The Jake Gardiner Situation

[WTFMAN99]

HockeyIntangibles: The Jake Gardiner Situation

There are a lot of big questions coming up this off-season with the Toronto Maple Leafs and Jake Gardiner's status is one of the most important ones.

I think this is a very under the radar discussion

P.S. We're now officially www.hockeyintangibles.com and have a full time Vancouver guy on (@Steven Rush ). @Daisy Jane has also joined on for Leafs content.

Cheers guys

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[Menzinger]

I’d say that unless Dubas plans on resigning him, Gardiner gets traded this summer. I can’t see him being keen on losing an asset for nothing. That said If Gardiner’s asking price is reasonable Leafs may resign him.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Ideally he gets re-signed on a team friendly deal. If not he has to be moved. Losing both JVR and Gardiner for nothing in back to back seasons will set us back

 

[MR4]

Only reason I'm even considering trading Gardiner is because of the epic f*** up by Lou choosing not to trade JVR & Bozak. What should've went down is:

Last year:
Leivo-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Kadri-Brown
Hyman-Nylander-Kapanen

Same D

Upcoming year: Keep Gardiner for the year, then have Dermott replace him in the year after, with a plan to either sign a top RD or acquire one using some of the stockpiled assets from the JVR/Bozak trades. Maybe trade Brown, or just 4th line him, so then Johnsson could be in top 9

Leivo-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Kadri-Hyman
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen
Grundstrom-Aaltonen-Brown

Season after next (Lilly ready, Grundstrom ready for top 9):
Grundstrom-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Kadri-Hyman
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen

Rielly-New RD
Dermott-Liljegren
Borgman/Rosen-Zaitsev

Andersen-Sparks
---
Please don't respond to my post if you're just gonna whine about the Leivo mentions.. lol

 

[Kiwi]

I’d say that unless Dubas plans on resigning him, Gardiner gets traded this summer. I can’t see him being keen on losing an asset for nothing. That said If Gardiner’s asking price is reasonable Leafs may resign him.

If he'd take 6×6 I'd sign him right now

But in no way should this not be resolved this off-season, resign him or trade him I don't care which but do not walk him to free agency like JVR without a plan

 

[WTFMAN99]

If he'd take 6×6 I'd sign him right now

But in no way should this not be resolved this off-season, resign him or trade him I don't care which but do not walk him to free agency like JVR without a plan

I agree. It was a slow moving train we all saw with JVR (and to a lesser extent Bozak), but it happened. It can't happen with Gardiner this off-season. I think it makes sense to try to facilitate a trade no later then the draft. It'll be harder to wrangle 2019 draft picks out of teams that soon.

I think it'll have to be futures for Gardiner and if we want to then use the new assets to land something else, we can.

 

[Daisy Jane]

trade him.
the end.

 

[Brobust]

I’d say that unless Dubas plans on resigning him, Gardiner gets traded this summer. I can’t see him being keen on losing an asset for nothing. That said If Gardiner’s asking price is reasonable Leafs may resign him.

Same situation as with JVR last offseason. Lamoriello was too reluctant to move him. I'm hoping that Dubas is more progressive in his thinking.

 

[SnizzMitch]

If he'd take 6×6 I'd sign him right now

But in no way should this not be resolved this off-season, resign him or trade him I don't care which but do not walk him to free agency like JVR without a plan

Completely agree with this. It doesn’t matter what they do with him, as long as they get something valuable out of him this summer.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Gotta change things up and he's a valuable trading chip

 

[Duke Silver]

Can't lose another guy to free agency for nothing and he's likely to price himself off our team next season... make the move, Dubas.

The thought of him making $6m a year for us makes me queasy. Feed Dermott his minutes.

 

[Zybalto]

edit wrong forum.

 

[Al14]

If he'd take 6×6 I'd sign him right now

But in no way should this not be resolved this off-season, resign him or trade him I don't care which but do not walk him to free agency like JVR without a plan

No more than Rielly, or, he is GONZO! JMHO!

 

[Menzinger]

Same situation as with JVR last offseason. Lamoriello was too reluctant to move him. I'm hoping that Dubas is more progressive in his thinking.

Lou took be traditional approach. I’m hoping Dubas will be more proactive about asset management

 

[BlueBaron]

trade him.
the end.

I endorse this message.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

He has definitively shown himself to be unreliable in clutch situations. 2nd pairing d-man at best. I wouldn't pay a 2nd pairing d-man $6M x 6years. Basically, I don't really like him at this point.

 

[Hunter368]

IMO,

Leafs don't need cap space this season.......so hold onto Gardiner at least until Dermott shows this season he can handle a promotion to 2nd pairing. Heck give Dermott more and more time as 2nd pairing, ease him into it. Last the Leafs want to do is make a knee jerk reaction, trade Gardiner away and then realize Dermott isn't ready. That would lead to a wasted season or at least wasted resources getting a short term bridge guy to get you through this season. If Derrmott looks good throughout the season getting more & more responsibility then trade Gardner at the TDL if the Leafs are hell bent on trading him or keep him for depth for the playoffs.

Yes, I acknowledge my opinion above is a conservative one.....but in heavens name do the Leafs want to expose themselves to the risk of no 2nd pairing LHD if Gardiner is traded and Dermott isn’t ready for full time top 4 duty over a 82 game regular season & playoffs.

 

[WTFMAN99]

No more than Rielly, or, he is GONZO! JMHO!

RFA vs UFA

 

[diceman934]

Gardiner will be resigned. It was Dubas who signed him to his last contract as he spoke about his analytics.

Nothing has changed as his numbers are still very good nothing a decent partner could not cure 6-7 years at 5.50 to 6m per. Still a contract that can be moved.

