The importance of PR Debate

[Drury_Sakic]

This debate sort of started on the Vinny Dampy thread, but I think it is deserving of its own thread..

How does good PR help the NHLPA? And what would it cost in time and resources to try to do something about it?


This is negotiation between two private parties, the public are essentially spectators and have little impact.

Its not as important in this negotiation as others, as the owners are all seemingly dedicated to fixing the problem....but..

well.. there you have it... The "problem" is one area were PR is used.. The owners have managed to convince the public that there is a problem with the league( the financial side for this argument)... and they have managed to place the blame in the fans eyes almost 100% on the players, when it was the OWNERS who gave the PLAYERS the foolish contracts and resigned the CBA not once, but TWICE....

and thats the second point... one of the reasons the NHL signed the CBA two more times was the fans.. Part of it was expansion and its money.. but another reasoning behind it was because the game was going strong and seemed to be growing..they did not want to throw a wrench into the process and turn off Fans..

Its hard to argue that players that make millions will be hurt by making even just a few (hundred)thousand less.. and that is a problem for the Players and hard to argue from a PR standpoint to us Blue Collar guys...

But guess what.. the owners have us believing that men who make many hundreds of millions if not billions cannot afford to lose a few on a Hobby Sports Franchise.. and for that.. we have given them support to destroy the league(well, not quite, but most of us argue their side in the debate)..... And.. I am left to question how they made their money if they cannot maintain a profit margin on something as stupid as a sports franchise..

(IMO, you should not own a franchise unless you are open to the possiblity of losing money, or at best breaking even, its a hobby, not a place to make profit, but thats another argument)

Not only have they gotten the Fans on their side, but the media(at least a majority of it) have also turned against the players... These are the same players who got screwed countless times before the 90's... and we are a nation that really started the Union concept...but we have not given a hoot about the NHLPA..

The NHLPA gave back 24% of their pay!!!! While you can argue all you want about the actual meaning.. it still is ALOT OF CASH...Plus they were the first Union in pro sports to even consider a Hard Cap(again, the motive is still up in the air)... and we ABSOLUTLY HATE THEM right now...

All this while the Ownership gave nothing to the players that they did not have before.. simply taking things away....(again, someone will say, well they are making millions, what does that hurt? )



Now.... All that said... I am in favor right now of crushing the union... I started the season behind the players, looking at the owners proposals as a joke.......I moved towards the middle around X-mas.. back towards the players when Linden made the call in January..towards the owners about a week or two before the season was canned... and then solid onto their side after Bloody Sat......... Thats the PR working for you.... the NHL canned the season... and I end up supporting them???

The owners don't have to cave to Fan support...but it is important to them.... if they went into the last week of negotiation with a real feeling that the Fans were going to simply walk away from the game for good if a deal was not reached, they would have gotten something done, perhaps even going to the 47 mill mark... I really feel that.... But I think they knew that the players would come out with more mud on their face, and took the chance that they could get the PA to fold.. And I don't see many hard core fans totally just walking away from the NHL for good as long as ticket prices are set to acceptable levels next year..

Anyways.. thats alot of crap to read... and explaining what PR means in this "negotiation" is difficult..



:lol

Click to read more...

 

[iagreewithidiots]

The owners have managed to convince the public that there is a problem with the league( the financial side for this argument)... and they have managed to place the blame in the fans eyes almost 100% on the players, when it was the OWNERS who gave the PLAYERS the foolish contracts and resigned the CBA not once, but TWICE....

This is where so many people are so very wrong.

I dont think many people blame the players alone for the current mess. Nor do they think the owners are "asking" the players to clean it up for them. They realize both sides need to work together. If the NHL was trying fool people I dont think they did a very good job.

The current CBA isnt working anymore. Both sides have to work together. Most people understand that. The people that dont, listen to them babble for a few minutes, have serious issues and cannot be helped.

 

[AlexandreDaigle]

OK....

1) You're suggesting a 150 million dollar corporation is a "hobby"?



