The Franchise Needs a Whistleblower

[russ99]

As ridiculous as most of his moves were, I think a lot of people would agree, and it's been made clear regardless that some of the most recent ones were by committee. Koski, Manning, Petro. It was clear PC was on thin ice before these moves were made, so I'd say it's safe to assume other guys were in the know.

Back to it. I'd love to see someone like PC, or even Hitch after he leaves this summer, step up in the media and talk about how much of a mess all of the management is in the organization. The results have been the same over the last 15 years despite staff changes at almost every level from players to coaches to GM's. So similar to the results of the decade of darkness that one can only assume the common theme is the OBC. Someone who was in a significant position of management needs to come out and absolutely **** all over these inept puds to the point that Katz is essentially forced to make some sort of public comments on it all. At least then we'll all know for sure whether there's ever a chance of things changing under his ownership, instead of always having these slivers of hope, only to have them torn away from you.

I hope it’s Chia, he’s got no hope of a GM job anytime soon, what does he have to lose?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I think as fans we are at our wits end.

Truth is, the Oilers are a highly profitable business, and Katz will see no reason to make changes as long as he is making a profit.


We need the Oilers to lose a LOT of money really quickly if we want to see changes. We need to see mostly empty seats for the OBC to be fired.

 

[Phil120362]

As ridiculous as most of his moves were, I think a lot of people would agree, and it's been made clear regardless that some of the most recent ones were by committee. Koski, Manning, Petro. It was clear PC was on thin ice before these moves were made, so I'd say it's safe to assume other guys were in the know.

Back to it. I'd love to see someone like PC, or even Hitch after he leaves this summer, step up in the media and talk about how much of a mess all of the management is in the organization. The results have been the same over the last 15 years despite staff changes at almost every level from players to coaches to GM's. So similar to the results of the decade of darkness that one can only assume the common theme is the OBC. Someone who was in a significant position of management needs to come out and absolutely **** all over these inept puds to the point that Katz is essentially forced to make some sort of public comments on it all. At least then we'll all know for sure whether there's ever a chance of things changing under his ownership, instead of always having these slivers of hope, only to have them torn away from you.

I hear ya,we had Wang,Snow,and Capuano

 

[harpoon]

Is it his bosses fault that he couldn't properly evaluate NHL talent, and make appropriate trades?

Apparently. We’ve now had 53 different threads attempting to shift culpability from the utter f***ing moron who drove the franchise into the gutter AFTER getting a big fat golden lotto ticket. I agree with @Soundwave, f*** Chiarelli.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

It's very obviously all Chiarelli. His acquisitions have all been consistent with his brand of hard hitting style of hockey.

I'm not saying the OBC are saints who can take this team to the promiseland, but regarding the current iteration of the Oilers (post-McDavid draft), this failure is 100% on Chiarelli. He was not forced at gunpoint to sign Lucic, trade Hall, trade Eberle, etc. The damage was already done waaaaaaaay before these Manning/Petrovic trades.

seems to me Nicholson was okay with every single move he made
probably because it was an organizational philosophy to get bigger to compete in the Pacific
if the organization didn't approve the direction the Oilers were going, Chiarelli would have been fired a lot sooner

As I recall, there were plenty of users who praised Chiarelli's moves when we made the playoffs. He not only didn't improve that team, but instead downgraded talent left and right which is why we're in this **** hole right now. None of that is on the OBC. Chiarelli's the GM and he calls the shots. Elliot Friedman said the OBC did not always agree with Chiarelli's moves but they let him do it anyways. If they had intervened we might not be looking at Jack Hughes this summer.

why wouldn't we? he acquired Maroon to scored 27 goals for the team
he acquired Talbot who had a Vezina-type season
he acquired Kassian who had a MASSIVE impact in the playoffs

problem is everything he did after 206-17 went to crap

 

[harpoon]

Excuse me for being excited and not giving a **** what a bunch of random forum users were saying

Nobody blames you for that. It is however getting kind of hard to stomach threads like this where ‘random forum users’ bleat on and on about the obc in an attempt to make Chiarelli somehow look like less than the complete idiot he so clearly is. And Nicholson too, because he is supposed to be supervising what’s going on.

