The Great John Hayden Debate (& other ex-Hawks): Volume 6

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Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
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Yandle is 33 yr old who is terrible in his own end

What caliber of defender do you guys actually think Yandle is?

He is not a guy who should be on top pairing he should be at best a #4 and PP QB
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
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Chicagoland
Panarin looking good with Rangers

He is going to help propel them to playoffs sooner then people think

I have them fighting for spot this year

Rangers GM did masterful job of accelerating rebuild while being able to stock farm
 
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Marotte Marauder

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Aug 10, 2008
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And doesn't he need time for his players to adjust to his system? ;)

Haha but in all seriousness, it takes time to develop chemistry and instincts in systems

While some, read 5-5, systems can get a bit complicated, the PP and PK are not. Players have probably run all systems by the time they make NHL, they know the systems.

I will go out on a limb and say it is the failure of a coach to communicate what exactly he is looking for. Additionally it is then up to the coach to demand accountability.

We see both shortcomings from coaches all the time. Many think they can reinvent the game instead of doing the proven methods to perfection.
 
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Hawkaholic

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Dec 19, 2006
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Panthers beat the Lightning 4-3. 2/3 on the pp.

Yandle played 13:54. It appears he is very much already in Q's doghouse.
Yandle did not look good last night. His advanced stats were also bad, IIRC.

He is terrible defensively, always has been.
 

RayP

Tf
Jan 12, 2011
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Yandle is 33 yr old who is terrible in his own end

What caliber of defender do you guys actually think Yandle is?

He is not a guy who should be on top pairing he should be at best a #4 and PP QB

What caliber of defenders do you think the rest of that blue line is outside of Ekblad?

At least Yandle can generate offense.
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
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Yandle did not look good last night. His advanced stats were also bad, IIRC.

He is terrible defensively, always has been.

He was bad for sure. Him being in Q’s doghouse does not mean it is a bad move by Q. Sometimes players deserve it.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
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What caliber of defenders do you think the rest of that blue line is outside of Ekblad?

At least Yandle can generate offense.
Matheson looked pretty good from what I saw, as did Stralman. Yandle can produce offense, but you dont want him out there as much, defending the lead.
 

RayP

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Matheson looked pretty good from what I saw, as did Stralman. Yandle can produce offense, but you dont want him out there as much, defending the lead.

Definitely not. But 13 minutes still seems awfully low. Especially if you’re going to burn out your top pairing playing them 25+ minutes regularly starting in October.

I’ll be curious to see if it was just a message early on or if this continues.
 

Hawkaholic

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25mins is average for top Dmen. Some games they'll get less, some games they'll get more. Florida was up 4-1 and TB was coming on hard in the third. Q had to play his big guys to keep the lead.
 

RayP

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25mins is average for top Dmen. Some games they'll get less, some games they'll get more. Florida was up 4-1 and TB was coming on hard in the third. Q had to play his big guys to keep the lead.

7 defenseman in the entire league averaged 25 minutes or more last year.
 

RayP

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So top Dmen. Ekblad can handle it. It's an average, hell get less some nights, more others.

He's never averaged even 24 a night over a season.

A jump from to 25+ is a good jump and one that could easily have him burnt out come playoff time when time when it matters the most.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
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He's never averaged even 24 a night over a season.

A jump from to 25+ is a good jump and one that could easily have him burnt out come playoff time when time when it matters the most.
He had 23:39 last year, 25mins isn't much more than that. You could argue he didn't play enough in the past.

He's young, used to the grind by now and can be a top guy in the league. Lean on him, they have to get to the playoffs.
 

DisgruntledHawkFan

Blackhawk Down
Jun 19, 2004
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He had 23:39 last year, 25mins isn't much more than that. You could argue he didn't play enough in the past.

He's young, used to the grind by now and can be a top guy in the league. Lean on him, they have to get to the playoffs.
Ekblad isn’t a top thirty defenseman in hockey, much less a top seven.
 

RayP

Tf
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He had 23:39 last year, 25mins isn't much more than that. You could argue he didn't play enough in the past.

He's young, used to the grind by now and can be a top guy in the league. Lean on him, they have to get to the playoffs.