It's pretty rediculous for you or me to suggest that owners SHOULD run their company at a loss.

2) I don't give a flying **** whose fault this is. Nor do most fans. What most have decided is that we DO care about fixing it, and the owners side offers the best chance of that.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, that doesn't change what should be done going forward.

3) Yes, PR matters. The PA may think it's PR bulletproof, but the owners sure aren't. If the owners were getting crucified for their position it would be an untenable one. They aren't and for good reason.

 

[hockeymistress]

OK....

1) You're suggesting a 150 million dollar corporation is a "hobby"?



It's pretty rediculous for you or me to suggest that owners SHOULD run their company at a loss.

2) I don't give a flying **** whose fault this is. Nor do most fans. What most have decided is that we DO care about fixing it, and the owners side offers the best chance of that.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, that doesn't change what should be done going forward.

3) Yes, PR matters. The PA may think it's PR bulletproof, but the owners sure aren't. If the owners were getting crucified for their position it would be an untenable one. They aren't and for good reason.

The owners had a much more structured PR effort and stuck to it. Bettman didn't allow owners to speak to the press for a reason. He had his message points and he stuck to them. When owners were allowed to speak, they were probably coached on what they could and could not say, and the timing was appropriate.

The NHLPA should have put a gag order on the players. Their messages were inconsistent and a lot of their quotes made them come across as spoiled, unrealistic and immature. Then there were the flurry of retractions and misquotes. It would have been better for the NHLPA to stick to a few main message points and clearly answer the question, "Why do we not think a salary cap is necessary?" and if players were going to talk to the press, have them coached on exactly what to say, with answers prepared and memorized for tough questions.

I'm not sure if the NHLPA could have won the PR battle with their current position; however, I think they could have managed to have a lot more fan support if they stuck to a couple of main points.

If you were the NHLPA, what would your message points be?

H.

 

[kdb209]

Plus they were the first Union in pro sports to even consider a Hard Cap.

Do all the NFL players who've gotten cut the last several years because of the cap know this?

 

[vanlady]

OK....

1) You're suggesting a 150 million dollar corporation is a "hobby"?



It's pretty rediculous for you or me to suggest that owners SHOULD run their company at a loss.[QUOTE\]

Owners shouldn't run there businesses at a loss, but often do, for tax purposes. If a hockey team is part of a larger corportate structure that is making money hand over fist, they will often run subsidiaries at a loss to write down profits on other arms of the corporation. Telus is a prime example of this, there wired residential services is running at a heavy loss, but mobility is running at a huge profit margin, they balance each other so the company pays much less in corporate taxes to CCRA.

 

[chriss_co]

OK....

1) You're suggesting a 150 million dollar corporation is a "hobby"?



It's pretty rediculous for you or me to suggest that owners SHOULD run their company at a loss.[QUOTE\]

Owners shouldn't run there businesses at a loss, but often do, for tax purposes. If a hockey team is part of a larger corportate structure that is making money hand over fist, they will often run subsidiaries at a loss to write down profits on other arms of the corporation. Telus is a prime example of this, there wired residential services is running at a heavy loss, but mobility is running at a huge profit margin, they balance each other so the company pays much less in corporate taxes to CCRA.

So then how come only the NHL franchises are operating with huge losses where other leagues like the NFL and NBA are operating with profits (especially the NFL)??

and about PR... its a waste of time... i dont care about it and by now its too late.. the season is already cancelled.. bob has the union all over him... its over.. stop with the PR tactics... why not spend that time working on a CBA proposal... plus, the PA doesn't care about the fans (Goodenow wouldn't even apologize to the fans at the press conference until he was asked)... all the PA cares about is the top 5-10% of its union that is making over $3 million a year

 

[Drury_Sakic]

The NFL is operating at a profit for 3 reasons..

A) The TV contract

Its so fuggen huge that they don't need anything else to support the franchises..

B) The Ability to Cut/Release players

If a player starts to suck it up horribly, the NFL has a good policy towards cutting them, or buying out their contracts.