 

[Cloned]

Connor looks so young and optimistic in this picture...

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Apparently. We’ve now had 53 different threads attempting to shift culpability from the utter ****ing moron who drove the franchise into the gutter AFTER getting a big fat golden lotto ticket. I agree with @Soundwave, **** Chiarelli.

Wait, the franchise wasn’t in the gutter before that?
You must be a member of the Oilers brass, pinning this all on Chia:
“Yeah, yeah it was all Chiarelli! Don’t blame us! Nothing to see here, the problem of the last 13 years of incompetence has been found”
Meanwhile the people responsible for the state of this franchise and put Chiarelli in place escape blame and continue to collect pay checks

 

[harpoon]

Wait, the franchise wasn’t in the gutter before that?
You must be a member of the Oilers brass, pinning this all on Chia:

lol. Anyone taking a cursory scroll through your post history can see that you were the biggest Chiarelli backer on this board. His number one fanboy. You literally spent hours defending the man. You babbled on and on about how Chiarelli and Nicholson had a plan and how this season was going to be like 16/17 and how us 'debby downers, chicken littles etc' were going to named and shamed off the board for our 'negativity' once the grand plan came to fruition. But yeah, I'm working for the Oilers

“Yeah, yeah it was all Chiarelli! Don’t blame us! Nothing to see here, the problem of the last 13 years of incompetence has been found”

Before the golden ticket. McDavid changed everything. It comes as no surprise to me that you are unwilling or unable to acknowledge this fact. If I had your post history on this topic Id be ashamed to show my face here.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

lol. Anyone taking a cursory scroll through your post history can see that you were the biggest Chiarelli backer on this board. His number one fanboy. You literally spent hours defending the man. You babbled on and on about how Chiarelli and Nicholson had a plan and how this season was going to be like 16/17 and how us 'debby downers, chicken littles etc' were going to named and shamed off the board for our 'negativity' once the grand plan came to fruition. But yeah, I'm working for the Oilers

so no actual reasons to believe things will get better, other the same tired "#1 Chia fanboy" rabble from you

typical

Before the golden ticket. McDavid changed everything.

explain...cause obviously it hasn't

It comes as no surprise to me that you are unwilling or unable to acknowledge this fact. If I had your post history on this topic Id be ashamed to show my face here.

I've been here 15 year right, wrong or otherwise lol
your constant negative post history is embarrassing enough

sorry dude, no one is buying the main problem is fixed but a handful of naive posters here such as yourself
this organization that puts dumb people in important positions are still around

 

[harpoon]

so no actual reasons to believe things will get better, other the same tired "#1 Chia fanboy" rabble from you typical

wtf are you talking about? Why would I be providing reasons that 'things will get better'? I dont believe for a second that they will get better.
You seem to think I believe the firing of Chiarelli has sorted everything out. Talk about naive. And btw, how is it any different, or better, for you to post that I'm a member of Oiler brass, than it is for me to post that you are Chiarelli's biggest fanboy? I can point to evidence for my claim. You?

explain...cause obviously it hasn't

Pffft. If you dont get why the gift from heaven of a generational talent to the most undeserving franchise in the league changes things then you are even less in touch with reality than I suspected.

