The Illusion of the rebuild

Discussion in 'New York Islanders' started by Darth Milbury, Oct 15, 2013.

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  1. Darth Milbury

    Darth Milbury Registered User

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    Ok, so here is what yanks my chain: Where is the freaking rebuild? Isles have had a gazillion early picks yet none of those guys will be in the lineup tonight. No Strome, Nelson, CDH, etc. Not even Donovan.

    I am all for giving guys a chance to develop at lower levels but there does come a time when you need to take your cake out of the oven.

    What bothers me is the Isles seem to still be in that same loop of giving marginal fill ins (like Bouchard and Regin, who are this year's Boyles) icetime instead of actually letting our kids play.

    I am not trying to start a rant thread here, just asking a legitimate question: The Islanders seem to either throw kids into the fire (like Bailey and Nino) or let then languish on the bench or AHL. There just doesn't seem to be a sensible development plan in place.
     
  2. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    At this stage I think they are happy with the team they have and aren't in a rush to insert a bunch of young players at once. If they did, they'd likely take a step back as a team. I view it as a way to limit growing pains in some areas.
     
  3. enigmatic

    enigmatic Fire me please

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    i agree with your sentiment, but you have to include guys like tavares, bailey, okposo, hamonic, cizikas, martin if you are going to make this claim (whether you are happy with where they are in their development or not)

    it is very frustrating though, as it is much tougher for players like nelson and donovan to improve when they are getting scratched every other game and cant get into the flow of things
     
  4. NEhockeycoach

    NEhockeycoach Registered User

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    I think that your first flaw in your question is your definition of a rebuild. A rebuild is not simply letting all of your high draft picks play right away, hoping they develop into super stars while the team suffers year after year (See Edmonton).

    A rebuild is when you make changes in the front office, behind the bench, and ultimately the teams philosophy. (See Boson)

    From a non-Islanders fan perspective, it seems like you guys have taken more of the "Boston" approach. You guys gave Pittsburgh all they could handle in 6 games last season, with sub-par goal tending.

    For teams to be successful in this league you need a good balance of young talent, and veteran leadership. Throw Tavares in the mix and you have something to be happy about.

    Enjoy these next few years, I think that the Isels are here to stay.
     
  5. scott99

    scott99 Registered User Sponsor

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    I agree with this to a certain extent. I think the frustration lies in that we seem to sign marginal players in the offseason, like Bouchard and Regin, and we are forced to play them, DESPITE our prospects like Strome and Nelson outplaying them at training camp (by a wide margin). Imagine a prospect doing whatever he can to make the team like Strome did, outplaying guys, yet still being sent down, despite obviously being better players than guys who make the team.

    I'm thinking fans would be alright with the Islanders had sent Strome down, IF the Isles had actually signed, good, talented players during the Free Agency period.
     
  6. 2ndGenIslander

    2ndGenIslander Barzal=Calder

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    This mostly. you don't just start guys based on where they were drafted. We obviously have guys in there that are NHL players that can help the team win now, obviously Strome isn't quite there yet and we don't want to stunt him. i think theyre doing the right thing and what's best for the team in the short and long term
     
  7. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    The question is, does Strome playing up with the Islanders benefit the team now and will it benefit them in the future?

    If Strome comes up and plays very little like Nino did, that's an issue. If he comes up and goes through a cold stretch and it is costing the team, do you send him back down?

    Strome playing could be a positive, but he'll also be taking minutes from guys like Bailey, Okposo, Grabner, etc. and if he isn't better than those guys it might be better for him to stay down until he is. Strome isn't going to replace Regin or any other 3rd liner we sign, he's going to take top 6 minutes and needs to be compared to those guys because it would be a mistake to bring him up and put him in Regin's role.
     
  8. Richie Daggers Crime

    Richie Daggers Crime Fistie Daggers Crime

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    Those guys will get to play. I'm not worried about it.
     
  9. 19NYSports91

    19NYSports91 Registered User

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    Isn't it a coaching decision that Nelson and Donovan aren't playing, not Snow's?
     