I would not trade him unless we are getting back a young D man with up side as a part of the return. Edmonton would love him as would the Pens.

 

[Kiwi]

I agree. It was a slow moving train we all saw with JVR (and to a lesser extent Bozak), but it happened. It can't happen with Gardiner this off-season. I think it makes sense to try to facilitate a trade no later then the draft. It'll be harder to wrangle 2019 draft picks out of teams that soon.

I think it'll have to be futures for Gardiner and if we want to then use the new assets to land something else, we can.

I'd think futures is probably how we get the most value out of him if he's traded and that's what the aim should be in that scenario

I'd rather keep him but that's an option

trade him.
the end.

Respectfully Daisy, God no

He's being under appreciated for one awful performance

Completely agree with this. It doesn’t matter what they do with him, as long as they get something valuable out of him this summer.

If he's traded i completely agree

No more than Rielly, or, he is GONZO! JMHO!

UFA vs RFA
At 6M he's good value still

IMO,

Leafs don't need cap space this season.......so hold onto Gardiner at least until Dermott shows this season he can handle a promotion to 2nd pairing. Heck give Dermott more and more time as 2nd pairing, ease him into it. Last the Leafs want to do is make a knee jerk reaction, trade Gardiner away and then realize Dermott isn't ready. That would lead to a wasted season or at least wasted resources getting a short term bridge guy to get you through this season. If Derrmott looks good throughout the season getting more & more responsibility then trade Gardner at the TDL if the Leafs are hell bent on trading him or keep him for depth for the playoffs.

We tried that it didn't go well

There is no way we can hang onto Gardiner until the TDL and trade him if we're in a playoff position

All that does is box us in like JVR and Bozak did to us this season with very few options to get out of it

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ideally he gets re-signed on a team friendly deal. If not he has to be moved. Losing both JVR and Gardiner for nothing in back to back seasons will set us back

Perfect summary IMO.

trade him.
the end.

Depending on circumstances, this may end up being the best option. Framing this as the only option to be considered however makes zero sense. Perhaps you'd like to offer some reasoning behind this inflexible stance of yours?

 

[LeafsNation75]

If Gardiner does get traded what could the Leafs realistically get in return? I know some people are of the mindset to trade him just for the sake of it or trade him since he could become a UFA in July 2019. However based on his play during the playoffs especially Game 7 when he was not good, wouldn't teams interested give a low ball offer?

 

[hamzarocks]

For the first month after game 7 I would have sold Gardiner for a 2nd round pick, I feel like a lot of leaf fans were similarly very upset about his poor play in such a big game. However as time passed I realize how effective jake Gardiner is and the fact that he had a great regular season. Gardiner is a 2/3 dman who has been given poor partners to play with for a long time. People value guys like tanev, hjalmarsson, faulk, brodie etc but Gardiner is a better and more valuable defender than those guys both analytically speaking and statistically speaking.

@Morgs @Nithoniniel could probably provide anyone interested a more in depth review on why Gardiner excels as a defender and why his mistakes are minimal compared to his significant offensive and transitioning abilities for our backend. For me, its pretty simple. We are trying to sell Gardiner off for defenders who are not overall as valuable as gardiner(Gardiner is a very high end offensive player imo).

We are banking a lot on dermott being a top 4 defender next season when he was our worst defender in the playoffs and played bottom pairing mins in the regular season. I feel dermott will be ready to handle these minutes as time moves on but he needs support. I feel investing in Jake on a 5 year deal for 6.25 million is a fair deal for both sides.

We can have a Gardiner or rielly transition to the right side and pair them together. I want to see these two play together on a elite team with a more balanced offensive forward group. Trading/Letting Gardiner walk is not beneficial for the leafs aa we likely dont have a LHD who can play in the second pair and be as valuable as Jake for the next 2-3 years(this is when I predict Dermott overtakes Gardiner for on ice impact).

Gardiner beforw this playoff series against the bruins has 13 games of playing like a elite number 1 against bruins in 13 and caps in 17. For all his boneheaded mistakes, he has the ability to munch minutes, generate offense and move the puck out of our zone cleanly and consistently. I really hope dubas and Babcock view him as a support piece to the core like kadri and Andersen. I want him back on a 5 year deal b/w 5.75 to 6.25 million.

 

[Hunter368]

We tried that it didn't go well

There is no way we can hang onto Gardiner until the TDL and trade him if we're in a playoff position

All that does is box us in like JVR and Bozak did to us this season with very few options to get out of it

Keep him then for a playoff push, always need extra D. Not sure how people are so confident in a very young & inexperienced Dermott to gift him a top 4 role......failure would mean a missed deep playoff push and perhaps stunt Dermott’s development of rushed too soon. The Leafs are a developing young team.....not a rebuilding one. Leafs had a great season this year and lost in round one vs a good opponent.....but those young players gained invaluable experience along the way......that will show eventually. Good teams let good players walk for free when they have a shot at a deep run and Leafs had a chance this year.....and they will have a chance for multi more years ahead.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Keep him then for a playoff push, always need extra D. Not sure how people are so confident in a very young & inexperienced Dermott to gift him a top 4 role......failure would mean a missed deep playoff push and perhaps stunt Dermott’s development of rushed too soon. The Leafs are a developing young team.....not a rebuilding one. Leafs had a great season this year and lost in round one vs a good opponent.....but those young players gained invaluable experience along the way......that will show eventually. Good teams let good players walk for free when they have a shot at a deep run and Leafs had a chance this year.....and they will have a chance for multi more years ahead.

Good teams don't do that year after year though or they run out of players and are no longer that good.