The Hockey News Top-100 List *Updated* (READ ALL BEFORE POSTING!)

[Sens Rule]

i am a lil shocked that dougie gilmour aint there

He is 92 on Nalyd Psycho's list

 

[Bluesfan1981]

Not allowed to add Thompson, even though he totally belongs, and I hate to remove Nighbour, but, can't move him either.

I'm a big Hasek fan, it is my opinion that no one in history could singlehandedly change the course of a single game like he could. Best player outside the elite 9.

I'm a big Lidstrom buff, have him just slighty below Robinson/Kelly/Fetisov. So, I may rank him higher than others.

I just couldn't justify putting Pronger over Shanny.

Belfour, I just don't care for...

I can't see Pronger not belonging, especially after what appears to be a Stanley Cup this season. This guy has been a dominant defenseman in the league for a long time and has proven what a valuable player he is. The Blues were always good with Pronger on the team. Then they trade him and he's the biggest reason they went from being a good team to having the worst record in the league. In his first and only season with the Oilers they go to the Stanley Cup Finals. Then the Oilers trade him and this season don't even make the playoffs. Now it appears like he will win a Stanley Cup in his first season in Anaheim. I'd put Pronger over Shanahan, but if you don't want to do that, then you have some other candidates for removal; guys like Delvecchio, Gilmour, Chabot, Abel, Gainey, Ullman, and Schriner.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

You make some good points, I'd reconcider my stance.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I can't see Pronger not belonging, especially after what appears to be a Stanley Cup this season. This guy has been a dominant defenseman in the league for a long time and has proven what a valuable player he is. The Blues were always good with Pronger on the team. Then they trade him and he's the biggest reason they went from being a good team to having the worst record in the league. In his first and only season with the Oilers they go to the Stanley Cup Finals. Then the Oilers trade him and this season don't even make the playoffs. Now it appears like he will win a Stanley Cup in his first season in Anaheim. I'd put Pronger over Shanahan, but if you don't want to do that, then you have some other candidates for removal; guys like Delvecchio, Gilmour, Chabot, Abel, Gainey, Ullman, and Schriner.

Despite Pronger's dominance, he's only been a post-season all-star three times: one first and two second teams. He had that one huge season where he won the Hart and Norris, but I think you need more than that to get into the Top 100 at this point. At his current pace, he'll be there by the time he retires though, just not yet. Delvecchio had nearly 1300 points in a low-scoring era. When he retired, he was the second leading point-scorer of all time, I believe. Gilmour had over 1400 points and brought a lot to the table beyond scoring. Shanahan could hit 700 goals playing a good chunk of his career in a low-scoring era. I don't think Pronger has a case against any of those three yet. But Chabot, Gainey, Abel, Schriner, and Ullman are definitely up for debate.

 

[Bluesfan1981]

Despite Pronger's dominance, he's only been a post-season all-star three times: one first and two second teams. He had that one huge season where he won the Hart and Norris, but I think you need more than that to get into the Top 100 at this point. At his current pace, he'll be there by the time he retires though, just not yet. Delvecchio had nearly 1300 points in a low-scoring era. When he retired, he was the second leading point-scorer of all time, I believe. Gilmour had over 1400 points and brought a lot to the table beyond scoring. Shanahan could hit 700 goals playing a good chunk of his career in a low-scoring era. I don't think Pronger has a case against any of those three yet. But Chabot, Gainey, Abel, Schriner, and Ullman are definitely up for debate.

You mentioned all-star teams, but Delvecchio made only two in 24 seasons, both second teams. And Gilmour never made an all-star team. As good a player as Gilmour was, and should easily be a Hall of Famer, he didn't have as big an impact as Pronger does. Look at the lifts Pronger has given to each of the teams he's played for, and look how much the Blues and Oilers declined after they traded him. The guy has a monster impact on a game. He's a big dominant defenseman who's on the ice at least half the game.

 

[mouser]

Slightly OT, but how much all-time upside do you think some older active players like Lidstrom and Brodeur still have? At 37 and 35 respectively, they're both still playing among the top handful of guys at their positions.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

You mentioned all-star teams, but Delvecchio made only two in 24 seasons, both second teams. And Gilmour never made an all-star team.

