THE Fire Torts Thread

[KJ Dangler]

Seems like most gdt discussions are trending to this topic, and I'm sure I will get some flack for creating this thread, as the season is not blown yet, injuries are mounting, and we are still on pace for the playoffs. But , lets be real. Torts, has been brutally bad this season. Lines are mixed up nearly every game. Little to no adjustment, to the worst power play in the league . Giving players like Foligno, first line minutes, nearly every night, when his play has been brutal this season. Giving young players like Bjorkstrand, Milano, very little ice time, when they are both producing at a high level. Anyway, try to go easy on me, I'm just as frustrated as most posters around here.

Click to read more...

 

[Cyclones Rock]

When you can't score goals and Jenner 4 goals (18:56) gets 40% more TOI than 8 goals Bjorkstrand (13:47) goals and 50% more than 8 goals Milano (12:01) and your PP is the worst in the league and you have the worst road PK in the league, then you might have a coaching problem.

The offense is in free fall and Torts has no response-he won't even adjust ice time for non performing veterans. Foligno (18:59) is really absurd relative to Bjorkstrand (13:47). Foligno is a head case right now. Reducing his ice time is the rational move-and has been the rational move for some time.

Over reliance on veterans in prolonged slumps is not a sound philosophy. If Foligno were dropped off of the PP and had his TOI reduced to 14 or so minutes a game, I'm sure he'd understand why and probably wouldn't even be the slightest bit pissed. He's playing like crap. He knows it. We know it. The Ghost of Johnny Bower knows it. Reducing his ice time, maybe even letting him have the press box treatment for a game or two, is a much more sound approach than giving him 19 minutes per game when players who are producing much more offensively are getting 2/3rds of that.

Pull your head out Torts. If you can't make it here, then your coaching goose is fully cooked.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Whats the status on Torts contract ? Watching how he has made little adjustments to the powerplay, mismanaging his lines on a daily basis, is growing old quickly. Why are we playing dump and chase hockey, when the players refuse to play the physical game . Would Brad Shaw be the logical replacement ?

 

[EDM]

I have been saying for a couple of weeks now that what we have is a coaching problem. Glad to see others get on board. Torts refuses to trust the younger players. Instead he touts his "vets" pretty much all of whom are playing very poorly. I wonder if Jarmo is noticing Torts' refusal to go with the young guys.

 

[Maylo]

"How long are you gonna wait for offence from guys like Foligno and Boone?" (c)Porty Torts: "We have to hope they will start going! They are good players." half season is gone, enough waiting.

 

[KJ Dangler]

"How long are you gonna wait for offence from guys like Foligno and Boone?" (c)Porty Torts: "We have to hope they will start going! They are good players." half season is gone, enough waiting.

'I hear what your saying. How Torts keeps doing the same thing, expecting the results to be different, is maddening. But at what point does Jarmo get off his butt, and make something happen. Don't give me , that we have a bunch of players no one would want. Nhl general managers know true talent, and they don't look at players slumping, and say they are all garbage, like fans do. At some point, you either shake up the room, or replace the coach. Jarmo always seems way to slow in addressing our deficiencies though.

 

[Maylo]

Do you think if Torts is still Canucks coach he would play Boeser on 4th line?

 

[EspenK]

Do you think if Torts is still Canucks coach he would play Boeser on 4th line?

Do you think if Torts still coached the Canucks, would Boeser have gotten the ice time and system to score like he is?

 

[Maylo]

Do you think if Torts still coached the Canucks, would Boeser have gotten the ice time and system to score like he is?

Yeah, probably should start with that question. Boeser doesn't check at all, no one coached him how to play the system and structure!

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Whats the status on Torts contract ? Watching how he has made little adjustments to the powerplay, mismanaging his lines on a daily basis, is growing old quickly. Why are we playing dump and chase hockey, when the players refuse to play the physical game . Would Brad Shaw be the logical replacement ?

Torts has one year left after this season. Salary unknown on the source I use.


CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

For anyone interested. Go to capfriendly.com. Click on "tools" at top of site and a drop down menu will appear and "coaches" will be there. Click and voila.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Is this the Fire Torts thread?

Pre-fire thread.

His special teams have been awful this season. Last at home and away on the PP. Last on the road on the PP. The PP was awful last season after a certain point (when, I can't site). When you have a Z, Jones and Panarin on your PP and you're dead last, it's really not too much of a stretch to put a lion's share of the blame on the coaching.

His playoff strategy against the Pens ("hitting") didn't work.

