The Jarmo Report Card Part Deux or How About that Nathan Horton Fiasco

[EspenK]

The old Jarmo thread was closed so I started this one to keep track of and kvetch about Jarmo & his dealings.

First order of business:

I saw an interesting question on 1st Ohio Battery asking whether you would take Yzerman as GM over Jarmo. I was surprised by the responses to their poll. Who would you prefer?

Click to read more...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Thread is gonna need more than "I think X is better than Y" to remain interesting, you guys. Just sayin.' Jarmo's work is certainly a thread-worthy topic, so please do your best.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Clearly I'd rather have Yzerman, but he's going to Detroit.

Jarmo has been fine. I hate the way he deals with some roster decisions (Letestu in 2014, MacKenzie, Cole, etc) but he is very good at trades. We don't participate enough in UFA to really grade him, but Horton was a huge blunder, and we'll see with Nash. His drafting is very hit or miss. I'd say a solid B-.

 

[EspenK]

I too would prefer Yzerman.

Couple of issues with Jarmo, the biggest one being his strict adherence to the brick by brick theory. I still don't understand why we didn't keep Vanek a 50 point guy. To free up a spot for an untested rookie? Seems like this team would be better for a deep run this year with Vanek than without him, especially considering that the Bob & Bread fiascos had not yet surfaced.

 

[stevo61]

Meh im fine seeing Vanek go. Its a young team with young guys that need a chance to prove themselves, cant bury guys forever. I expect 2 of Bjorkstrand, Milano or Duclair to take off this year. Looks like we can finally be a 4 line team again so cant be upset about that.
Jarmo had some growing pains with vet contracts in the past but I think hes learned and moved on, Im very happy with his work. The one situation im not exactly pleased with is the Bob situation. Im really left shaking my head wondering if he watching the same games i am with how Bob gets left out to dry in the playoffs. I understand they see potential and cap savings with Elvis+Korpi but I still dont like it.
Overall I think Jarmo is closer to Yzerman than many believe

 

[major major]

Yzerman has had a lot longer tenure to build up talent. He also started out with a team that had Stamkos and MSL, in a place where free agents like to go to. I give him the edge just based on his insane draft record, but it's not a huge gap with Jarmo. I like Jarmo's drafting and his trades have been larcenous. If B is average, then B- seems awfully low to me, I think Jarmo's around an A-/B+.

Meh im fine seeing Vanek go. Its a young team with young guys that need a chance to prove themselves, cant bury guys forever. I expect 2 of Bjorkstrand, Milano or Duclair to take off this year. Looks like we can finally be a 4 line team again so cant be upset about that.
Jarmo had some growing pains with vet contracts in the past but I think hes learned and moved on, Im very happy with his work. The one situation im not exactly pleased with is the Bob situation. Im really left shaking my head wondering if he watching the same games i am with how Bob gets left out to dry in the playoffs. I understand they see potential and cap savings with Elvis+Korpi but I still dont like it.
Overall I think Jarmo is closer to Yzerman than many believe

I agree - Vanek and Cole came cheap too, I'm sure Jarmo feels confident he can find the equivalent again if need be. For now we need to give time to the younger guys and see what they can do.

Agreed about Bob. He feels disrespected by the FO, as he should.

 

[thebus88]

Ya its time for some to get over Vanek and Cole.

They were not "difference makers" nor any sort of "x factor".

Ditching Brassard and Moore for Gaborik is the worst move.

I still think Horton had a bad back and didn't tell anybody HOW bad.

 

[EspenK]

Vanek has averaged in the neighborhood of .6ppg for the last 4 or 5 seasons. I don't see us having anyone that is more than a possibility to do that. Put him in as the 6th Top 6 F's and that group gets a whole lot stronger in my opinion.

 

[thebus88]

Vanek has averaged in the neighborhood of .6ppg for the last 4 or 5 seasons. I don't see us having anyone that is more than a possibility to do that. Put him in as the 6th Top 6 F's and that group gets a whole lot stronger in my opinion.

This isn't fantasy hockey or EHM 2007.

 

[MoeBartoli]

This isn't fantasy hockey or EHM 2007.

I’d like 20-23 “fantasy” goals along with the PPGs, especially since PPG tend to be a fantasy for us.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Yzerman has had a lot longer tenure to build up talent. He also started out with a team that had Stamkos and MSL, in a place where free agents like to go to. I give him the edge just based on his insane draft record, but it's not a huge gap with Jarmo. I like Jarmo's drafting and his trades have been larcenous. If B is average, then B- seems awfully low to me, I think Jarmo's around an A-/B+

Yzerman took over a team that hadn't made the playoffs in four seasons, turned over almost the entire defensive corps in an offseason, and the Lightning came within a game of the SCF that very year.

