GDT: The Hero We Need: Your New Jersey Devils vs. Florida Panthers, 12 PM, MSG

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JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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We can implement eye test too though and say Nico in general looks better. Looks more confident, is more consistent with his effort.
But he had about 20 games with our best player before that confidence showed itself. Or least manifested into production... nobody really cared when he was getting pushed off pucks easily we accepted the growing process.


Again when did Zacha ever get an opportunity remotely close to Hischier's first 20 games....it never happened.
 

devilsblood

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But he had about 20 games with our best player before that confidence showed itself.

Again when did Zacha ever get an opportunity remotely close to Hischier's first 20 games....it never happened.
Nico was our top point producer in the preseason last year. He was also a #1 pick. He also had much better junior #'s then Zacha.

I also think that Nico looked fine early last year, even if the points were not piling up.

I won't argue that Nico didn't have a better oppurtunity, he certainly did, but I think he did more to earn it, I think he did more to keep himself in that spot.

And Nico was a better prospect then Zacha from the time each was drafted, so it's a comparison we should not expect Zacha to go toe to toe in.
 

Shakir ONeal

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Silver lining: we’re able to sign Zacha to a cheap next contract and his production thereafter makes it look like a steal ;)
 

JimEIV

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Nico was our top point producer in the preseason last year. He was also a #1 pick. He also had much better junior #'s then Zacha.

I also think that Nico looked fine early last year, even if the points were not piling up.

I won't argue that Nico didn't have a better oppurtunity, he certainly did, but I think he did more to earn it, I think he did more to keep himself in that spot.

And Nico was a better prospect then Zacha from the time each was drafted, so it's a comparison we should not expect Zacha to go toe to toe in.
No way am I letting you off the hook on the bolded part...

Zacha has looked fine too while the points weren't piling up and he was NEVER given the same consideration. not for even half the time Nico was.

There in is the problem with how he was handled.
 

Triumph

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What did he play parts of 3 games with Hall as a line?

This is all public information. Pavel Zacha has played 262 5 on 5 minutes with Taylor Hall in his career - that's around 18 games worth of even strength time.
 

Triumph

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Do you see PZ scoring 17 goals this or next season?

TZ also had 42 points his rookie season.

Zacha got on the PP this past game, but the first 7 games he wasn't used there. So no, if he's not put on the PP he is not likely to score 17 goals. Zajac had 11 ES goals in his rookie season - I think Zacha could do that this year, yes, absolutely.
 

MadDevil

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Silver lining: we’re able to sign Zacha to a cheap next contract and his production thereafter makes it look like a steal ;)

At worst, I think he'll still be a good third line/PK guy, which is why I can't rip his overall game too much. I've just lowered my expectations of his offensive game.
 

Triumph

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Over 3 years.

Over 2+ years. It's still a lot of time. They produced well together. But it's not Hynes's job to get Pavel Zacha producing - it's his job to win games. Hischier and Hall is a lethal combination.
 

JimEIV

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Over 2+ years. It's still a lot of time. They produced well together. But it's not Hynes's job to get Pavel Zacha producing - it's his job to win games. Hischier and Hall is a lethal combination.
It is simply not a lot of time for 19/20 year old trying to break into the league. Roughly 8 games a year with good players then pull the plug on 19 or 20 year old. It is pure negligence on the coaching staff's part
ESPECIALLY in year 1 when Zajac was Hall's steady center most of the year and the team was going nowhere on its way to the #1 overall pick....THAT should've been Zacha's time to be groomed and they blew the opportunity.
 

AfroThunder396

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Zacha started the first game last season as #1C with Hall and Palmieri. In fact, he lead our forwards in icetime that game, getting a minute and a half more than Hall did (Colorado Avalanche at New Jersey Devils Box Score — October 7, 2017 | Hockey-Reference.com) Nico started with Johansson and Stafford - https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/devils-vs-avalanche-season-home-opener-2-00pm-msg.2395087/).

As for Nico's "slow" start last year, he had 7 points in his first 8 games and 15 points in his first 19 games? Unless you're talking specifically about the first 5 games of the season, in which Hischier had 2 points in 5 games. In which case, Zacha also had 2 points in 5 games playing with Hallmieri soooooo I'm unclear as to what the point is here.

