The Fallout

[JPE123]

Is Mantha still on the team?

 

[Oddbob]

Is Mantha still on the team?

?

 

[HIFE]

They'll lose, but they shouldn't be stringing together multiple blowout losses where effort is clearly a question. At some point, either Blashill has totally lost the room and needs to be moved or some players need to be moved because they have become cancers. Detroit doesn't have to win their next five games, they just need to look like they are engaged and working hard.

I want to genuinely ask because I've read it about a 100 times the last 2 weeks: where in the f*** are you guys getting the lack of effort narrative? I watched the same games and effort is last thing I think of watching goals pile up in Detroit's net.

Laying out an earth-shattering idea here: Nielsen, Helm, Abdelkader, Hronek, Jensen, AA, Larkin, DDK, Cholowski, Vanek, Mantha... ARE ACTUALLY TRYING!

Someone brought up last night why the Wings can't win a majority of board battles. It boils down to one thing, a lack of talent. Hockey isn't about skating 100% every step on the ice, or just brute strength. It's much more a game of wits and craftiness to outsmart your opponent. The board battles are a series of fakes, stick lifts, every trick known in the book. That's why you send a smaller Drouin (or Gaudreau if you like) against any Wings player and he comes out with the puck (or gets it where he wants). Larkin may be a fantastic skater but IMO watching for years has nowhere near the trickiness/IQ of the top stars.

You don't think Mantha wants to score? SMH. Mantha has a huge body but somewhat clumsy feet and I'm going to say average to below average hands. Nothing about his play has ever screamed superstar potential. He physically cannot stop up and pivot to defend against more athletic or agile opponents. Like almost all our players he isn't lazy- he lacks raw skill to be a dominant force.

Glendening can skate at 30 mph for 20 minutes a night and he still won't top his career high of 12 goals. jkuts made a good analogy about the highschool team coached by Bowman. You can't teach hockey smarts and goal-scoring ability to grown men.

To me writing the deficiencies and pitiful lack of talent of this team off on Blashill's system or lack of effort is more lazy than the group we're nit-picking.

 

[Shaman464]

They'll lose, but they shouldn't be stringing together multiple blowout losses where effort is clearly a question. At some point, either Blashill has totally lost the room and needs to be moved or some players need to be moved because they have become cancers. Detroit doesn't have to win their next five games, they just need to look like they are engaged and working hard.

This would make a ton of sense if most of them weren't under team control with contract years coming up before too long. Losing due to "lack of effort" a season is basically taking money out of their own bank account.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Neal - 30 goal scorer
Marchessault - 30 goal scorer
Reilly Smith - 20-25 goal scorer, like 50 point winger.

Also, on paper their D wasn't fantastic... but their D also didn't play beyond its means. Fleury also had a fantastic year.

Hell, they had castoffs, but the rules of the expansion draft made it so they actually had a choice of legit talented players. Yes, they had some flukes with Karlsson and Haula going off in a big way, but they took a team that had complimentary skills. It was stated at the time of the draft that it was the most talented expansion team to ever exist.

Exactly. I remember people saying that team was better than Detroit BEFORE last season started.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

?

Legit question, seeing how he’s been invisible. Abdelkader too.

 

[jkutswings]

After the last three games, it's not Jeff Blashill that I most want to hear from/about.

The best thing for this team would be to find out that Dylan Larkin called an additional practice on an off day, received full participation, and that he was joined by Kronwall, Abdelkader, and Nielsen as the first guys on the ice and last guys off the ice.

This year will be a lot to handle, especially for the younger players. But regardless of what I think of the coach, seeing the players hold themselves accountable would be the best possible silver lining of this stretch of uninspired play.

 

[SoupNazi]

I have to believe Holland, in this case, understands there's no quick fix here.

I'm also not expecting him to pull the trigger on Blashill's firing just yet, even though I'd be quite happy if it happens before Thursday's game. I think they'll probably stick with him until December. Hell, by then we should have locked up the best lottery odds at Hughes at this rate.

