Player Discussion The Future of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 2: Has His Recent Concussion Complicated Things More?

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

This is absolutely not the case and Tippett believes in counters like a person in Crowsnest pass believes in wind..

Tippett LOVES counters. Fortunately we'll be seeing more of that I suspect with Holloway.

The object of hockey is to outscore the opponent and its a common fallacy that Tippett preaches defensive hockey in all cases. He's dispelled this several times himself. Indeed when he was hired his first thing was to dispell his defensive record saying that in Arizona that style was dictated. he said a team with McDrai on it would be used much differently. He's also a big believer in D jumping, even on pk. The players are green lit. Nurse has by miles the most goals he's ever scored. Barrie having a stupendous season. Tippett is not holding anybody back from scoring and producing. Not the case at all.

You're taking a risk every time you go for a SHG because there's a good chance if you miss there's an odd man rush going the other way. I'm not saying Tippett is holding anyone back, I'm saying he's telling the players to be smart with the puck when shorthanded and that has contributed to an air tight PK. The Oilers didn't really generate anything shorthanded yesterday against Vancouver but on the flipside, the Canucks generated nothing with 5 power plays.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

What, are you seriously taking credit for being right when you're not?

You probably still think I was comparing RNH & Letestu.

Also, nothing at all arrogant about your post. Nothing.

Let's look at some number shall we:

2020-21 Edmonton Oilers PP stats:
27% Rank #1
25.8% Net(PP goals for - goals against) Rank #1
I'd call this elite.

2016-17 Edmonton Oilers PP stats:
22.9% Rank #4
20.9% Net Rank #4
Pretty good but probably not elite.

Why don't we look at the PP numbers before & after Letestu was put on PP1 at the end of November 2016?

Before Nov 30th of the 2016-17 season:
16% Rank #18
12% Net Rank #23

This seems pretty bad. Let's see what happened after they plugged in some nobody.

After Nov 30th of the 2016-17 season:
25.9% Rank #1
24.7% Net Rank #1

I'm guessing the cutoff for elite must be 26% for the PP & 25% for the Net.

I also want to point out I'm not saying the uptick in PP stats was because of Mark Letestu's presence because it surely was not. I'm just pointing out that he was on a half-decent PP1 but not elite, so I will apologize for trying to claim it was elite since it fell just short of those tried & true numbers, that we all accept, to be elite.

Turnabout is fair play.

He had a hot stretch on that PP and then it was ridden into the dirt. Why are you conveniently leaving out last seasons #'s? That was an absolutely elite PP and what I was referring to being an elite PP, 29.5%. So you can compare the hot stretch that we had with Letestu as the one time option with this season if you want, but the fact remains that RNH has been a crucial member of a PP that has been better than that one 2 seasons in a row. Letestu had 12 and 14 PP points in his 2 seasons where he was featured on our PP, Nuge has 24 and 19 in 44 games this season.

The difference? They started to take away the onetime option and Letestu fell back to Earth. RNH has been a successful PP player from the start of his career until now. Again his ES contribution this season has been poor, no doubt about it, but the bottom line is that he is a very good PP player. Nuge was 21st in PP points last season, 16th this season and 11th over the last 2 seasons combined. Sounds like a very easily replaceable guy on the PP.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You're taking a risk every time you go for a SHG because there's a good chance if you miss there's an odd man rush going the other way. I'm not saying Tippett is holding anyone back, I'm saying he's telling the players to be smart with the puck when shorthanded and that has contributed to an air tight PK. The Oilers didn't really generate anything shorthanded yesterday against Vancouver but on the flipside, the Canucks generated nothing with 5 power plays.

Just yesterday two players on the pk broke on a scoring chance. They got back, no problem, most these guys are good skaters. Just saying that there is no holding back. The Oilers play an aggressive jump game. They should have more pk goals than they do.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Just yesterday two players on the pk broke on a scoring chance. They got back, no problem, most these guys are good skaters. Just saying that there is no holding back. The Oilers play an aggressive jump game. They should have more pk goals than they do.

Maybe when speedsters like McLeod and Holloway come in and take a regular PK shift.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Turnabout is fair play.

He had a hot stretch on that PP and then it was ridden into the dirt. Why are you conveniently leaving out last seasons #'s? That was an absolutely elite PP and what I was referring to being an elite PP, 29.5%. So you can compare the hot stretch that we had with Letestu as the one time option with this season if you want, but the fact remains that RNH has been a crucial member of a PP that has been better than that one 2 seasons in a row. Letestu had 12 and 14 PP points in his 2 seasons where he was featured on our PP, Nuge has 24 and 19 in 44 games this season.