  10. gadiamon72

    gadiamon72 Registered User

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    Always good to see positive feedback from an outsider. I agree. I think the Isles are here to stay. A team needs to slowly build a strong foundation in order to sustain success. That's my conservative view. Look at all the years of impatience with Millbury. Now Snow has been very patient and some fans are getting antsy. I really think this team can be a perenial cup contender by the time they move to Brooklyn. I hope they don't mess this up.
     
  11. Darth Milbury

    Darth Milbury Registered User

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    Exactamundo. You just described my frustration completely, in a clearer fasion than I could. :handclap:
     
  12. Darth Milbury

    Darth Milbury Registered User

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    I wasn't blaming Snow - I think the problems pervade the entire organization.
     
  13. 19NYSports91

    19NYSports91 Registered User

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    I know, I'm just saying. The situation with Nelson looks similar to how they treated Ullstrom. I know Nelson obviously has the higher potential, but still. I don't like it one bit.
     
  14. redbull

    redbull tomorrow is a new day

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    Is the issue that:

    1) you believe that the islanders are better off in the LONG RUN if they play their younger players with higher upside today? So if Strait, Hickey, AMac were swapped for Reinhart, Pulock, deHaan (for example) and Bouchard, Regin with swapped for Nelson and Strome and Nabokov for Nilsson?

    OR

    2) does it frustrate you that NONE of the players have proven to be MUCH BETTER than the Regins/Bouchards/Boyes'/Carkners/Straits of the world?

    So, are the Islanders just not drafting and developing players that are GOOD ENOUGH to make the team better? hence, the rebuild is failing or has failed? Which is a fair point of view.

    Would you say Buffalo, Colorado, Edmonton, Florida (who have outstanding young prospects) are "ahead" of the Islanders in the rebuild?
    They still suck, but have outstanding young prospects.

    The Islanders are a pretty good team but some will say there are no blue-chip, elite, prospects (like MacKinnon, Yakupov, Hall?) - which is also a fair point of view.

    I'm somewhere in the middle. I like the depth of prospects (specifically Nelson, Strome, Reinhart, Pulock at the higher-end AND not far behind, Sundstrom, deHaan, Dononvan, Poulin/Nilsson types)

    But in the end, I'm happy if the team is winning. For example, why do we care if Strait and Hickey are BETTER than Donovan and deHaan? Is it simply because the Islanders DRAFTED the latter two? Do we think that if deHaan and Donovan were in there, it somehow makes Snow and the re-build more successful?

    I'd argue that it doesn't matter where the players come from NOR how old they are. As long as they can play and that the team wins.

    My frustration is that Bouchard & Regin may not be good enough and I DO believe our young guys like Nelson/Strome should absolutely be playing ahead of them. But I don't believe the same is true for deHaan and Donovan, because I think Hickey and Strait are probably a bit ahead of Matty right now. Though, I'd play Donovan anyway since I do believe he brings unique PP ability that the team lacks and he'll only get better defensively with time in the NHL.
     
  15. Darth Milbury

    Darth Milbury Registered User

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    Totally agree.

    One thing that worries me is that the message to both Donovan and Nelson is "You screw up, or even fail to badly outplay are marginal vets, and you ride the pine." That can't be good for self-confidence.
     
  16. BTrotts19

    BTrotts19 Registered User

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    OK this is Nelson's 2nd time sitting and other than the occasional "rest tired legs" it really needs to end at some point soon. Time for the training wheels to come off and get a sense of what we have here. I think most fans are generally OK with the patient approach but he needs to have some continuity and not constantly wonder if he is in the lineup or not-particularly when there other option is a PMB. As I have said before, if it were only the fact that PMB were just not scoring yet but chipping in with defense, physical play etc, you could say its just a matter of time but the general invisibility of him is really the most frustrating part. Let him work it out in practice, tinker with who he has chemistry with and then put him in. He is not in the long term plans, Nelson is and I think we need to let him have his spot unless Nelson has an egregious amount of errors or PMB shows something resembling a professional NHL player. Honestly, he looks like the rookie. Yes, it takes time in a new system, yes he has performed in the past, yes it is only a few games into the season but I think Nelson gives them a better chance to win now, even if he does nothing more than bang some bodies in the corner. End of my rant!! :rant:
     