True enough. Though to be fair to Delvecchio, he was competing with Ted Lindsay, Bobby Hull, and Frank Mahovlich for those spots. I guess it depends on how you perceive the list. Are you looking for the 100 greatest players, or 100 greatest careers? Some tend to look more at careers, wheras others might be more focussed on peak value. For peak value alone, Pronger buries Delvecchio, Shanahan, and probably all the others you mentioned. I'd give him a reasonable edge over Gilmour from '89 to '94, though I wouldn't say he buries him. I usually try to strike a balance between peak value and career, though I'm probably slightly biased towards career, which is why I'd still have Pronger outside the Top 100.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Slightly OT, but how much all-time upside do you think some older active players like Lidstrom and Brodeur still have? At 37 and 35 respectively, they're both still playing among the top handful of guys at their positions.

Quite a bit. Lidstrom could reasonably strike at #6 all-time for d-men. Brodeur may have a shot at greatest goalie ever, but I doubt it. He is very close to maing the big 5 the big 6 when it comes to great goalies.

 

[seventieslord]

This is the Hockey News list of the top-100 players who ever played in the National Hockey League. This list was produced around 1997 by a panel of hockey experts, which includes Don Cherry, Milt Dunnell, Stan Fischler, Bob McKenzie, Dick Irvin, Al Arbour, Marcel Pronovost, Scotty Bowman, Frank Selke, Harry Sinden and many mores.

The exercice I would like to do, is trying to update this list.

However, there are a few important rules that would need to be followed:

1- This thread isn’t the place to discuss who of Jean Beliveau and Maurice Richard or Doug Harney and Eddie Shore is the better player. More than 30 experts came up with this list and even though they can be wrong, this list is probably the most exaustive and complete ever created. Hockey isn’t mathematics: it’s subjective. I don’t want this thread to be the battle of comparision between old timers, which was debated to death. We will have enough to do only with the 1990’s and 2000’s players.

2- Players should only get recognition for what they have accomplished in the NHL. Junior years, WHA or the various european leagues should be ruled off. This rules mean that players like Igor Larionov and Viacheslav Fetisov, who only spent little time in the NHL, should be ruled out.

3- Players who havn’t played in the NHL after the 1996-97 season can’t change position. They can move up or down the list only if an active player after the 1996-97 season was raised or lowered.

4- A player who was active after the 1996-97 season can move up or down the list. Longevity and the quality of hockey a player have demonstrate during their career is a major factor that should be taken into consideration. If a player show he can still dominate at the last breath of his career, that shoud count for him (ex: Dominik Hasek). However, if a player who had great sucess isn’t able to be near this standard of quality later in his career, it should count against him (ex: Eric Lindros).

5- If a player can’t be define by the career he had after 1997, his place on the standing shouldn’t change drastically. The argument you will make on why a certain player has move up or down your list should only take consideration the years he played after 1997. For example, if you think Mike Gartner should be in the top-50, you can’t raise him from 89 to 50 just like that (he only played one season after 1997).

