kukan or Gavrikov is simply not worthwhile. It appears that you've severely overvalued this roster. Not at all uncommon for a fan to do that. This is not a roster worth saving as a whole. It needs major adjustments. Most of the prospects you listed, plus Texier and Bemstrom will probably fall short of the mark. They're anything but sure things. Why would one be gung ho about signing Josh Anderson long term now. He's best signed to a one year arbitration deal based on his current play or traded.

Milano has 1 goal and 3 assists in his last 17 games. He's a 3rd liner at best and also could be an AHL/NHL "tweener"-an organizational depth player. He's 23. He's never going to be an NHL stalwart.

I don't think Wennberg is tradable except in an unfavorably one-sided deal. And a buyout is I deed a much better option than retaining salary. A buyout is the only sensible option here.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I don't think Wennberg is tradable except in an unfavorably one-sided deal. And a buyout is I deed a much better option than retaining salary. A buyout is the only sensible option here.

Absolutely.

At 1/3rd buyout, the CBJ save $10.5 million in cash and never have a cap hit as high as $900,000 on him for the next six years. It's a no brainer.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I know how the buyout works. I’d rather retain salary and get it off the books quicker. Who knows where we’ll be in 6 years. We might have two top draft picks on 2nd contracts plus Jones and Werenski and need cap space then.

I don’t overvalue the roster. I do know the ufa market is crap this year so we can sign our guys or play Dalpe and Dano. Hall isn’t coming here. Backstrom isn’t coming here. Who else has is there? Hoffman? Toffoli? Galchenyuk?

If we got rid of Wennberg, Cam, Nash, and Dubi is this team any better? What is the plan then? Lots of cap space and nobody to sign?

Cam's not a buyout consideration until at least after next season. Wennberg is a no brainer buy out. Nash can be buried in the minors next year and only $1.75 million would count against the cap or you keep him as your 13th forward.

Dubinsky will probably ride LTIR into the sunset. If not, then you definitely buy him out if you need the cap space. If not, it's a coin flip-but the CBJ would save almost $2 million by buying him out, so it's probably a good deal for the team.

It's not my job to retool the team. It's the GMs. Jarmo has not shown anything that suggests that he's up to the task. Attracting UFAs to Columbus is not an impossible task for the right management team.

The fact that some people support Wennberg not being bought out at 1/3rd stuns me.

 

[Timeless Winter]

Isn't it better to give Seattle a draft pick to take Wennberg rather than buy him out?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Isn't it better to give Seattle a draft pick to take Wennberg rather than buy him out?

Until he scores 40 goals and they go to the Finals...

 

[EDM]

What would we do with the extra cap space? The same thing Jarmo did with the extra cap space this past summer?

 

[EDM]

What is also frightening to me is that there is no one above Jarmo on the hockey side of the franchise. Certainly we do not want Mike Priest dabbling in hockey operations again. But there is no one else to hold Jarmo accountable.

 

[EDM]

This franchise in a very difficult situation. It is questionable if there is sufficient young talent here to create a new "core". It is also highly unlikely that any offensively gifted UFA would be willing to sign here. We would face a difficult time building thru the draft because of those lost second and third round picks. Jarmo has really screwed this franchise up. While I like Torts, it seesm life firing him is the only thing that can be done to create the illusion that management is trying to do something constructive.

 

[Ice9]

What is also frightening to me is that there is no one above Jarmo on the hockey side of the franchise. Certainly we do not want Mike Priest dabbling in hockey operations again. But there is no one else to hold Jarmo accountable.

Does Jarmo write the paychecks out of his account? There's ALWAYS someone above.

 

[EDM]

Read what I said: On The Hockey Side of Operations. Do you have any recollection at all how bad things were when Mike Priest extended his financial position & started making trades?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

This franchise in a very difficult situation. It is questionable if there is sufficient young talent here to create a new "core". It is also highly unlikely that any offensively gifted UFA would be willing to sign here. We would face a difficult time building thru the draft because of those lost second and third round picks. Jarmo has really screwed this franchise up. While I like Torts, it seesm life firing him is the only thing that can be done to create the illusion that management is trying to do something constructive.

As you said, the talent level isn't here. There is no star in the making. Seth Jones is a #1D and nothing more. He's not a Norris level dman. PLD is a good player but not a franchise player. The veteran core is below average. The young forwards are nothing special. As a group, they might be below average.

It's a mess. Thanks, Jarmo!

 

[Ice9]

Read what I said: On The Hockey Side of Operations. Do you have any recollection at all how bad things were when Mike Priest extended his financial position & started making trades?

Yeah, I think I missed that key line! Ooops...

 

[DJA]

As you said, the talent level isn't here. There is no star in the making. Seth Jones is a #1D and nothing more. He's not a Norris level dman. PLD is a good player but not a franchise player. The veteran core is below average. The young forwards are nothing special. As a group, they might be below average.

It's a mess. Thanks, Jarmo!

Every time he said his canned line “we’re still going to have a good team even if all the UFAs leave” after the trade deadline/ in the offseason, I cringed a little inside because I knew he was peddling pure, unadulterated bullshit.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Every time he said his canned line “we’re still going to have a good team even if all the UFAs leave” after the trade deadline/ in the offseason, I cringed a little inside because I knew he was peddling pure, unadulterated bull****.

He's a snake oil salesman who is now exposed for what he is for anyone who wants to see it.