That's a huge jump in play over the course of an entire season.

Also, the amount of defenseman averaging even 24-25 minutes of ice time per game is not a huge number.
 

RayP

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19 players averaged 24 or more minutes of ice time last year, and 3 of them didn't even play 60 games.

The year before that 21 players averaged 24 or more minutes of ice time.

So to say "top dmen can handle 25 minutes nightly" is straight up wrong.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
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Ekblad isn’t a top thirty defenseman in hockey, much less a top seven.
When did I say he was a top seven Dman? Look at who played 24+ mins (Ristolainen/Povorov for example).

Ekblad is a damn good Dman, and he can play 25mins a night if need be. He played well last year with 23:39, jumping up to 25mins really isn't that big of a deal for a Dman already palying that much.
 

Hawkaholic

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19 players averaged 24 or more minutes of ice time last year, and 3 of them didn't even play 60 games.

The year before that 21 players averaged 24 or more minutes of ice time.

So to say "top dmen can handle 25 minutes nightly" is straight up wrong.
20 + Dmen a year average over 24mins a night, that should tell you right there that they can handle it.
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
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Odd how this conversation started from Q simply sitting a horrendous defender when his team was trying to protect lead while that defender was playing awful to begin with

Q did what any coach would do and is somehow vilified for it
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
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Odd how this conversation started from Q simply sitting a horrendous defender when his team was trying to protect lead while that defender was playing awful to begin with

Q did what any coach would do and is somehow vilified for it

It was you and I talking about it right? I never vilified Q for sitting him. Yandle drives play BUT he is weak in his own end (not all the time but he has his warts).

I just simply stated Yandle is already in Q's doghouse.
 

Pez68

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
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25mins is average for top Dmen. Some games they'll get less, some games they'll get more. Florida was up 4-1 and TB was coming on hard in the third. Q had to play his big guys to keep the lead.

It's the first week of the season. This was a big problem with Q when he was here, as well. He doesn't trust players enough to put them out there. He's lucky Keith was a freak of nature, and could play 30 minutes a night.

25 minutes a night is average for the top 10 D in the NHL, maybe. Outside of that, no, it's not.
 

AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
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Yandle is not a terrible defender..his advanced stats and the eye test over the years say he isn't close to terrible..he will get more O zone starts because he can drive the play, but he has been relied on more heavily in the dzone in Florida than his years prior...I am not saying he is a great defender, but LOL at him being terrible..
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
Yandle is not a terrible defender..his advanced stats and the eye test over the years say he isn't close to terrible..he will get more O zone starts because he can drive the play, but he has been relied on more heavily in the dzone in Florida than his years prior...I am not saying he is a great defender, but LOL at him being terrible..

He is not terrible but he is average while being turnover prone. That being said he can really drive play.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
31,475
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London, Ont.
It's the first week of the season. This was a big problem with Q when he was here, as well. He doesn't trust players enough to put them out there. He's lucky Keith was a freak of nature, and could play 30 minutes a night.

25 minutes a night is average for the top 10 D in the NHL, maybe. Outside of that, no, it's not.
Ristolainen and Povorov, are not top Dmen in the league. Dmen can handle it, it's really not that big of a deal.

For those of you blasting Q for playing a really good Dman like Ekblad 25mins, where are you critizing JC for playing Gustafsson 26mins in our first game?

Funny how that works.

Not only that, what is another 3 shifts in a game for Ekblad? It's nothing, just like how you argued Kane getting 3 more shifts a game wasn't a big deal. You don't see the hypocrisy here?
 

AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
36,959
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Chicago Manitoba
He is not terrible but he is average while being turnover prone. That being said he can really drive play.
exactly..there is a big difference between average and terrible. Yandle will have his share of turnovers, man makes a lot of passes overall.. but terrible is Manning...terrible is Seabrook..terrible is not Yandle..Yandle is a positive Corsi/Fenwick player despite the o zone starts and turnovers..Seabrook is now getting more o zone starts the past 4-5 years and still a minus player..Yandle this year so far has been bad, but he has not been terrible prior to this year so that narrative is bullshit..
 
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