Players in bold are the one who were active in the NHL after 1997

The Hockey News Top-100 NHL Players of All-Time

1- Wayne Gretzky
2- Bobby Orr
3- Gordie Howe
4- Mario Lemieux
5- Maurice Richard
6- Doug Harney
7- Jean Béliveau
8- Bobby Hull
9- Terry Sawchuk
10- Eddie Shore
11- Guy Lafleur
12- Mark Messier
13- Jacques Plante
14- Raymond Bourque
15- Howie Morenz
16- Glenn Hall
17- Stan Mikita
18- Phil Esposito
19- Denis Potvin
20- Mike Bossy
21- Ted Lindsay
22- Red Kelly
23- Bobby Clarke
24- Larry Robinson
25- Ken Dryden
26- Frank Mahovlich
27- Milt Schmidt
28- Paul Coffey
29- Henri Richard
30- Bryan Trottier
31- Dickie Moore
32- Newsy Lalonde
33- Syl Apps Sr.
34- Bill Durnan
35- Patrick Roy
36- Charlie Conacher
37- Jaromir Jagr
38- Marcel Dionne
39- Joe Malone
40- Chris Chelios
41- Dit Clapper
42- Bernard Geoffrion
43- Tim Horton
44- Bill Cook
45- Johnny Bucyk
46- George Hainsworth
47- Gilbert Perreault
48- Max Bentley
49- Brad Park
50- Jari Kurri
51- Nels Stewart
52- King Clancy
53- Bill Cowley
54- Eric Lindros
55- Busher Jackson
56- Peter Stastny
57- Ted Kennedy
58- Andy Bathgate
59- Pierre Pilote
60- Turk Broda
61- Frank Boucher
62- Cy Dennedy
63- Bernard Parent
64- Brett Hull
65- Aurel Joliat
66- Toe Blake
67- Frank Brismek
68- Elmer Lach
69- Dave Keon
70- Grant Fuhr
71- Brian Leetch
72- Earl Seibert
73- Doug Bentley
74- Borje Salming
75- George Vezina
76- Chuck Gardiner
77- Clint Benedict
78- Steve Yzerman
79- Tony Esposito
80- Billy Smith
81- Serge Savard
82- Alex Delvecchio
83- Cecil Dye
84- Lorne Chabot
85- Sid Abel
86- Bob Gainey
87- Johnny Bower
88- Sprague Cleghorn
89- Mark Gartner
90- Norm Ullman
91- Sweeney Schriner
92- Joe Primeau
93- Darryl Sittler
94- Joe Sakic
95- Dominik Hasek
96- Walter Pratt
97- Jack Stewart
98- Yvan Cournoyer
99- Bill Gadsby
100- Frank Nighbor

I have made a list of players that should get consideration to move up in the top-100. Most of these players get recognition in the All-Time draft top-100 (and that his including players like Kharlamov, Fetisov and Tretiak, that are ruled out in here).

Ed Belfour
Rob Blake
Martin Brodeur
Pavel Bure
Sergei Fedorov
Adam Foote
Peter Forsberg
Ron Francis
Doug Gilmour
Niklas Lidstrom
Al MacInnis
Larry Murphy
Scott Niedermayer
Chris Pronger
Luc Robitaille
Brendan Shanahan
Scott Stevens
Mats Sundin

Have fun! (BTW, my list will come soon)

Good question.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Bourque, and Coffey stay put.

Roy goes up to 8th all-time as he has to at least pass Sawchuk as best goalie ever.

Put Jagr between Mikita and Esposito.

Chelios stays put.

Lindros drops right off the list.

Put Hull up 5 spots, right behind Bathgate.

Fuhr stays put.

Leetch can stay put, he was probably a tad overrated to be that high to begin with, and his minor accomplishments and longevity can rightfully place him there now.

Yzerman needs a major jump. I'd put him between Clarke and Robinson.

Gartner stays put.

Sakic, too, needs a major jump. Between Dionne and Malone looks about right.

Hasek is now the 2nd most accomplished goalie of all-time so he needs to go right after Bobby Hull and before Terry Sawchuk.

No to Belfour, Blake, Bure, Fedorov, Foote, Forsberg, Gilmour, MacInnis, Murphy, Pronger, Robitaille, Shanahan.

Leaving Brodeur, Francis, Lidstrom, Niedermayer, Stevens, Sundin.

Brodeur, as the 8th best goalie of all-time, can go between Clapper and Geoffrion.

Francis is overrated by his high career points total but has a place on this list... on second thought, no he doesn't, he's not as good as Sittler at 93rd, so if I put him in at 95th, he'd get bumped off anyway.

Lidstrom is a top-6 defenseman on an all-time level now. Put him between Bossy and Lindsay.

Niedermayer has 3 more cups, a norris and a smythe since this was made. Put him between Boucher and Denneny.

Stevens is at least as good as Pratt; put him between Schriner and Primeau.

Sundin is Sittler's equal - put him right below him.

Looks like that makes Sundin #100 - Lindros, Pratt, Stewart, Cournoyer, Gadsby and Nighbour fall off.

 

[seventieslord]

i am a lil shocked that dougie gilmour aint there

...of course you are, Leaf Lander!