If it weren't for Stan Bowman going full moron on the Panarin/Saad trade, Kekalainen wouldn't have the last 2 playoff appearances to hang his hat on. And both of those playoff appearances were by the narrowest of margins.

 

[thebus88]

Not saying I'm happy with all (or necessarily even most) of the decisions that have been made over time, but, it really seems both Jarmo and Torts are in a -damned if I do, damned if I don't- situation involving most of you.

Also, I find the (imo) contradicting opinions expressed involving supposed "short term" and "long term" thinking and/or memories, interesting.

The expectation's of the teams "performance" and the quality of the farm system that would be "acceptable" to many CBJ fans on here, is NOT acceptable, imo.

It seems that I became a CBJ fan many-many years ago for the EXACT reason many Ohio/Columbus people (aka "CBJ fans") have trouble being a CBJ fan. Sad, but, not surprised.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Not saying I'm happy with all (or necessarily even most) of the decisions that have been made over time, but, it really seems both Jarmo and Torts are in a -damned if I do, damned if I don't- situation involving most of you.

Also, I find the (imo) contradicting opinions expressed involving supposed "short term" and "long term" thinking and/or memories, interesting.

The expectation's of the teams "performance" and the quality of the farm system that would be "acceptable" to many CBJ fans on here, is NOT acceptable, imo.

It seems that I became a CBJ fan many-many years ago for the EXACT reason many Ohio/Columbus people (aka "CBJ fans") have trouble being a CBJ fan. Sad, but, not surprised.

Not saying your point at large is wrong, but Didn’t you pick the CBJ to make the playoffs with 100+ points? It seems like you agreed with more than a few moves that were made.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Not saying I'm happy with all (or necessarily even most) of the decisions that have been made over time, but, it really seems both Jarmo and Torts are in a -damned if I do, damned if I don't- situation involving most of you.

Jarmo sold the public on this team - that they believed Wennberg could be a productive 2nd line center (LOL), that Bemstrom was the next Swedish wunderkind, that he was comfortable with his goalies because they trust Korpisalo to handle the workload (based on his 20 games...four years ago I guess?) and Elvis was the best goalie outside of the NHL, and that this team could get back to scoring by committee the way they did in the season prior to Panarin arriving. Torts called fans "dumb" for questioning Larsen's ability on the PP just weeks before he...wait...replaced Larsen on the PP at Larsen's suggestion.

You can go back through the threads, but all of these were critiqued, if not criticized at the time. Also, we're fans. These guys are getting paid to put a winning team together. They say outright every year that the goal is the Cup. They're currently the 5th-worst team in the league!

The expectation's of the teams "performance" and the quality of the farm system that would be "acceptable" to many CBJ fans on here, is NOT acceptable, imo.

Jarmo has set the expectation, not us. He's the one who has come out and said the goal is the Cup. The Rangers were up front with their fans a couple years ago when they said basically, "yeah, we suck. So we're going to trade some guys off and probably suck a little longer but stick with us because we're rebuilding to try to contend for a Cup." That's honesty! Also, the farm system in the offseason was ranked as one of the worst in the NHL by unbiased, third party outlets. I'm not sure why a bottom 5 farm system should be acceptable when we have precisely one first round playoff series win to show for it?​

 

[JacketsDavid]

Every time he said his canned line “we’re still going to have a good team even if all the UFAs leave” after the trade deadline/ in the offseason, I cringed a little inside because I knew he was peddling pure, unadulterated bull****.

Maybe Jarmo is a Clone of IDWT?

Look I trust Jarmo much more than any other GM we have ever had. In 20 years (or whenever those guys can speak) I will be anxious to hear if everyone was onboard for last season's moves (keep Bread and Bob, then add Duchene, etc). I get why JD did it (I'm assuming he knew he had a good change of the NYR job mid-season), but would love to hear where ownership and Jarmo stood?

 

[Monstershockey]

Some of these fans crack me up. This team lost two huge parts in Panarin and Bob. They have guys struggling big time, and up until 9 games ago, when they started messing with the coaches, they were still eaning 50 percent of the available points. It hasn't even been half a season since the last playoff appearence and people want the only coach and GM that brought 3 straight playoff appearances gone. I am sure most of you thought when they swept Tampa, Jarmo made the right moves. It didn't work. These guys still deserve a chance to make it right. Its only been 29 games.

 

[koteka]

Jarmo has set the expectation, not us. He's the one who has come out and said the goal is the Cup.

The team was also trying to sell season tickets, etc. What else is he going to say? This isn’t an original 6 franchise with a high demand for tickets. We are a franchise where people from Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Toronto can come catch a game with decent seats and spend less (including hotel and travel costs) than they would have at their home rink.

 

[Viqsi]

Some of these fans crack me up. This team lost two huge parts in Panarin and Bob. They have guys struggling big time, and up until 9 games ago, when they started messing with the coaches, they were still eaning 50 percent of the available points. It hasn't even been half a season since the last playoff appearence and people want the only coach and GM that brought 3 straight playoff appearances gone. I am sure most of you thought when they swept Tampa, Jarmo made the right moves. It didn't work. These guys still deserve a chance to make it right. Its only been 29 games.

I've more or less come to the conclusion that some folks spend all their "dealing with adversity" capital on things other than hockey and so the freakouts happen here.

I generally prefer to have mine in private, where possible.