I've been here 15 year right, wrong or otherwise lol
your constant negative post history is embarrassing enough

Fifteen years of being wrong or fifteen years of being negative. Hmmm.

sorry dude, no one is buying the main problem is fixed but a handful of naive posters here such as yourself
this organization that puts dumb people in important positions are still around

Again, stop supposing. I never thought or posted that firing Chiarelli fixed the main problems. Imagine though if hed been fired when the 'negative' posters were calling for it ... but no, some simps wanted him to be given another year. Now look at the situation. The real problem here is Katz. Go back and look at my posts when he took over the team. I didnt like the move. Bet you were right there in the majority clapping like a seal. There comes a time, after you've been wrong again and again and again, when you no longer get to stand on the high ground and call others 'negative'. You reached that point several seasons ago.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Imagine though if hed been fired when the 'negative' posters were calling for it ... but no, some simps wanted him to be given another year. Now look at the situation.

Man... we’d be in so much better shape. At the very least we’d have stopped digging deeper and adding to next year’s cap attached to more bad hockey players.

Possibly changed course on the pro scouts and hockey ops as well. There’d be less carnage to dig through, at least, and maybe we’d be starting to turn it around.

The Manning, Petro, Spooner and Koskinen deals are on Nicholson as much as Chia because it was clear the “plan” was a joke and a failure last season. It was entirely foreseeable Chia would bury us with desperation moves and Nicholson allowed that.

I also understand your frustration.

This view that Chia should get another year was shared by a few people around here. Meanwhile, those of us who wanted him gone before he could do further damage were chastised and told we were just negative.

Not real fans.

Like we should’ve been happily watching Chia destroy the talent base that we’d suffered for a decade waiting for.

Well, we were right. Further damage was done and now people are trying to downplay Chia’s role in the destruction. As if Chia’s moves didn’t all look like Chia moves.

MacT and Howson weren’t “meddling”, they’re in hockey ops. It’s their job, it’s not a conspiracy.
Chia kept them in those positions. It was reported as his decision to keep them. Even if he had been pushed to keep them on staff, he certainly didn’t have to listen to them.

 

[CM4]

It was Peter Chiarelli idea to hire Paul Coffey since he was the president of hockey operations.

Also his decision to keep Craig Mctavish, Scott Howson. No chance that they didn’t force him to keep them.

Bob Nicholson thought Kevin Lowe’s 12 years of losing was bad luck and decided to keep him with no pressure.

Peter Chiarelli deserves all the criticism but so does the OBC. They are all garbage.

 

[joestevens29]

I don't know what fans want. We had Whitney last week talking about the Hall-Anderson episode and people didn't want to hear it because it was Whitney.

Not like Whitney ever did anything to fans either, so I question whether fans would even listen if Tambo or PC came out with a tell all book

 

[Weitz]

I don't know what fans want. We had Whitney last week talking about the Hall-Anderson episode and people didn't want to hear it because it was Whitney.

Not like Whitney ever did anything to fans either, so I question whether fans would even listen if Tambo or PC came out with a tell all book

Thats just it. People want a whistleblower... Well there have been tons of players who have said things about this terrible organization. And it all gets dismissed because reasons.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

wtf are you talking about? Why would I be providing reasons that 'things will get better'? I dont believe for a second that they will get better.
You seem to think I believe the firing of Chiarelli has sorted everything out. Talk about naive.

so then why post in here? to boast about "how right you are"?
no one cares dude

Pffft. If you dont get why the gift from heaven of a generational talent to the most undeserving franchise in the league changes things then you are even less in touch with reality than I suspected.

again I ask since you didn't answer...what changed? the franchise is still garbage before and after McDavid

Fifteen years of being wrong or fifteen years of being negative. Hmmm.

yeah, I've been wrong every time...since you seem to love going through my history, please post my initial thoughts of the Reinhart trade...

Again, stop supposing. I never thought or posted that firing Chiarelli fixed the main problems. Imagine though if hed been fired when the 'negative' posters were calling for it ... but no, some simps wanted him to be given another year. Now look at the situation.

you're right, it's a few random posters on a message board's fault that Nicholson didn't fire him earlier

The real problem here is Katz. Go back and look at my posts when he took over the team. I didnt like the move. Bet you were right there in the majority clapping like a seal. There comes a time, after you've been wrong again and again and again, when you no longer get to stand on the high ground and call others 'negative'. You reached that point several seasons ago.

whoa, congratulations on nailing that one

again, no one cares dude

 

[CupofOil]

You two do realize this franchise was hot garbage beore PC even got here, right? Even when he got here. This franchise has repeatedly "been on the rise with good young talent and some high draft picks".

