The Hodgson, Duchene and Grachev Thread

Faryn

Registered User
Dec 11, 2009
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Calgary AB
Eberle AINEC

haha I don't think he really needs to be brought up but I do remember getting into an argument with one of my canuck loving friends about who was better after the 2009 WJHC and remember saying I wouldn't trade Eberle for Hodgson and I remember him looking at me like I was nuts.

I was in Ottawa for the tournament saw every game hodgson was good but he tended to stack up points in blowouts and really was third best I thought out of the three of Taveres Eberle and Hodgson even though he ended with the most points.

That being said I was surprised at how slow his pro career started didn't put up great numbers in the A last year and thats not to mention that whole debacle he had with Alain Vigneault at training camp the year before (I know he did end up actually having a back problem it just seemed to really be handled badly by both sides) but I think he will turn into a great player never at Duchene's level though.

Duchene will be able to carry a team I think Hodgson will be more of a vital component of one were he does the important things that teams need to win just will never be a consistent first line player more of a good second that can fill in when needed.
 

BLAME CANADA*

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haha I don't think he really needs to be brought up but I do remember getting into an argument with one of my canuck loving friends about who was better after the 2009 WJHC and remember saying I wouldn't trade Eberle for Hodgson and I remember him looking at me like I was nuts.

I was in Ottawa for the tournament saw every game hodgson was good but he tended to stack up points in blowouts and really was third best I thought out of the three of Taveres Eberle and Hodgson even though he ended with the most points.

That being said I was surprised at how slow his pro career started didn't put up great numbers in the A last year and thats not to mention that whole debacle he had with Alain Vigneault at training camp the year before (I know he did end up actually having a back problem it just seemed to really be handled badly by both sides) but I think he will turn into a great player never at Duchene's level though.

Duchene will be able to carry a team I think Hodgson will be more of a vital component of one were he does the important things that teams need to win just will never be a consistent first line player more of a good second that can fill in when needed.

Hodgson very well has 1st line center potential and him being on pace for 40+ points playing on the 3rd line with Manny and Hansen is very solid number. Lets also consider he doesn't get the ice time nor the line mates that Eberle and Duchene get. I don't think Hodgson will be better than Duchene but I do believe he is showing amazing skill set with great vision and could very well be a solid #1 center. If you watch Hodgson out there his passing right now at 21 looks as solid as the Sedins!. Hodgson has been very underrated on this board since his back injury with most calling him a bust or will not be anything but a 3rd liner but Kesler was called these things and the Sedins were nothing more than 2nd line players so I'm ok with Hodgson following in those foot steps by HF standards.
 

Faryn

Registered User
Dec 11, 2009
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Calgary AB
Hodgson very well has 1st line center potential and him being on pace for 40+ points playing on the 3rd line with Manny and Hansen is very solid number. Lets also consider he doesn't get the ice time nor the line mates that Eberle and Duchene get. I don't think Hodgson will be better than Duchene but I do believe he is showing amazing skill set with great vision and could very well be a solid #1 center. If you watch Hodgson out there his passing right now at 21 looks as solid as the Sedins!. Hodgson has been very underrated on this board since his back injury with most calling him a bust or will not be anything but a 3rd liner but Kesler was called these things and the Sedins were nothing more than 2nd line players so I'm ok with Hodgson following in those foot steps by HF standards.

ya I agree that he hasn't been giving the linemates that eberle has (not sure about duchene I know from watching a couple oiler/avalanche games they do tend to try him away from their other top players to spark depth scoring). I dont think that you can compare his progression to keslars or the sedins for that matter a lot of factors came into account for the change in the sedins game I would say that the NHL cracking down on obstruction really helped them out and even when people only considered them 2nd liners it was because they were behind van's top line of morison naslund and bertuzzi you could always tell they were going to be there replacement there was just a few question marks with them. Keslar is a completely different animal he is a two way power forward if you will those are slow developers to say the least and yes he was undervalued for sure early on by many fans players like that do tend to develope late. hogson on the other hand I think is in a different situation with how well the team is doing he can be played in sheltered minutes I just dont really see the top line being in his future atleast on a consistent bases especially if he will be battling Kesler and the sedins for it he will be the 3rd best forward for awile.

dont get me wrong he does have the draft pedigree and the potential to become a number one center i just dont think he will. side note if players like shaun horcoff can be considered number one centers then ya I can see him being a number one center.
 