C) The Cap

The cap is at a number players and owners deem acceptable simply due to the revenue the league brings in... most players make millions... and the league brings in a TON of cash..

Which the NHL does not..

They broke their union... hard core.. and got exactly what they wanted..

Alot of MLB teams run in the red, even more just break even... the competitive balance is at the worst in MLB..

Yankees, Braves, Marlins, Twins, Red Sox, Angles

Anyone think a team outside of this group honestly is given a shot at winning a World Series? Not to say that one might not shock, say the Mets or someone of the like... but Any chance of Detroit wining? how about the Jays or Nationals..( bet I am missing a major contender on that list, but you get the point)

The NHL had the Flames reach the finals, The Preds looked darn good against the Wings... Minny dumped the Avs... The DUCKS almost beat Jearsy....

 

[Habnot]

It's always was and still is about PR. The owners have crushed the players in the PR arena by being better organized and more on message. How elso do you explain the players giving on every item and still being perceived as greedy?

I agree that the players benefitted from salaries that we not sustainable in the present economic-revenue model, but they have agreed to the following:
1. Immediate 24% salary rollback
2. Entry-level salary levels
3. Arbitration changes
4. Some sort of salary cap

You take any union, and it would be unimaginable that they would go into a negotiation and accept roll-backs in every item up for discussion. If the owners want drastic changes, they must also be open to discuss their sacred cows, such as revenue sharing and free-agency.

 

[Shark Attack]

It's always was and still is about PR. The owners have crushed the players in the PR arena by being better organized and more on message. How elso do you explain the players giving on every item and still being perceived as greedy?

I agree that the players benefitted from salaries that we not sustainable in the present economic-revenue model, but they have agreed to the following:
1. Immediate 24% salary rollback
2. Entry-level salary levels
3. Arbitration changes
4. Some sort of salary cap

You take any union, and it would be unimaginable that they would go into a negotiation and accept roll-backs in every item up for discussion. If the owners want drastic changes, they must also be open to discuss their sacred cows, such as revenue sharing and free-agency.

IT is an interesting start however, for your points listed above

1 - I believe that less than half of the league is actually signed at this point in time so the benefit is not nearly as great as one would expect.

2 - This is good point for the PA

3 - Not sure what changes you are talking about here as I don't believe that the changes were substanitive

4 - I don't think the PA has really come to grips with this yet. If they had back in September we would be watching hockey right now.

The owners must turn around and lower FA and come to grips with revenue sharing......

 

[AM]

Lol

OK....

1) You're suggesting a 150 million dollar corporation is a "hobby"?



It's pretty rediculous for you or me to suggest that owners SHOULD run their company at a loss.[QUOTE\]

Owners shouldn't run there businesses at a loss, but often do, for tax purposes. If a hockey team is part of a larger corportate structure that is making money hand over fist, they will often run subsidiaries at a loss to write down profits on other arms of the corporation. Telus is a prime example of this, there wired residential services is running at a heavy loss, but mobility is running at a huge profit margin, they balance each other so the company pays much less in corporate taxes to CCRA.

NO sorry, no other explanation, just keep them coming!

 

[Kestrel]

Why PR is important:

IF it comes down to scabs, will you watch them? Is the average fan more likely to watch a league with replacement players if they're on the owners' side, or the players side?

The supposed players' league (for argument's sake since I don't see it being that big a threat) - Are fans that think the players have been persecuted more willing to support player endeavors than fans that hate the players and think they ruined hockey?

The labour board - if this goes to the labour board, the labour board is supposed to look at the facts entirely independent of the public opinion arena, but the fact is, there's a good chance they WILL have been exposed to it, and it is very difficult to remain 100% objective. In other words, at the very least, how the NHLPA and the owners conduct themselves can have a substantial indirect effect on how the labour board thnks and rules. If the board is less objective than they should be, it's possible the conduct of these two parties in the PR department may even have a more direct impact.

PR isn't all there is to it, but it's important to this fight, make no mistake.