I've been one of Zacha's biggest supporters but this revisionist history is just flat out factually incorrect. Zacha was *given* the #1C spot out of camp in 2017 and within two weeks he lost it to an 18 year old who had never played a professional hockey game, plain and simple.

If you're suggesting that a team just let this 20 year old flounder around the most important position on the team for a quarter of the season just to be fair to him, that's just unreasonable. Zacha had his shot and blew it, so someone in came in and did his job for him.

The problem with Zacha is that in his D+2 season he had nothing to learn in juniors but was clearly not ready for the NHL. The coaching kept him up and staff juggled him around. They never gave him a concrete role or identity, something he still hasn't found.
 

JimEIV

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Zacha got on the PP this past game, but the first 7 games he wasn't used there. So no, if he's not put on the PP he is not likely to score 17 goals. Zajac had 11 ES goals in his rookie season - I think Zacha could do that this year, yes, absolutely.
Playing mostly with Elias and Langenbrunner...if memory serves me right.
 

BahlDeep

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It is simply not a lot of time for 19/20 year old trying to break into the league. Roughly 8 games a year with good players then pull the plug on 19 or 20 year old. It is pure negligence on the coaching staff's part
ESPECIALLY in year 1 when Zajac was Hall's steady center most of the year and the team was going nowhere on its way to the #1 overall pick....THAT should've been Zacha's time to be groomed and they blew the opportunity.

I totally agree with Jim.

There was absolutely no reason for Zacha to not play with Hall 2-3 years ago. Putting Zajac with Hall was the epitome of stupidness.

I think Hynes is a good coach in his own way, but there's decisions that still leave me dumbfounded.
 

Triumph

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It is simply not a lot of time for 19/20 year old trying to break into the league. Roughly 8 games a year with good players then pull the plug on 19 or 20 year. It is pure negligence on the coaching staff's part
ESPECIALLY in year 1 when Zajac was Hall steady center most of the year and the team was going nowhere on its way to the #1 overall pick....THAT should've been Zacha's time to be groomed and they blew the opportunity.

Again, it is not the coaching staff's job to give prime ice time to a player clearly not ready for it. Zacha was not a good player in Year 1 or anything close. He was a fringe NHLer who got screwed by the NHL-CHL rule. They tried him with Hall, it worked for a few games but then they had a horrific game and then that was mostly it. He was 19.

All this stuff was deleted yesterday so I will include the fact that I thought Zacha looked good on the power play yesterday. I suspect they don't want to overtax him with responsibility and that's why he's not there normally.
 

BahlDeep

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This...so much this. And this is why I was okay with them keeping Ty Smith down.

It's not so much this. Hynes treated Zacha like we had a cup contending team. He did not let Zacha go through the growing pains. He had a short leash, and I still think he's on a short leash right now.

While Zacha deserves his own criticism for not producing offensively, Wood hasn't done crap this year, so is MJ, his 2 line mates for most of this current season, and look who's getting blamed.
 

NJDevs26

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It's not so much this. Hynes treated Zacha like we had a cup contending team. He did not let Zacha go through the growing pains. He had a short leash, and I still think he's on a short leash right now.

While Zacha deserves his own criticism for not producing offensively, Wood hasn't done crap this year, so is MJ, his 2 line mates for most of this current season.

Being a rebuilding team does not mean you have to give kids minutes they can't handle for the sake of 'well it doesn't matter anyway'...it does matter to the player's development. Arguably even being IN the NHL was too much too soon for Zacha, let alone giving him first-line time on top of it. Even more icetime isn't always the best thing, sometimes slow and steady is the best way to teach.

Anyway looks like we're done talking about the actual game.
 

Devil X

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The Devils did not sit on that lead on Sat. The Panthers were a TOTALLY different team in the 3rd. It wasnt even a question. They were pressuring our puck carriers A LOT more. They were fore checking harder, they were taking a lot more chances with their Dman to maintain zone control. It was a totally different team then the first 2 periods. It was obvious to me sitting in the stands, Im not sure how it wasnt as obvious to others.
 
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