THE Fire Torts Thread

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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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Well this is a huge nothing burger.

Of course they will have him back:laugh::laugh: Trotz has an immense amount of leverage with the Caps. They left him hanging all year, extended his GM and I heard that the owner wasn't enthralled with him and publicly stated as much, and he just won a Cup. The Caps have zero leverage with him.

Trotz might go to the Islanders. If not there, then he can sit back and wait until next season starts. When coaches start falling, he will be the first name mentioned for every opening.

I'm going to guess he gets a minimum of $5 million for 4 or more years somewhere.
...so your contention is that Trotz is going to hold out? I mean, yes, he has that opportunity, but having an opportunity to do something and wanting to do it are very different things.
 

Cyclones Rock

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...so your contention is that Trotz is going to hold out? I mean, yes, he has that opportunity, but having an opportunity to do something and wanting to do it are very different things.
I wouldn't call it that. His current options are pretty slim as far as I can see. I'd call it "waiting".

How many jobs are open now? The Islanders are it I think. If that's not a fit for either party, then it's the Caps. Who knows what feelings Trotz has for ownership or management. If he's had it with them, he may just wait for an opening where there isn't currently one.

Clode Juliens contract just came to mind. 5 years at $5 million per. This will be Trotz's payday. He may have to wait a bit for it if the Islanders aren't a possibility and he's done with The Caps.
 

pete goegan

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A recent article in the Washington Post suggested that sitting out for a year might be an option, he’s been coaching nonstop for thirty+ years, though most expect him to get a big contract to stay with the Caps.
 

KJ Dangler

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Oct 21, 2006
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Time to get this bad boy dusted off, seems like it may come in handy this season , the fact he’s letting Larsen continue to coach our powerplay , plus turned him into our new defensive coach , is a fireable offense , right there :naughty:
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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He seems attached to Larsen, as he was with Sullivan before him. I don't see anything changing anytime soon, and IIRC Torts just got a contract extension, so good luck with this.
 

CBJWerenski8

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Also, the easiest thing to do in sports is fire the coach. At some point the players have to take responsibility. Torts isn't perfect, no, namely his reluctance to do anything for the special teams that has sucked for years, but players like Foligno, Atkinson, Bob, etc who have been here for the Richards years/early Torts years are the ones shouldering this atrocity on the ice. Lulls happen, yes, but the absolute disinterest in playing/playing down to opponents is sickening from this group. The entitlement of these guys is unreal given their mild success they can write their name on is a 100 point season and 3 playoff wins. The powerplay/PK isn't being executed by the coaches, its being executed by the players, and they have done f*** all.

This is a long way of saying I don't think Torts deserves firing.
 
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major major

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He seems attached to Larsen, as he was with Sullivan before him. I don't see anything changing anytime soon, and IIRC Torts just got a contract extension, so good luck with this.

Those contract extensions don't mean much. Coaches are fired at all stages of their contracts.

Also, the easiest thing to do in sports is fire the coach. At some point the players have to take responsibility. Torts isn't perfect, no, namely his reluctance to do anything for the special teams that has sucked for years, but players like Foligno, Atkinson, Bob, etc who have been here for the Richards years/early Torts years are the ones shouldering this atrocity on the ice. Lulls happen, yes, but the absolute disinterest in playing/playing down to opponents is sickening from this group. The entitlement of these guys is unreal given their mild success they can write their name on is a 100 point season and 3 playoff wins. The powerplay/PK isn't being executed by the coaches, its being executed by the players, and they have done **** all.

This is a long way of saying I don't think Torts deserves firing.

So your plan is to do what?

I'm hoping we can get a positive coach like Gallant that can get players to play with a more routine confidence. This angry coach act makes the players more fragile. Torts talks about the problem of overcoaching and then does that every game. He says he won't use the line blender and then does it every game. And of course the PP has sucked too much, for too long. The team defensive cohesion looks like what you'd expect for a coach nearing the end of his rope.

I don't know if you want to fire a coach this early though, when they haven't been consistently bad. It might just further the fragility of the team. We might have to bottom out lower than this.
 

CBJWerenski8

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Those contract extensions don't mean much. Coaches are fired at all stages of their contracts.



So your plan is to do what?