The team looks really bad. He's not making adjustments-playing more of Bjork and Milano. He's putting Foligno on the first line to "get him going".

He obviously missed on his evaluation of Karlsson.

Torts through 16 game winning streak=dynamite. Post streak (one year now)=sub par.

I love his pressers. He is more candid than almost any coach I've ever listened to. I'd love to see him succeed.

Are you for an extension? What's your take on him?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Pre-fire thread.

His special teams have been awful this season. Last at home and away on the PP. Last on the road on the PP. The PP was awful last season after a certain point (when, I can't site). When you have a Z, Jones and Panarin on your PP and you're dead last, it's really not too much of a stretch to put a lion's share of the blame on the coaching.

His playoff strategy against the Pens ("hitting") didn't work.

The team looks really bad. He's not making adjustments-playing more of Bjork and Milano. He's putting Foligno on the first line to "get him going".

He obviously missed on his evaluation of Karlsson.

Torts through 16 game winning streak=dynamite. Post streak (one year now)=sub par.

I love his pressers. He is more candid than almost any coach I've ever listened to. I'd love to see him succeed.

Are you for an extension? What's your take on him?

That's a nicely-done assessment and pretty much where I'm at.

I wasn't a fan of the hire, based on his rep as a hardass and his propensity to shit-stir. It's funny because I've warmed to him precisely because it doesn't feel like same old Torts since he's been here. So I've come around on him as a coach for this team at this time.

Here's what I believe: that he and Jarmo and JD agreed to a course of action that favored growth, not just of individual players but of the organization, and that Torts felt like he was at a point in his career where nurturing and developing players, building a team and a culture and teaching/mentoring young guys was something he wanted to do and felt he'd be good at. I think that's been, largely, the case. Patience and commitment to players and a system/culture have been what I've seen from him the most.

The question now is what's up that things aren't going well? Does the braintrust feel like this is part of the growth of the team? Does the braintrust feel like it needs to reevaluate? And does that reevaluation deem that there are some pieces that need to change, or that there's a course correction needed - i.e. fire the coach?

Because I am flexible and adaptable in my way of thinking, but mostly because I am also a paralysis-by-analysis person, I'm usually the last person on the fire someone train (Ken Hitchcock aside, which is funny since there are plenty of folks who think he shouldn't have been fired while stupid, boring do-nothing me was among the first to point out that he didn't seem to have any answers and to question whether he should be the coach, if not out and out call for his firing.). I'm personally not there, but is interesting to see the worm kind of turn among people who gave me grief for being opposed to the hire in the first place.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So THIS is the fire Torts thread!

 

[KJ Dangler]

So THIS is the fire Torts thread!

Yup, I got the hint

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'll be honest. I wasn't faulting the discussion in other threads. But I did want to see if there was a willingness to acknowledge that that's what we might be talking about.

 

[Maylo]

I would add poor goalie management to the list, sitting Korpi too often, playing Bob too much and everything that CR said in game thread. I think he still same ole Team USA Torts, and his style of hockey is painfull to watch.

 

[Maylo]

Zach wants Torts to be fired too!

More#CBJ D @ZachWerenski: "These last 2 games we haven’t created much offensively. We still have to remember we have to be on the attack. It’s just being smarter. Obviously we don’t want to play too safe. That means they’re on the attack and they’re getting a bunch of opportunities"Asked #CBJ D @ZachWerenski if safer style has made it tougher to produce many scoring chances: "Uh, yeah. I don’t think it should make it harder, but I think it does.""I think guys are kind of thinking just defensively. That’s a good thing, but at the same time we have to be on attack, put everything on net, get bodies there, get guys crashing the net, still play our style. I think we’ve shied away from that.”

 

[EspenK]

Coaches can make a difference. They don't always though. Colorado with a new coach is doing well but it took a year. Montreal sucks.

I think we have a mish mash of styles on the team and therefore it is difficult to devise a system to take advantage of everyone's talents. Torts seems to have figured out a way to take advantage of no ones's talents.

If put to a yes/no vote I'd vote yes because I don't think the team is working.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Ok. First let me get my pent up frustration from the last few weeks out of my system by saying: "F*** Torts!".....Now let me move past my emotions with a more clinical take.

I don't think this has been a good year for Torts. My biggest criticism is that management is committed to shifting to a younger roster, but Torts hasn't been as committed to the younger players. Often younger players come to the NHL with their offensive skills more developed than their understanding of defensive responsibilities. They're both imprortant. But Torts stubbornness and imbalanced prioritization of defense causes him to default to the veterans as he can't stand the mistakes (even though this veteran group has by no means been immune from breakdowns). It's a basic instinct to go back to who you are in the most stressful situations. That's very true for Torts. (His tendencies remind me of Ohio State football - when things get tough, we'll just have JT run every down).