Here, the current regime has been on the job for six years and the team has better players but still hasn't progressed any further than the one it replaced. That's despite inheriting a two-time Vezina-winning goalie and an entire playoff team, having enough valuable assets to be able to trade, hiring their guy as coach, and having incredible investments finally made into scouting and off-ice staff.

 

[Nanabijou]

Yzerman took over a team that hadn't made the playoffs in four seasons, turned over almost the entire defensive corps in an offseason, and the Lightning came within a game of the SCF that very year.

Here, the current regime has been on the job for six years and the team has better players but still hasn't progressed any further than the one it replaced. That's despite inheriting a two-time Vezina-winning goalie and an entire playoff team, having enough valuable assets to be able to trade, hiring their guy as coach, and having incredible investments finally made into scouting and off-ice staff.

There's so much wrong here, but what's the point? You do you.

Howson's last 5 full seasons as GM:
4 missed playoffs, 1 playoff appearances - 0 playoff game wins

Jarmo's last 5 full seasons as GM
2 missed playoffs, 3 playoff appearances - 5 playoff game wins
Plus 3 highest regular season point totals in CBJ franchise history

Everyone wants to see more playoff success. But I can't help you if you truly believe there has been no progress.

 

[Mayor Bee]

There's so much wrong here, but what's the point? You do you.

Howson's last 5 full seasons as GM:
4 missed playoffs, 1 playoff appearances - 0 playoff game wins

Jarmo's last 5 full seasons as GM
2 missed playoffs, 3 playoff appearances - 5 playoff game wins
Plus 3 highest regular season point totals in CBJ franchise history

Everyone wants to see more playoff success. But I can't help you if you truly believe there has been no progress.

It's awfully easy to make the playoffs when you inherit a team like that.

The 2012-13 team was almost entirely Howson's, with the exception of 12 games of Marian Gaborik and 9 games of Blake Comeau (Kekalainen acquisitions), plus what remained of Boll, Dorsett, Mason, and Brassard (MacLean acquisitions). That team missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker. The 2013-14 team, which made the playoffs, had 36 games of Nathan Horton, 9 games of Nick Schultz, and CBJ legends Corey Tropp and Jack Skille added.

No matter how you cut it, this was a playoff team. And they played a tough, relentless brand of hockey that we'd all been waiting years to see. It looked like that 2013-14 team was going to be the one to build upon and break through to contending, and yet here we are four years later as the only one of 31 NHL teams that has never won a playoff series. They've gotten exactly no further than what that team did: a Game 6 loss in the first round to end the season.

I don't consider three additional playoff game wins to be major progress compared to where this team was.

 

[major major]

No matter how you cut it, this was a playoff team. And they played a tough, relentless brand of hockey that we'd all been waiting years to see. It looked like that 2013-14 team was going to be the one to build upon and break through to contending, and yet here we are four years later as the only one of 31 NHL teams that has never won a playoff series. They've gotten exactly no further than what that team did: a Game 6 loss in the first round to end the season.

I don't consider three additional playoff game wins to be major progress compared to where this team was.

It was. The cupboards were full, as Jarmo acknowledged when he moved in. Howson was good at that. But Jarmo had to rebuild the defence.

This was the defence in 2014-15, which Jarmo inherited:

Fedor Tyutin (done)
James Wisniewski (done)
Jack Johnson (might as well be done)
Ryan Murray (injured)
David Savard (okay he's still good)
Then a bunch of scrubs....

Not exactly prepared for a consistent upward trajectory. Go ahead and compare it to the D group Jarmo built.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Positives: Jones, Werenski, Nutivaara, most likely PLD, Panarin, Saad, Hartnell/getting rid of Umberger, Gagner (signing and making decision not to re up), 2017-18 TDL aquisitons, 2016-17 season, 2 consecutive playoff appearances.

Negatives: Dubinsky contract, Horton, Clarkson, Karlsson, Marchessault, Bob (4 year deal instead of longer), possibly handling of Panarin, definitely handled Johansen poorly, Rychel, Milano, lack of shoring up center depth, not re signing Vanek.

Too soon to call: Bjorkstrand, Wennberg, numerous recent draft picks, Duclair, Reilly Smith

Very much a mixed bag. Certainly improved the defense dramatically. Horton/Clarkson/Karlsson debacle not good. Lucked into Panarin-Thanks Stan Bowman! Unlucky that team has played ultimate SC winners in round 1.