The difference? They started to take away the onetime option and Letestu fell back to Earth. RNH has been a successful PP player from the start of his career until now. Again his ES contribution this season has been poor, no doubt about it, but the bottom line is that he is a very good PP player. Nuge was 21st in PP points last season, 16th this season and 11th over the last 2 seasons combined. Sounds like a very easily replaceable guy on the PP.

Wow, you still think my original response to you was meant to compare these 2 players.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Mark Letestu was also a critical part of an elite PP.
Pretty sure the PP isn't/wasn't elite because of RNH/Letestu is all I'm saying. I have a feeling it might be for some other reasons.

Wow, you still think my original response to you was meant to compare these 2 players.

There is your original post. Obviously Connor and Leon are the main 2 reasons that our PP is elite, name me one person that says otherwise? However what I am saying is that RNH is not an easy replacement on the PP and is a big part of it. He knows Connor's and Leon's tendencies, moves the puck quickly and crisply and has a very good wrist shot to score on the PP when teams are left scrambling due to Connor and Leon making them look foolish. Our PP would likely be very good without RNH but there is no guarantee that it would be elite. If there was then the Sid/Gino Penguins and even the Leafs this season would have a lot better PP than they have. He is not a replacement level player on the PP, he is not a one trick pony like a Chiasson or a Letestu, he is a proven high end PP contributor.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Maybe when speedsters like McLeod and Holloway come in and take a regular PK shift.

I miss Peca and Pisani I guess. Being that I got into the Kings for some years though I always loved Counter hockey. Of course I love Tippett.

Ronnie Low used to have the Oilers playing a nice counter game too.

Hockey is so much a break game. Oilers hockey, historically, even moreso.

I think we'll be seeing some nice added wrinkles in playoffs. More Bouchard for one.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I miss Peca and Pisani I guess. Being that I got into the Kings for some years though I always loved Counter hockey. Of course I love Tippett.

Ronnie Low used to have the Oilers playing a nice counter game too.

Hockey is so much a break game. Oilers hockey, historically, even moreso.

I think we'll be seeing some nice added wrinkles in playoffs. More Bouchard for one.

If Bouchard ever becomes a regular PKer for us I could see him breaking some guys out in stride on the PK as well. I have a feeling that Nurse-Bouchard is going to become an elite pairing. I am so happy that Nurse has proven me wrong, what a stud of a player he has turned into.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If Bouchard ever becomes a regular PKer for us I could see him breaking some guys out in stride on the PK as well. I have a feeling that Nurse-Bouchard is going to become an elite pairing. I am so happy that Nurse has proven me wrong, what a stud of a player he has turned into.

Nurse was always an alpha to me, and I knew he would find a way. I was always saying he was our best D. Took me a long while to come around to Larsson, and more this season, in which he's been a boss. I think this is more of why he was obtained.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Nurse was always an alpha to me, and I knew he would find a way. I was always saying he was our best D. Took me a long while to come around to Larsson, and more this season, in which he's been a boss. I think this is more of why he was obtained.

I really liked Nurse early on in his career but then I felt that parts of his game stalled and I questioned his upside. He is now much more composed with the puck, isn't getting caught out of position as much as he used to and is just bossing it out there. I kind of always hoped that he could add a Sheldon Souray element to his game in terms of a bomb from the point. While his shot isn't at that level it is still damn good as evidenced by his gaudy goal totals. It's a damn shame that there's no skill comp this season because I'd bet that he's probably added a little to his shot this season.

As for Lars, he seems to be healthy and finally have his mind in the right place again. You win with guys like him and Nurse beating on the opposition night in and night out. I really liked him in his first season here but then injuries and the loss of his father hit him really hard. Once you forget about his draft pedigree, don't expect him to be an offensive defenseman and the cost to obtain him, his worth comes out and you can enjoy the player that he is for us right now.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I really liked Nurse early on in his career but then I felt that parts of his game stalled and I questioned his upside. He is now much more composed with the puck, isn't getting caught out of position as much as he used to and is just bossing it out there. I kind of always hoped that he could add a Sheldon Souray element to his game in terms of a bomb from the point. While his shot isn't at that level it is still damn good as evidenced by his gaudy goal totals. It's a damn shame that there's no skill comp this season because I'd bet that he's probably added a little to his shot this season.

Nurse has cut out most of the downside elements of his game, bad decisions, passes, so I was not happy with him making that cross ice pass in a 2-0 game we had control of. I thought that was not great for Smith who was pitching a shutout to that point. But turned out well as it served to open up the game and Connor got his 100pts and Leon 500.