Because of the above, I'm left to be critical of Torts line combos, TOI allocations as well as the rover stuff. I don't think he's managed his assets well nor has he excelled at developing some of the younger forwards. But I still think he can coach and ironically - almost contradictory - I still think he can teach.

Now it may surprise you when I say I'm not ready to fire Torts. To use a Torts term, he's got credit in the bank. In year one, he changed the culture. In year two, he coached us to the best season in franchise history and won the Jack Adams. I'm for letting the season play out as long as I'm permitted to grumble freely when I don't like what I see. He's got four regulars who will return at some point and I want to see how things evolve as they return. At the same time, Jarmo and JD need to tell him to better manage the young forwards.

Torts has no patience (except with vets); maybe I have more than I should. But I've always been better served by the latter.

 

[DJA]

I mentioned a few weeks ago that it looked to me like the team had started tuning Torts out, and I got ripped.

Like it or not, Torts has a very short shelf life. Three years would be about the max I would think, so he’s coming up to the end of his usefulness.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Like it or not Torts is going to have this whole year and likely next year. He's not going anywhere. The offensive woahs are not on him, its on the roster. If anything, this should be about Jarmo.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

That's a nicely-done assessment and pretty much where I'm at.

I wasn't a fan of the hire, based on his rep as a hardass and his propensity to ****-stir. It's funny because I've warmed to him precisely because it doesn't feel like same old Torts since he's been here. So I've come around on him as a coach for this team at this time.

Here's what I believe: that he and Jarmo and JD agreed to a course of action that favored growth, not just of individual players but of the organization, and that Torts felt like he was at a point in his career where nurturing and developing players, building a team and a culture and teaching/mentoring young guys was something he wanted to do and felt he'd be good at. I think that's been, largely, the case. Patience and commitment to players and a system/culture have been what I've seen from him the most.

The question now is what's up that things aren't going well? Does the braintrust feel like this is part of the growth of the team? Does the braintrust feel like it needs to reevaluate? And does that reevaluation deem that there are some pieces that need to change, or that there's a course correction needed - i.e. fire the coach?

Excellent analysis.

I didn't want Richards to be fired and I was, I guess, indifferent to Torts. His in-your-face-style wasn't off putting to me (especially with the media), but I have general reservations about coaches who have been head coaches for 20 years. There's only so much in the tank. Not an iron clad rule (who wouldn't have taken Scotty Bowman in his 70s?).

I'm not in the "fire him" camp....... yet. The injuries to Wennberg, Atkinson and even Dubinsky and, yes, even the great one (name not needed) have to be given considerable weight when determining the causes of the recent woes in scoring and defense. But, the special teams shortcomings and the propensity to play veterans no matter how bad they're stinking up the joint are black marks on his record. Perhaps his disdain for playing younger players led him to not use Karlsson in a manner in which his talent would have fully revealed. Perhaps not. But it is part of an overall evaluation on his coaching methodology.

At a bare minimum, I'm for giving him the rest of the season at this point. The current down cycle is less than a month old. Teams go through lulls and bad stretches. Injured players will return.

There's also the factor of "who's the next bum". Shaw appears to be a career assistant. He coached in Cincinnati (under Babcock) and the scoop on him was "good x's and o's; not so much the motivator. The "x's and o's" analysis can be questioned given the current special teams play-though I don't know what his exact role is, he is part of the equation. Larsen, well, NO.

 

[Maylo]

Shaw appears to be a career assistant. He coached in Cincinnati (under Babcock) and the scoop on him was "good x's and o's; not so much the motivator. The "x's and o's" analysis can be questioned given the current special teams play-though I don't know what his exact role is, he is part of the equation.

His special team suffers from injures the most imo, Dubi, Cam and Wennberg are all great PK's so is the great one who has always been used to protect the lead. So yeah he gets the benefit. Larsen though, who survived Richards firing somehow should have been gone when last season ended.

 

[EDM]

The suggestion that the blame is on Jarmo rather than Torts is patently absurd. Jarmo has given him a couple of young gifted scorers inBjork & Sonny. Torts has essentially stapled them to the bench while continuing to rely upon slow moving “vets” who are doing nothing. Roster mismanagement, not lack of talent, is the problem.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Did we fire him yet??