 

[Pnut]

Stan on the Fishsticks Jersey Fischler has no business in doing this list in 1997 Eric Lindros better than Brett Hull back even in 97, no way, this seems like something Fischler would say....and the rest of them would say ok what ever stan...........other than that EagleBelfour got it right when he said look at these guys to add in now, i agree with all of his addons except Federov, he had a good season or two, but he was on great teams with other great linemates, other than that right on mr. EagleBelfour

 

[seventieslord]

Stan on the Fishsticks Jersey Fischler has no business in doing this list in 1997 Eric Lindros better than Brett Hull back even in 97, no way, this seems like something Fischler would say....and the rest of them would say ok what ever stan...........other than that EagleBelfour got it right when he said look at these guys to add in now, i agree with all of his addons except Federov, he had a good season or two, but he was on great teams with other great linemates, other than that right on mr. EagleBelfour

Fedorov deserves it more than most of them - he has a hart, 3 cups, and 2 selkes. Anyways, you can't add all of them on that list. There's just no room. They were meant as possible additions, EagleBelfour was just trying to list all players who could conceivably be added.

 

[Crosbyfan]

True enough. Though to be fair to Delvecchio, he was competing with Ted Lindsay, Bobby Hull, and Frank Mahovlich for those spots. I guess it depends on how you perceive the list. Are you looking for the 100 greatest players, or 100 greatest careers? Some tend to look more at careers, wheras others might be more focussed on peak value. For peak value alone, Pronger buries Delvecchio, Shanahan, and probably all the others you mentioned. I'd give him a reasonable edge over Gilmour from '89 to '94, though I wouldn't say he buries him. I usually try to strike a balance between peak value and career, though I'm probably slightly biased towards career, which is why I'd still have Pronger outside the Top 100.

He was a center, which made it even harder. Great player but he played a lot with Gordie.

 

[Marty30]

No Martin Brodeur? or Patrick Roy?

 

[Kyle McMahon]

He was a center, which made it even harder. Great player but he played a lot with Gordie.

He actually played both center and left wing (one of his two 2nd team all-star selections is at C, the other LW). Did he play center predominantly?

 

[Crosbyfan]

He actually played both center and left wing (one of his two 2nd team all-star selections is at C, the other LW). Did he play center predominantly?

I thought so.

 

[Huis Clos*]

Eric Lindros and Jaromir Jagr over Sakic?

 

[pappyline]

I thought so.

I remember Delvecchio as predominantly a centre who played some left wing.

 

[GSK*]

No Denis Savard ?

 

[GSK*]

Denis Savard: 5"10 180lbs - Forward

Drafted #3 overall in 1980.

NHL Totals:

Games: 1196
Goals: 473
Assists: 865
Points: 1338

NHL Playoffs Totals:

Games: 169
Goals: 66
Assists: 109
Points: 175


Career Highs:

Goals: 47, 44, 40, 38, 37, 35, 32, 28 (3 times)
Assists: 87 (2 times), 86, 69, 67, 59, 57, 53, 50 and 47 (2 times)
Points: 131, 121, 119, 116, 105, 94, 90 (70GP), 82 (58GP), 80(60GP)

Team First Scorer:

1981-82 (119), 82-83 (121), 83-84 (94), 84-85 (105), 85-86(116), 86-87 (90 in 70GP), 87-88 (131).

7 times first scorer of his team.

Team Second Scorer:

1980-81 (75pts behind Tom Lysiak), 88-89 (82pts in 58GP, 115pts on 82games, finish behind Larmer who had 82pts), 89-90 (80pts in 60games 109 on 82games, finish second behind Larmer who has 90), 91-92 (70pts behind Muller with 77)

4 times second scorer and 2 times amazing season with the best PPG of his team.

Top 10 in the NHL: Behind in order.

1981-82: 6th behind (Wayne Gretzky, Mike Bossy, Peter Stastny, Dennis Maruk and Bryan Trottier)

1982-83: 3rd behind (Wayne Gretzky and Peter Stastny)

1984-85: 8th behind (Wayne Gretzky, Jari Kurri, Dale Hawerchuk, Marcel Dionne, Paul Coffey, Mike Bossy and John Ogrodnick.)

1985-86: 7th behind (Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Paul Coffey, Jari Kurri, Mike Bossy and Peter Stastny)

1987-88: 3rd behind (Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux)

Both in 1986-87, 1988-89 and 89-90 with 90pts in 70GP, 82pts in 58GP and 80pts in 60GP he would have been around 5th and 6th in the scoring each year on a 82 games season.

Stanley Cup:

1992-93



I'm not saying that he is better than most of the people but I think he deserve a spot near of #100.