06' was a fluke. This team hasn't done anything right since they last won a damn cup. Can't scout, can't draft, can't develop, can't win, can't do anything right for any period of time.

We also agree to disagree that PC had carte blanche on every one of his trades, because I find it oddly convenient that a guy with no ties to the Edmonton Oil kings trades away two picks in one of the best drafts ever for a former Oil King that management had a hard-on for for years even though he clearly wasn't cut out for the NHL. In no way did I ever say he only made moves because they told him to though. Some if his trades were baffling on their own,while others so obviously stunk of OBC that I don't know how you can discredit it.

There is so clearly issues in the front office of this franchise that run deeper than PC, that it would be satisfying to see someone like PC finally state it publically is all I'm saying.

You're not wrong that the issues lie deeper than Chiarelli but this CURRENT mess is his doing. I don't doubt that there were voices in the room (MacT, Howson) that were factors and they are a part of the problem for sure but he's the one who did the negotiations, he's the one who had the final sign off on these deals. Who are you going to blame? The president or his cabinet?

I agree that MacT and Howson are big issues. I agree that Katz is THE biggest issue but a competent GM doesn't let what happened these past few years happen regardless of who is whispering in his ear. This also follows the pattern of Chia mishaps from years past to a T. Trading away star players for low value, valuing size and grit as a premium and mismanaging the cap. Are we to blame Neely and those old boys for that mess too? Luckily for them, they let PC go before the damage became too extensive and were able to quickly bounce back because of superior drafting.
Guys like Spooner and Cave were Chia guys also. Lucic was a Chia guy. Lets not act like these moves weren't initiated by him.

The bottom line is that the root of the ultimate problem is Katz and his cronies but the culprit for the current mess is Chia and he has no leg to stand on by calling out others for the mess he played a big part in creating which would bury his reputation even further into the ground if that was at all possible. He is in no position to be a "whistleblower". Hitch maybe because...look at what he has to work with.... but certainly not Chia.

With that said, this franchise won't move forward until the new GM has real "full autonomy" to bring in his own people. MacT and Howson need to go, it's time.

 

[CupofOil]

This is so true.
But somehow people make themselves believe that Chia was somekind of puppet.
He was hired as the POHO and GM and had full autonomy.

I'm on your side regarding this issue but I don't agree that he had "full" autonomy. IMO, there's no way he chose to have MacT and Howson as his right hand men. What connection did he have with them previously? What credentials did they have?
Those two staying on had all the earmarks of doing a favor for the owner IMO.

With that said, PC owns this mess because he was the final decision maker.
I don't believe for a minute that he was a puppet or forced to make these trades/signings at gunpoint so to speak.

 

[Cypress]

It might be advisable for some posters to stop turning this into an "either/or" debate. It's possible for chia to have done a bad job AND the OBC to also be doing a bad job. A lot of fans are hungry for a clean sweep and I don't get why some of the biggest Chiarelli haters are now defending the OBC as if they have no responsibility for the state of the team. It's impossible to know the exact inner workings of things, but these guys have been in management positions for up to 15 years in some cases while the team has continued to appear poorly run from a hockey standpoint. I'm not saying they were making chiarelli's moves for him or anything, but they have the stink of failure on them and I think it's pretty reasonable to question why these guys are still around, as they don't appear to be doing their job successfully.