BLAME CANADA*

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ya I agree that he hasn't been giving the linemates that eberle has (not sure about duchene I know from watching a couple oiler/avalanche games they do tend to try him away from their other top players to spark depth scoring). I dont think that you can compare his progression to keslars or the sedins for that matter a lot of factors came into account for the change in the sedins game I would say that the NHL cracking down on obstruction really helped them out and even when people only considered them 2nd liners it was because they were behind van's top line of morison naslund and bertuzzi you could always tell they were going to be there replacement there was just a few question marks with them. Keslar is a completely different animal he is a two way power forward if you will those are slow developers to say the least and yes he was undervalued for sure early on by many fans players like that do tend to develope late. hogson on the other hand I think is in a different situation with how well the team is doing he can be played in sheltered minutes I just dont really see the top line being in his future atleast on a consistent bases especially if he will be battling Kesler and the sedins for it he will be the 3rd best forward for awile.

dont get me wrong he does have the draft pedigree and the potential to become a number one center i just dont think he will. side note if players like shaun horcoff can be considered number one centers then ya I can see him being a number one center.

Well I think you don't remember too well how people felt about the Twins. People on here were saying they'll be nothing more than 60pt 2nd liners, had nothing to do with the WCE line. Sedins have only been considered 1st liners on here for about 3ish years now.... really. People on here love to hate them and belittle them. Remember most saying Sedin had a breakout fluke year and others had a off year and that's why he won the Art Ross and same thing last year, Sedins get belittled a lot on here.

Hodgson is in the PERFECT spot to develop to his fullest learning behind and from the Sedins and Kesler and having Malhotra help him with f/o and defensive play is a huge plus. Hodgson is in a no pressure to perform spot and I could see him developing into a solid first liner down the road and has shown his high skill level. Canucks are set up well for this too if you look at ages with Hank Sedin 31, Kesler 27 and Hodgson 21. When Kesler times comes to take over the 1st line Hodgson gets the bump up to take over the 2nd line and then can take over the top line after Keslers days and Hodgson hitting his prime years then.
 

Faryn

Registered User
Dec 11, 2009
347
94
Calgary AB
Well I think you don't remember too well how people felt about the Twins. People on here were saying they'll be nothing more than 60pt 2nd liners, had nothing to do with the WCE line. Sedins have only been considered 1st liners on here for about 3ish years now.... really. People on here love to hate them and belittle them. Remember most saying Sedin had a breakout fluke year and others had a off year and that's why he won the Art Ross and same thing last year, Sedins get belittled a lot on here.

Hodgson is in the PERFECT spot to develop to his fullest learning behind and from the Sedins and Kesler and having Malhotra help him with f/o and defensive play is a huge plus. Hodgson is in a no pressure to perform spot and I could see him developing into a solid first liner down the road and has shown his high skill level. Canucks are set up well for this too if you look at ages with Hank Sedin 31, Kesler 27 and Hodgson 21. When Kesler times comes to take over the 1st line Hodgson gets the bump up to take over the 2nd line and then can take over the top line after Keslers days and Hodgson hitting his prime years then.

you wont find many second lines that score 60 plus points and the ones that do in most cases they will at the very least be fill ins for the first line. Ya your guys depth at center looks good for the future if you are able to hold onto all of them I mean you guys have them locked up for decent amount of time but I see this team being very different by the start of the 2014 season.

Development is a very tricky subject because it really depends on the player. Some players lose their offensive edge when getting stuck in a defensive role some have their offensive game disappear vs. higher competition but some will flourish vs. high competition.

I mean it really depends on the player just looking at the Oilers I can bring up so many players that I thought would be farther along in their development and others thats development caught me completely of guard. Look at Smid a player that has played on a very bad oilers team since joining the oilers in the Pronger trade he was used as a scape goat by many oilers fans in the last few years. But he has redeveloped his game and has been arguably our most important defensmen for them this year. His development has really been more of a baptism by fire and really even though he may have been rushed I dont think it ultimately hurt his long term development and you could make arguments that it may have helped.

There is much that can go wrong with a players development to say that one way is best for a player is very difficult to do. Maybe he will get lost in the depth chart and never develop into the player he is capable of.

I also want to add that I dont think the Sedins were ever considered long term as career 2nd liners by the canucks organization. HF has been very much a what have you done for me now board were fans tend to over hype their prospects and underrate other teams. I am not saying that I am right but I think Hodgson has to make some very large steps in his development to become that perennial first line center. But thats my opinion and well I am an Oilers fan so I could be biased.
 