 

[Malice430]

i have 2 problems with this list.
1. why the hell is dionne so low. just because he never won a cup shouldnt matter. when this list came out he was 3rd overall in NHL history in goals, assists, and points. even playing on crappy Kings teams of the 80s he was able to put up 100+ point seasons.

2. NO CAM NEELY? thats just a shame.

 

[seventieslord]

Denis Savard: 5"10 180lbs - Forward

Drafted #3 overall in 1980.

NHL Totals:

Games: 1196
Goals: 473
Assists: 865
Points: 1338

NHL Playoffs Totals:

Games: 169
Goals: 66
Assists: 109
Points: 175


Career Highs:

Goals: 47, 44, 40, 38, 37, 35, 32, 28 (3 times)
Assists: 87 (2 times), 86, 69, 67, 59, 57, 53, 50 and 47 (2 times)
Points: 131, 121, 119, 116, 105, 94, 90 (70GP), 82 (58GP), 80(60GP)

Team First Scorer:

1981-82 (119), 82-83 (121), 83-84 (94), 84-85 (105), 85-86(116), 86-87 (90 in 70GP), 87-88 (131).

7 times first scorer of his team.

Team Second Scorer:

1980-81 (75pts behind Tom Lysiak), 88-89 (82pts in 58GP, 115pts on 82games, finish behind Larmer who had 82pts), 89-90 (80pts in 60games 109 on 82games, finish second behind Larmer who has 90), 91-92 (70pts behind Muller with 77)

4 times second scorer and 2 times amazing season with the best PPG of his team.

Top 10 in the NHL: Behind in order.

1981-82: 6th behind (Wayne Gretzky, Mike Bossy, Peter Stastny, Dennis Maruk and Bryan Trottier)

1982-83: 3rd behind (Wayne Gretzky and Peter Stastny)

1984-85: 8th behind (Wayne Gretzky, Jari Kurri, Dale Hawerchuk, Marcel Dionne, Paul Coffey, Mike Bossy and John Ogrodnick.)

1985-86: 7th behind (Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Paul Coffey, Jari Kurri, Mike Bossy and Peter Stastny)

1987-88: 3rd behind (Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux)

Both in 1986-87, 1988-89 and 89-90 with 90pts in 70GP, 82pts in 58GP and 80pts in 60GP he would have been around 5th and 6th in the scoring each year on a 82 games season.

Stanley Cup:

1992-93



I'm not saying that he is better than most of the people but I think he deserve a spot near of #100.

You make a good case. He's definitely not a Stastny, but I am starting to think he's at least better than Sundin and Gartner, who are the other two comparables there. Maybe he belongs right around Cleghorn.

 

[nik jr]

Stan on the Fishsticks Jersey Fischler has no business in doing this list in 1997 Eric Lindros better than Brett Hull back even in 97, no way, this seems like something Fischler would say....and the rest of them would say ok what ever stan...........other than that EagleBelfour got it right when he said look at these guys to add in now, i agree with all of his addons except Federov, he had a good season or two, but he was on great teams with other great linemates, other than that right on mr. EagleBelfour

fedOrov won a hart, pearson, 2 selkes (and was selke runner-up in 92 getting more 1st place votes than carbonneau). and imo should have won smythe in 97.

over point/game in playoffs and is 1 of only 3 players with 4 consecutive 20 point playoffs (i'm sure you know who the other 2 are).

 

[seventieslord]

fedOrov won a hart, pearson, 2 selkes (and was selke runner-up in 92 getting more 1st place votes than carbonneau). and imo should have won smythe in 97.

over point/game in playoffs and is 1 of only 3 players with 4 consecutive 20 point playoffs (i'm sure you know who the other 2 are).

one's gretzky..... i can't figure out who the other is. it's not Lemieux, Messier, Coffey, Kurri, Sakic, Forsberg, or Yzerman.

 

[seventieslord]

fedOrov won a hart, pearson, 2 selkes (and was selke runner-up in 92 getting more 1st place votes than carbonneau). and imo should have won smythe in 97.

over point/game in playoffs and is 1 of only 3 players with 4 consecutive 20 point playoffs (i'm sure you know who the other 2 are).

Then I got to thinking..... hmmmm... four straight.

And then it dawned on me... Bryan Trottier.