When I grew up with the Oilers they had a Finn on the point, Risto Siltanen. Guy could really hammer the puck. Scored 17 one year here and 3 times in NHL hit 15. he would crush pucks. One of many good Finns we've had. He went all the way back to the WHA years.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Nurse has cut out most of the downside elements of his game, bad decisions, passes, so I was not happy with him making that cross ice pass in a 2-0 game we had control of. I thought that was not great for Smith who was pitching a shutout to that point. But turned out well as it served to open up the game and Connor got his 100pts and Leon 500.

When I grew up with the Oilers they had a Finn on the point, Risto Siltanen. Guy could really hammer the puck. Scored 17 one year here and 3 times in NHL hit 15. he would crush pucks. One of many good Finns we've had. He went all the way back to the WHA years.

I heard Connor call for the puck when that was turned over. In all fairness the whole team wanted Connor to get 100 out of the way and were forcing it. I don't blame Darnell there as he hasn't been making those kinds of risky passes all season.

 

[SwedishFire]

Funny sidenote; This is a thread about Nuge. And havnt read his name here for awhile. Im a bit afraid of what to weire, cause I really feel the ongoing process, Nuges very quiet. Doesnt seems happy, you know, all pieces isnt ehere they should be.
And everyone talking him down, may actually pull it to the wrong directipn.
Its not easy to find qualityplayers in this leauge. And I think nuge is a good player, but things hasnt gone great this year.

I fear that Nuge isnt meeting Hollands wishes.
But on the other side. I dont know of Nuge will evolute to become a better player. Will he even start to decline now? Hard to tell. I think he is dunb to leave the team when thingd starts to look pretty sweet.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm just not seeing where all of this so-called cap room we're going to have this off season is. We need to sign Larsson, and IMO Barrie, and also Nuge. We still have the 5.75 mill and 4.5 million anchors of Neal and Koskinen weighing on us,the 575,000 of Turris to move or bury, as well as a bunch of others to sign. IMO, next year is when some relief comes, as Koskinen's deal is finally done, and we could bury Neal's contract without incurring too much damage going forward.

I have stated this a million times. They can re-sign all those UFA's, re-sign Yamamoto, Klef can return from LTIR and they'd still have enough money to sign a top 6 forward (4-5M range) and Smith, and this is without buying out Koskinen or Neal.

 

[CupofOil]

IMO the 2nd line looked good when he was centering it but Yamamoto is as snake bitten as any top 6 forward that I can remember in recent memory on the Oilers. Last night IMO on the wing he didn't play with the same urgency that he did at C. IMO next season we should run Draisaitl-McDavid-Pulju and RNH centers the 2nd line with 2 new wingers because neither Yamamoto or Kahun are cutting it right now in their roles. I'd go all in for a 2nd line RW (Holloway is likely to be the LW on that line) and keep Yamamoto on the 3rd line.

So you think Yamamoto isn't cutting it in his role yet you want to put RNH in a role where he hasn't cut it? I don't quite get that mindset.
If the Oilers want to be taken seriously next season, RNH cannot be centering their 2nd line unless it's a Draisaitl or McDavid level winger flanking him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So you think Yamamoto isn't cutting it in his role yet you want to put RNH in a role where he hasn't cut it? I don't quite get that mindset.
If the Oilers want to be taken seriously next season, RNH cannot be centering their 2nd line unless it's a Draisaitl or McDavid level winger flanking him.

Yama is struggling mightily as far as production though and has only 6 shots in last 6GP and only 68 the whole season. Its not just that he's not scoring, he's barely getting anything on target. I mean even Kahun has a few less shots but has been either out of the lineup or dropped down at different pts a dozen games.

Yama not producing a drop lately. Still the work ethic but one can see the frustration getting to him immensely. I worry about the decrease in shot count. Lots of times around the net he's so snakebit he's missing the net from trying so hard to make some kind of play instead of simplifying when struggling.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

So you think Yamamoto isn't cutting it in his role yet you want to put RNH in a role where he hasn't cut it? I don't quite get that mindset.
If the Oilers want to be taken seriously next season, RNH cannot be centering their 2nd line unless it's a Draisaitl or McDavid level winger flanking him.

RNH is a lot more proven than Yamamoto is.

 

[Stud Muffin]

For me to resign Nuge it would have to start in the 5’s because the player he’s been this year is about a 4.5m player at best. You can always find someone to take the special teams minutes.

 

[AM]

For me to resign Nuge it would have to start in the 5’s because the player he’s been this year is about a 4.5m player at best. You can always find someone to take the special teams minutes.