BLAME CANADA*

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you wont find many second lines that score 60 plus points and the ones that do in most cases they will at the very least be fill ins for the first line. Ya your guys depth at center looks good for the future if you are able to hold onto all of them I mean you guys have them locked up for decent amount of time but I see this team being very different by the start of the 2014 season.

Development is a very tricky subject because it really depends on the player. Some players lose their offensive edge when getting stuck in a defensive role some have their offensive game disappear vs. higher competition but some will flourish vs. high competition.

I mean it really depends on the player just looking at the Oilers I can bring up so many players that I thought would be farther along in their development and others thats development caught me completely of guard. Look at Smid a player that has played on a very bad oilers team since joining the oilers in the Pronger trade he was used as a scape goat by many oilers fans in the last few years. But he has redeveloped his game and has been arguably our most important defensmen for them this year. His development has really been more of a baptism by fire and really even though he may have been rushed I dont think it ultimately hurt his long term development and you could make arguments that it may have helped.

There is much that can go wrong with a players development to say that one way is best for a player is very difficult to do. Maybe he will get lost in the depth chart and never develop into the player he is capable of.

I also want to add that I dont think the Sedins were ever considered long term as career 2nd liners by the canucks organization. HF has been very much a what have you done for me now board were fans tend to over hype their prospects and underrate other teams. I am not saying that I am right but I think Hodgson has to make some very large steps in his development to become that perennial first line center. But thats my opinion and well I am an Oilers fan so I could be biased.

I think Hodgson is doing just fine in his development... 40+pt pace as a 3rd line center at 21 years old is pretty solid and HE'S the one making the plays and looks solid on the 2nd PP. I don't see how one can say he doesn't or wont be a top line center in the future with what he's showing with limited ice team and line mates, he's impressed. I don't understand how Hodgson needs to show some very large step? he has the potential to get there and has been showing his high skill level.

The way we develop is a lot different than how the Oilers have been. We developed the Twins behind the WCE line and had Linden help them, as well with Kesler he was developing on the 3rd line with Linden helping his development and which we're now doing with Hodgson. Oilers have been throwing their young guns into the fire and it's working great for Hall, RNH and Eberle but it looks like it really hurt Gagner and maybe MPS. I think players developing under top players and learning from them on and off the ice getting to watch them each game and how they practice is a more successful way and I'm glad the Canucks do this which we learnt from the Wings. I understand the Oilers were in a tough spot and had to rush these players and some earned their spot.

Canucks have a pretty solid track record with developing players just take a look at just the forwards: Sedin, Sedin, Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, Hansen and Grabner I do like Hodgson chances. Also AV is a great coach for this and many players have been having career years under his coaching this will benefit Hodgson.
 

Faryn

Registered User
Dec 11, 2009
347
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Calgary AB
I think Hodgson is doing just fine in his development... 40+pt pace as a 3rd line center at 21 years old is pretty solid and HE'S the one making the plays and looks solid on the 2nd PP. I don't see how one can say he doesn't or wont be a top line center in the future with what he's showing with limited ice team and line mates, he's impressed. I don't understand how Hodgson needs to show some very large step? he has the potential to get there and has been showing his high skill level.

The way we develop is a lot different than how the Oilers have been. We developed the Twins behind the WCE line and had Linden help them, as well with Kesler he was developing on the 3rd line with Linden helping his development and which we're now doing with Hodgson. Oilers have been throwing their young guns into the fire and it's working great for Hall, RNH and Eberle but it looks like it really hurt Gagner and maybe MPS. I think players developing under top players and learning from them on and off the ice getting to watch them each game and how they practice is a more successful way and I'm glad the Canucks do this which we learnt from the Wings. I understand the Oilers were in a tough spot and had to rush these players and some earned their spot.

Canucks have a pretty solid track record with developing players just take a look at just the forwards: Sedin, Sedin, Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, Hansen and Grabner I do like Hodgson chances. Also AV is a great coach for this and many players have been having career years under his coaching this will benefit Hodgson.