 

[CupofOil]

It might be advisable for some posters to stop turning this into an "either/or" debate. It's possible for chia to have done a bad job AND the OBC to also be doing a bad job. A lot of fans are hungry for a clean sweep and I don't get why some of the biggest Chiarelli haters are now defending the OBC as if they have no responsibility for the state of the team. It's impossible to know the exact inner workings of things, but these guys have been in management positions for up to 15 years in some cases while the team has continued to appear poorly run from a hockey standpoint. I'm not saying they were making chiarelli's moves for him or anything, but they have the stink of failure on them and I think it's pretty reasonable to question why these guys are still around, as they don't appear to be doing their job successfully.

Nobody is absolving the OBC of blame.
Please state where anybody is absolving them of blame.

What the "Chiarelli Haters" (Jeez, I wonder why anybody would hate Chia) are saying is that some people seem to be minimize the autonomy that he had almost as if he was forced to make these decisions. He makes the final decision when it boils down to it, just like MacT the previous regime and Tambo prior to that. All the voices in the room can say whatever they want but those moves don't happen until the GM gives the final approval and does the actual negotiating. This isn't debatable. What is debatable is the level of prominence each voice holds in the room, what is not debatable is who pulls the final trigger and negotiates with other GMs and agents.

I think everybody can agree that the OBC needs to go and are a problem. That's not the debate here.

 

[Jet Walters]

We need Arya Stark to steal Kelly McCrimmon’s face, come in as POHO, and then do her thing. This is the best plan.

 

[Cypress]

Nobody is absolving the OBC of blame.
Please state where anybody is absolving them of blame.

What the "Chiarelli Haters" (Jeez, I wonder why anybody would hate him)

I guess I'm stuck in the past before it was everyone, lol. As far as people defending the OBC, I looked back and it seems I might have been reading that in, in this thread.

I'd rather see a clean sweep of management than pin all the failures on Chiarelli.

 

[MikeGrier99]

While a whistle-blower and public humiliation for Katz would be nice, pretty much everyone that follows this team knows where the problems lie. Lowe, Mact, and Howson have all been more or less involved for an ENTIRE DECADE of the worst NHL hockey ever played. Yet theyre still going to be involved in some capacity going forward.

Nicholson's bull shit lie that they weren't involved was pretty easy to sniff out, he even bragged about how having three former (failed) Gms was an asset for this club, and that they had been operating by committee for some time.

 

[CupofOil]

I'd rather see a clean sweep of management than pin all the failures on Chiarelli.

This can be universally agreed upon.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Nobody is absolving the OBC of blame.
Please state where anybody is absolving them of blame.

What the "Chiarelli Haters" (Jeez, I wonder why anybody would hate Chia) are saying is that some people seem to be minimize the autonomy that he had almost as if he was forced to make these decisions. He makes the final decision when it boils down to it, just like MacT the previous regime and Tambo prior to that. All the voices in the room can say whatever they want but those moves don't happen until the GM gives the final approval and does the actual negotiating. This isn't debatable. What is debatable is the level of prominence each voice holds in the room, what is not debatable is who pulls the final trigger and negotiates with other GMs and agents.

I think everybody can agree that the OBC needs to go and are a problem. That's not the debate here.

I don't see that at all
the OP was about how much the mess this organization is....before and after Chiarelli came aboard and someone within should call them out

when Chiarelli came aboard, he didn't suddenly change the way the Oilers were run, the organizational philosophy hasn't changed a lick under his watch...this team has been looking at getting bigger and tougher to play against since the days of Tambo...

There's a reason MacT took a huge run at David Clarkson, and why he continued to pick up "grit" like Luke Gazdic, Andrew Ference and Matt Hendricks

Now obviously Chiarelli had to be fired...he gutted the talent on the team to the core and hadn't won a trade since the Maroon trade, not to mention slight overpays all over the place
but this organization was fully onboard with everything Chiarelli had done to the team and only fired him due to poor team performance. Exhibit A is the baffling Koskinen extension….what kind of organization allows a GM to sign an unproven goalie to a big deal only to fire said GM a day later?

that's the terrifying part