Ask the other 30 teams about that.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

I have stated this a million times. They can re-sign all those UFA's, re-sign Yamamoto, Klef can return from LTIR and they'd still have enough money to sign a top 6 forward (4-5M range) and Smith, and this is without buying out Koskinen or Neal.

How does this math check out? Just curious

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

There is your original post. Obviously Connor and Leon are the main 2 reasons that our PP is elite, name me one person that says otherwise? However what I am saying is that RNH is not an easy replacement on the PP and is a big part of it. He knows Connor's and Leon's tendencies, moves the puck quickly and crisply and has a very good wrist shot to score on the PP when teams are left scrambling due to Connor and Leon making them look foolish. Our PP would likely be very good without RNH but there is no guarantee that it would be elite. If there was then the Sid/Gino Penguins and even the Leafs this season would have a lot better PP than they have. He is not a replacement level player on the PP, he is not a one trick pony like a Chiasson or a Letestu, he is a proven high end PP contributor.

Wow, did you finally come up with the whole premise of my original post?

Even though I put "that's all I'm saying" directly after it?

At least we got there I guess & NO, I'm not going to name that one guy who says otherwise because I'd be forced to call that guy a ****ing idiot & would probably lead to a extension to my restrictions here if not an outright ban.

BTW, I want to be very clear, that last line is meant as a joke.

 

[Stud Muffin]

Ask the other 30 teams about that.

Let them pay for some PP scoring then

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Wow, did you finally come up with the whole premise of my original post?

Even though I put "that's all I'm saying" directly after it?

At least we got there I guess & NO, I'm not going to name that one guy who says otherwise because I'd be forced to call that guy a ****ing idiot & would probably lead to a extension to my restrictions here if not an outright ban.

BTW, I want to be very clear, that last line is meant as a joke.

I guess you still don't get how to interact with posters here, enjoy your 2 weeks off and hopefully when you come back you'll have learned, otherwise you'll have to learn the hard way.

 

[bucks_oil]

I have stated this a million times. They can re-sign all those UFA's, re-sign Yamamoto, Klef can return from LTIR and they'd still have enough money to sign a top 6 forward (4-5M range) and Smith, and this is without buying out Koskinen or Neal.

I like the sounds of all of that, but it's far more optimistic than my plan (I have us buying out Neal and Koskinen).

Where are you finding the cap space?

 

[CupofOil]

How does this math check out? Just curious

I like the sounds of all of that, but it's far more optimistic than my plan (I have us buying out Neal and Koskinen).

Where are you finding the cap space?

Several posters have said this very thing. This has been my response every time and I rarely get a reply from those posters who keep repeating the same thing that the Oilers don't have the cap space.

Here you go...

So according to my rough calculations, $29M of player salary comes off the books, plus a little over $2M of dead cap to add up to $31M of space with RNH, Larsson, Barrie and Yamamoto to re-sign and fill out the rest of the roster. This is also assuming that Klefbom stays on LTIR, if not it's $27M but lets say for the sake of argument that he stays on LTIR. I will also assume that Holland sends zero money out and no buyouts and to elaborate on this, Neal and Koskinen will be a little easier to move with one less year of term on their contract and are easier to buy out now so they'll have that option if need be but lets assume that Holland doesn't.

$31M of available cap space.
Lets say they sign RNH and Larsson at similar caphits to their previous contract, reasonable no?
$21M of available cap space.
Lets say they sign Barrie for $5M/yr. Maybe a little cheap but I don't think Holland gives him "fair" market value so either takes a little less to stay here or walks
$16M of available cap space
Yamamoto looks like a bridge to state the obvious... The Oilers have the leverage here like they did with Bear and it being flat cap so... 2 years $2.5M
$13.5M of available cap space
Lets examine the roster...

RNH-McDavid-Puljujarvi
???-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Kassian-???-Archibald
Neal-Turris-???

Nurse-Barrie
???-Larsson
Russell-Bear

Bouchard (I wonder how he fits in if they re-sign Barrie and Larsson, complicated)

Koskinen
???

A couple of those ??? can be filled with prospects or re-sign Khaira/Haas for cheap so that's about $2M gone so we're left with $11.5M for #2LW, #2D and goalie. Won't be able to fill all those holes unless they buy out Neal and/or Koskinen or move some money out but there's flexibility to at least fill SOME holes with good players as opposed to the bargain bin diving Holland has had to do the last two offseasons.
Hell, even Klefbom and Smith could fill two of those holes at about $6M then you have $5.5M left for a LW+extra forward and this is with re-signing everybody.

If there's anything I'm missing or any salary projections that you disagree with, I'm willing to be proven wrong.