I'm hoping we can get a positive coach like Gallant that can get players to play with a more routine confidence. This angry coach act makes the players more fragile. Torts talks about the problem of overcoaching and then does that every game. He says he won't use the line blender and then does it every game. And of course the PP has sucked too much, for too long. The team defensive cohesion looks like what you'd expect for a coach nearing the end of his rope.

I don't know if you want to fire a coach this early though, when they haven't been consistently bad. It might just further the fragility of the team. We might have to bottom out lower than this.

Yeah, they are, but lets not pretend like this thing is off the rails. It's not good, but still salvageable. That isn't enough to get a coach fired, especially with the youth on the team and the distractions around it. Sometimes accountability shouldn't all be placed on the coach, and I'm not a big Torts guy.

My plan? I don't know, it's not my job. I'm just an observer. Better players? Accountability from the locker room leadership?

The teams fragility has been a thing before Torts got here and it'll be here when he leaves if the same players are here. I recall early in the Richards years we were pretty solid with one goal leads, now we choke them away like its our jobs. We take periods off, at least its fun to see which one it is, and that's a team/leadership problem not coaching.
 
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MoeBartoli

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Those contract extensions don't mean much. Coaches are fired at all stages of their contracts.



So your plan is to do what?

I'm hoping we can get a positive coach like Gallant that can get players to play with a more routine confidence. This angry coach act makes the players more fragile. Torts talks about the problem of overcoaching and then does that every game. He says he won't use the line blender and then does it every game. And of course the PP has sucked too much, for too long. The team defensive cohesion looks like what you'd expect for a coach nearing the end of his rope.

I don't know if you want to fire a coach this early though, when they haven't been consistently bad. It might just further the fragility of the team. We might have to bottom out lower than this.
Yes, yes and yes

Yeah, they are, but lets not pretend like this thing is off the rails. It's not good, but still salvageable. That isn't enough to get a coach fired, especially with the youth on the team and the distractions around it. Sometimes accountability shouldn't all be placed on the coach, and I'm not a big Torts guy.

My plan? I don't know, it's not my job. I'm just an observer. Better players? Accountability from the locker room leadership?

The teams fragility has been a thing before Torts got here and it'll be here when he leaves if the same players are here. I recall early in the Richards years we were pretty solid with one goal leads, now we choke them away like its our jobs. We take periods off, at least its fun to see which one it is, and that's a team/leadership problem not coaching.
Agree on accountability. So I’ll first start with Torts. He needs to end the nonsense of Shaw coaching forwards and Larsen the Dmen, returning Shaw to D and making Larsen a healthy scratch.
 

MAHJ71

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Yes, yes and yes


Agree on accountability. So I’ll first start with Torts. He needs to end the nonsense of Shaw coaching forwards and Larsen the Dmen, returning Shaw to D and making Larsen a healthy scratch.
He also needs to figure out the power play. Its sucked for some odd reason, for entirely too long. And not answering questions about it only pisses me off more.

I've been a big fan of Torts, I appreciate the turn around he has orchestrated but this season more than ever I'm starting to see/feel we are flawed in too many ways. Power play has been broken with no fix in sight. Penalty kill has continued to sink. Coaches are coaching positions they really are not meant to be coaching. Its a mess. Suddenly the D play is messy and hasn't seemed to get any better with the return of Jones ... then you have young kids like Bjork, Milano, and hell even Anderson being used so oddly/little that you can't help but wonder how much their development is being killed. I could go on :laugh:

Long story short: I'm not afraid to say it..... I love Torts for the change he has brought... but the overall stubbornness and old school ways/systems seems to have caught up with us. And if we slip any further in all of the areas I mentioned above - Ownership/Jarmo/JD really need to be considering a change. :dunno:
 

blahblah

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We're playing a bit like a rudderless team. It's been kind of building over time. We'll see this then the team goes on a run and it ends up coming back. I was more comfortable with Torts a couple of years ago. I'm pretty tired of his roster management. I'm not all that impressed with our player development at the NHL level, especially at forward. PLD is doing pretty well, but he was also a high first round pick. Things look a bit better at defense, but that's mostly Werenski. His handling of goalies is pretty bad.

I used to get more worked up over these things, but I'm not feeling the same emotional investment as in the past. Stay, go... Whatever.
 

major major

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So who's out there that the Jackets can hire if Torts gets canned? I don't think we're close to the point where they'd fire him and go with an interim coach. I think we might be close to a point where they'd fire him if they have a really good alternative in mind.