Doubt he would still be here (the broadcaster even more so) if ownership were as engaged and as committed to excellence with the CBJ as they are in their core businesses.

B-/C+.

Yzerman in half a heartbeat over JK.

 

[EspenK]

^^^^^^^^

Pretty good recap.

Don't know if I fault him for the Karlsson situation...I don't believe anyone saw his Vegas performance coming...same with Jam.

Still don't understand why he waited to buy out Hartnell...could have protected another guy

 

[JacketsDavid]

I would fall in B-/C+.
Team is definitely better but let's be honest the team was horrible in initial years and left the cupboards bare for Howson. Then Howson rebuilt everything and left a really good team for Jarmo.
Made a lot of good trades - but lot of those had to do with us having Cap room and taking advantage of other teams.

IMO he should have been fired for Horton (someone should have been). Then to trade that screw up for the worst contract in the league (Clarkson). Then that eventually led to us giving up a 40 goal scorer and a first round pick to dump his contract. I get it that none of us saw that coming, but they guys seeing him practice everyday - it's their job to see the potential.

But team is better. Getting Seth Jones was an awesome move.

So much better team, but lot of work to do.

 

[MoeBartoli]

It's awfully easy to make the playoffs when you inherit a team like that.

The 2012-13 team was almost entirely Howson's, with the exception of 12 games of Marian Gaborik and 9 games of Blake Comeau (Kekalainen acquisitions), plus what remained of Boll, Dorsett, Mason, and Brassard (MacLean acquisitions). That team missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker. The 2013-14 team, which made the playoffs, had 36 games of Nathan Horton, 9 games of Nick Schultz, and CBJ legends Corey Tropp and Jack Skille added.

No matter how you cut it, this was a playoff team. And they played a tough, relentless brand of hockey that we'd all been waiting years to see. It looked like that 2013-14 team was going to be the one to build upon and break through to contending, and yet here we are four years later as the only one of 31 NHL teams that has never won a playoff series. They've gotten exactly no further than what that team did: a Game 6 loss in the first round to end the season.

I don't consider three additional playoff game wins to be major progress compared to where this team was.

I'll grant you this - he was better at assembling players than coaches.... fired Hitchcock (naming Noel as interim); hired Arneil; then promoted/hired Richards. The only one in that group who had a future as a head coach was the one he inherited and fired (Hitch).

Edit: I do give Howson props for cleaning up the mess left by carnival barker GMDM.

 

[Viqsi]

It was. The cupboards were full, as Jarmo acknowledged when he moved in. Howson was good at that. But Jarmo had to rebuild the defence.

This was the defence in 2014-15, which Jarmo inherited:

Fedor Tyutin (done)
James Wisniewski (done)
Jack Johnson (might as well be done)
Ryan Murray (injured)
David Savard (okay he's still good)
Then a bunch of scrubs....

Not exactly prepared for a consistent upward trajectory. Go ahead and compare it to the D group Jarmo built.

...that's pretty much the point I was about to make, so you get a cookie.

I mean, yes, Howson doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves, but it's possible to acknowledge that without tearing down Kekalainen.

 

[major major]

Horton/Clarkson/Karlsson debacle

Let's keep the record clear on this: Clarkson cost a 1st round pick to unload. That was worked out separately from the Karlsson selection.

 

[CharlotteJacket]

Then Howson rebuilt everything and left a really good team for Jarmo.

Howson left an average to slightly above average team for Jarmo.


IMO he should have been fired for Horton (someone should have been).

I never know who to blame for that mess. Jarmo, JD, Priest, McConnell? Someone made the decision not to in sure that contract. The CBJ hasn't had real good luck with high priced UFA's.

EDIT: Sorry for the formatting difficulties

 

[JacketsDavid]

Let's keep the record clear on this: Clarkson cost a 1st round pick to unload. That was worked out separately from the Karlsson selection.

I think it was all same trade with a first and a third sent to Vegas for Clarkson and Vegas had to select Wild Bill. Best I can tell it's all same deal?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Let's keep the record clear on this: Clarkson cost a 1st round pick to unload. That was worked out separately from the Karlsson selection.

But Horton led to Clarkson. And Clarkson was a key piece in the sum of deals w/Vegas.

The Vegas deals have to be examined in their totality, IMO.

 

[Monk]

I'm still not confident Karlsson would be the player he's regarded as being now if he were still a CBJ.

 

[Hello Johnny]

I think it was all same trade with a first and a third sent to Vegas for Clarkson and Vegas had to select Wild Bill. Best I can tell it's all same deal?

From what I understand it was a first for Clarkson and a 2nd to NOT select Anderson or Korpisalo.