I never said that he wasnt developing well, I just dont feel like he will become a #1 center. It is kinda funny that you brought Ganger up because he could be used as a great example to what can happen. He broke into the league at 18 was a third line player mostly playing RW on a line with Cogliano and Nilsson (atleast later in the season) and wasnt moved to center untill they felt that he could handle it. Gagner put up 49 points in his rookie season then 41,41, and 42. I mean looking at his points in his rookie season his development looked like it was on track and wasnt hurt at all by putting him in the NHL at 18 (I dont think it really hurt him even though his points have gone down he has made massive improvements in his game and has played on a progressivley worst oilers team each year since). I think Ganger will turn into a decent 2nd line forward similar to Hodgson people right him off way to much and on a side note he is only 6 months older then Hodgson.

All im saying is that it is too early to say he is going to be a first line center and that development is not linear. He is not a first line center now therefore he needs to make big steps in his development to become one. I am not trying to belittle him as a prospect he will be good but there is a lot that can go wrong and well there is a lot that can go right on the flip side he may turn into a star in this league. I hope this clarifies what I am trying to say it seems that you arent quite getting what i am saying.
 

BLAME CANADA*

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I never said that he wasnt developing well, I just dont feel like he will become a #1 center. It is kinda funny that you brought Ganger up because he could be used as a great example to what can happen. He broke into the league at 18 was a third line player mostly playing RW on a line with Cogliano and Nilsson (atleast later in the season) and wasnt moved to center untill they felt that he could handle it. Gagner put up 49 points in his rookie season then 41,41, and 42. I mean looking at his points in his rookie season his development looked like it was on track and wasnt hurt at all by putting him in the NHL at 18 (I dont think it really hurt him even though his points have gone down he has made massive improvements in his game and has played on a progressivley worst oilers team each year since). I think Ganger will turn into a decent 2nd line forward similar to Hodgson people right him off way to much and on a side note he is only 6 months older then Hodgson.

All im saying is that it is too early to say he is going to be a first line center and that development is not linear. He is not a first line center now therefore he needs to make big steps in his development to become one. I am not trying to belittle him as a prospect he will be good but there is a lot that can go wrong and well there is a lot that can go right on the flip side he may turn into a star in this league. I hope this clarifies what I am trying to say it seems that you arent quite getting what i am saying.

I'm not calling Hodgson a 1st line center, I'm saying it's silly to say he can't develop into one with all the skill he has shown and how the Canucks are developing him right. Hodgson not doing too bad for a broke back bust :sarcasm:
 

Nalens Oga

Registered User
Jan 5, 2010
16,780
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Canada
Grachev was far too over hyped by this website IMO.

Thought he looked fine at the beginning of the season. Is gonna get some good AHL time thanks to STL's depth.....I wouldn't judge Grachev till he's around 24 though cos he's a big guy.

Btw, is this thread gonna get bumped every time Duchene/Hodgson do something special? Lock it
 

LickTheEnvelope

Time to Retool... again...
Dec 16, 2008
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haha I don't think he really needs to be brought up but I do remember getting into an argument with one of my canuck loving friends about who was better after the 2009 WJHC and remember saying I wouldn't trade Eberle for Hodgson and I remember him looking at me like I was nuts.

I was in Ottawa for the tournament saw every game hodgson was good but he tended to stack up points in blowouts and really was third best I thought out of the three of Taveres Eberle and Hodgson even though he ended with the most points.

That being said I was surprised at how slow his pro career started didn't put up great numbers in the A last year and thats not to mention that whole debacle he had with Alain Vigneault at training camp the year before (I know he did end up actually having a back problem it just seemed to really be handled badly by both sides) but I think he will turn into a great player never at Duchene's level though.

Duchene will be able to carry a team I think Hodgson will be more of a vital component of one were he does the important things that teams need to win just will never be a consistent first line player more of a good second that can fill in when needed.


I agree with basically all of this.

Hodgson and Eberle also have tremendous leadership potential, IMO.
 

Grub

First Line Troll
Jun 30, 2008
9,690
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B.C
I would take hodgson. He is a captain and you build people like that... It's fine for canucks fan to over-hype him they should be excited to have.

I'm laughing that some TO fans like Ranger Red is bashing him. Hodgson is a complete player, you should see him in interview, class act.

I don't get it what's wrong with canucks fan overhyping hodgson??? You TO fans overhype Schenn alot.

Had a notification that someone necro-liked my post from 2009. Oh man oh man was I wrong :oops:. In my defense the TO fans got it wrong too with Schenn ;).
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,055
23,162
Grachev. NHL career 1G, 3A.

Hodgson.. who is to say what kind of player he could have become, if those back issues didn't derail his career and brain.
 
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