Who would that be? Lindy Ruff? Alain Vigneault? Bob Hartley? Dave Tippett?
 
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major major

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The Jackets are second in the league in even strength scoring. They are closer to second last on the PP. They are dead last in goals against at even strength. They are close to last on the PK.

I'm not sure but it feels like an above average group of players, that are just a total mess.
 

thebus88

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Not to mention its 10 f***in games into the year.

And the top teams in the division and wildcard teams are 1-2 points ahead.

" 'A' Dubinsky " to the "rescue".

As long as he can stay outta the 'pen' out west.
 

MoeBartoli

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Jan 12, 2011
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The Jackets are second in the league in even strength scoring. They are closer to second last on the PP. They are dead last in goals against at even strength. They are close to last on the PK.

I'm not sure but it feels like an above average group of players, that are just a total mess.
You hit two truly bothersome points. One is the PP production which I've harped on, too. It should be higher with Bread, Cam, Zach and Jones among the options. (I'll grant you we miss someone skilled at redirection like a Vanek). The other is the D corp which has some skill back there. At least 20 teams would trade their D corp for ours. That we are struggling at even strength GA shouldn't be.
 

CBJWerenski8

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So who's out there that the Jackets can hire if Torts gets canned? I don't think we're close to the point where they'd fire him and go with an interim coach. I think we might be close to a point where they'd fire him if they have a really good alternative in mind.

Who would that be? Lindy Ruff? Alain Vigneault? Bob Hartley? Dave Tippett?

Not that it matters since Torts is going nowhere for the foreseeable future but I think Vigneault could be a good fit here systematically. However his record with young players is spotty.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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So who's out there that the Jackets can hire if Torts gets canned? I don't think we're close to the point where they'd fire him and go with an interim coach. I think we might be close to a point where they'd fire him if they have a really good alternative in mind.

Who would that be? Lindy Ruff? Alain Vigneault? Bob Hartley? Dave Tippett?
Still want Ralph Krueger. :D
 

Mayor Bee

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Dec 29, 2008
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A positive coach? One who's good with young players, particularly young forwards? One who can run a power play successfully? One who's in control of his emotions and exudes confidence?

Here's one.

cut.jpg
 
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major major

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Feb 18, 2013
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Not that it matters since Torts is going nowhere for the foreseeable future but I think Vigneault could be a good fit here systematically. However his record with young players is spotty.

His record with Dan Girardi is also not great.

One good thing about Torts is if a guy is really below replacement level, he'll get scratched regardless of tenure.
 

GoJackets1

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Yeah, I'm with Major on this one. This group has all the makings of a team that is very talented, held back by poor systems/coaching. The NHL is moving to skill and speed, and as much as Torts says he recognizes this change- his coaching, line shuffling, and systems do not reflect this at all. His recent comments about the NHL being too fuzzy is evidence of this. He YEARNS for the good ole' days. The CBJ are a deep, talented team, but I don't think Torts is the one that's going to get them to the next level.

Is he the best coach we've ever had? Absolutely. But I'm very skeptical of his ability to lead us to the promised land in today's NHL. I would maybe be interested in Dave Tippett, but I also like Sheldon Keefe. The reality is we kept the worse Monsters coach (Larsen) and let go the guy I would like to have right now (Bednar).
 
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major major

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Yeah, I'm with Major on this one. This group has all the makings of a team that is very talented, held back by poor systems/coaching. The NHL is moving to skill and speed, and as much as Torts says he recognizes this change- his coaching, line shuffling, and systems do not reflect this at all. His recent comments about the NHL being too fuzzy is evidence of this. He YEARNS for the good ole' days. The CBJ are a deep, talented team, but I don't think Torts is the one that's going to get them to the next level.

Is he the best coach we've ever had? Absolutely. But I'm very skeptical of his ability to lead us to the promised land in today's NHL. I would maybe be interested in Dave Tippett, but I also like Sheldon Keefe. The reality is we kept the worse Monsters coach (Larsen) and let go the guy I would like to have right now (Bednar).

I was thinking of it more like they've tuned him out, or perhaps his systems just aren't good. At evens the Jackets are tops at both goals for and goals against, which isn't what you'd expect from a coach holding back the offensive capability of the team. They look fast to me, but also leave big gaps for the other team to play fast.
 
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