  17. scott99

    scott99 Registered User Sponsor

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    We still can not find that 3rd wheel for Tavares and Moulson. Seems like nobody is right, Boyes, Okposo, why not Strome. The guy is an offensive dynamo. Just watching clips of him play at Bridgeport, he seems at another level than his teammates and his opposition. I know it hasn't translated to lots of goals and assists, but Bridgeport is lucky to score ONE goal per game. He's the best player at Bridgeport and he's played less than a dozen AHL games. Whether you play him on the first line with Tavares or the third line with Nelson, it's gotta be better offensively than Bouchard (who was supposed to replace Boyes) and Regin on the third line. Bouchard especially has brought nothing to the table.
     
  18. scott99

    scott99 Registered User Sponsor

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    Agreed, we are a better, more talented team with Nelson (and even Strome) in the lineup.
     
  19. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    Right, but if he's playing with the latter bunch, it might hinder his development rather than help because of the decrease in ice time.

    He isn't replacing Regin, he's going to take a top 6 role and force one of the top 6 down into that Regin/PMB role (we hope).
     
  20. Darth Milbury

    Darth Milbury Registered User

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    I don't really have a problem with Strome in the AHL, at least for part of the season.

    Nelson and Donovan sitting does piss me off though and, to me, epitomizes the larger pattern. Every season there is another waves of patches and castoffs who are higher in the ice time pecking order than our kids.
     
  21. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    I'm annoyed at the lack of time given to Nelson and Donovan as well. If they earned a spot, give them the time to play.

    It's a shame Ullstrom didn't stick around either (victim of a similar thing), because I could see him along with Nelson and Regin playing pretty well for that 3rd line.
     
  22. PWJunior

    PWJunior THE NORTH REMEMBERS!

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    The season is long with a lot of ebbs and flows. The Isles are trying to continue to progress from last season and integrate quite a few new faces whether it's a rookie or a free agent. While I'm a little frustrated with Nelson and Donovan sitting again, I can understand the move because we still have yet to determine exactly what CBuck, Regin, and PMB can bring to the table in the early going. We are not perennial contenders with little roster turnover so the season is going to be a work in progress. I think it's way too early to freak out over what the Isles are doing or not doing. There are going to need time to properly evaluate their assets and it's not going to kill the kiddie corps to sit and practice with the team. The Isles are being ultra conservative with the development of their prospects and I'm all for it.

    As long as the team continues to be successful (stay in playoff position), I don't care about the moves so early in the season. Give it at least 20-25 games or so before bringing out the pitchforks because there will be a bigger sample size to analyze. It's not about what team we have right now, it's all about what team we have after the Olympic break since that will truly be the time for this team to peak. The coaching staff is still evaluating, give them some time. If they start slipping down the standings early, then all bets are off. Otherwise, I'm happy that they are staying the course.
     
  23. 19NYSports91

    19NYSports91 Registered User

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    I have a problem with Capuano giving more ice time to veteran players who don't deserve it. Nelson played well in his first 3 games and gets scratched. Then next game he plays he doesn't play that well and then gets scratched again.

    Capuano has a problem with giving the younger guys more ice time when they deserve it, but he'll play the vets when they don't deserve it at all. Makes no sense and it bothers me.
     
  24. scott99

    scott99 Registered User Sponsor

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    Bingo !
     
  25. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    There is definitely some truth to the team not knowing what they have in Regin, PMB, and Clutterbuck. The sad part is that none of that has anything to do with Donovan sitting, but only Nelson.

    Nelson is a piece of the future and he does need to be in there to see what he can do as well, he can't be the go to scratch when there needs to be a shuffle in the lineup.
     

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