 

[theYman]

1985-86 season was the worst season ever. We had a young Yzerman on the team then and now we have a young Larkin on the team. Hint hint. They went 0-9-1 in there 1st 10 games. And they lost all 9 games consecutively. Are we trying to tie that? Well the 2 pts we have could keep us from the worst start in Red Wings history.

 

[theYman]

Is Mantha still on the team?

You'd think by his play he isn't lol.

 

[Lampedampe]

We've jokingly been saying that we have a AHL defense for quite a while, well the defence currently iced is literally a AHL defense. Outside of Kronwall there's like what 100-150ish games played between the rest of them?

That's not Blash's fault, there just no way to consistently win games with those guys on the back-end and to add to that there's 2 mediocre/sub-par goalies behind them and a mediocre/sub-par offence infront of them.

 

[Gyldenlove]

With the direction of the team, it might serve us well to just let the personnel that we have run it's course this season as long as the kids are prioritized over the veterans and get ample ice time to develop. Would be hard to think of a high quality front office and coaching personnel who are immediately available right now who would want to take this over. It should be more about accepting this season as growing pains and development and trying to accumulate as many assets and flexibility as possible for a new regime to step in.

Assuming we trade the expiring of Goose and Vanek by TDL and nab some picks and/or prospects, and we finish in the bottom 3 of the league, plus Kronner and Howard coming off of the cap, we should be positioned well going into 2020 after the team cleans house from Holland and Blash after a failed season. Leaving a fine opening for Steve Yzerman to come home. So I guess in order:

1) Prioritize development of our young prospect players
2) Trade Vanek and Nyquist for draft picks/prospects
3) Hopefully get the top pick in the draft and draft Hughes (or a Top 3 pick and get a 1C or 1D upside prospect)
4) Blash is released
5) Holland "voluntarily" retires
6) Steve Comes Home
7) I feel good about the Wings for the first time in 5 years

I like this plan.

 

[TheOtherOne]

2 months ago
Hfboards: we need to lose as many games as possible!
Today
Hfboards: sure I wanted to lose, but can't we look good while doing it?

Hfboards will not be satisfied unless the kids dominate every game, losing by 1 goal at the buzzer because Howard scored on himself on purpose.

 

[Filppula]

2 months ago
Hfboards: we need to lose as many games as possible!
Today
Hfboards: sure I wanted to lose, but can't we look good while doing it?

Hfboards will not be satisfied unless the kids dominate every game, losing by 1 goal at the buzzer because Howard scored on himself on purpose.

I laughed. But the hyperbole is incredible.

 

[Reddwit]

2 months ago
Hfboards: we need to lose as many games as possible!
Today
Hfboards: sure I wanted to lose, but can't we look good while doing it?

Hfboards will not be satisfied unless the kids dominate every game, losing by 1 goal at the buzzer because Howard scored on himself on purpose.

*Hard eye roll*

It’s one thing to lose and look like a team poised to have the best lottery odds. It’s another to look like you literally don’t belong in the NHL in back-to-back games.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

*Hard eye roll*

It’s one thing to lose and look like a team poised to have the best lottery odds. It’s another to look like you literally don’t belong in the NHL in back-to-back games.

Seeing as the majority of the mistakes in at least the Montreal game were made by a couple guys who probably shouldn't be in the NHL right now (Hronek, whoever the D was that let Charles Hudon set up camp on Howard's flank and/or didn't block the passing lane.

The hell is the difference between "poised to have the top pick" and "don't belong in the league"? If you want to lose and are rooting for it, you lose the right to be like "Oh, I wanted you to be bad but not this bad." The Wings are bad right now because they brought up a kid defense all at once. And the kid defense is all just an eensy bit slow at picking up the pace of the game and where they absolutely need to be and in the NHL when you are a little slower at picking up what's going on in the game because you don't have the experience yet, you will look really really bad.

Everyone wanted the kids up and for them to make mistakes because "it's better that they get exposed to it now", but when they actually see what that means, they're apoplectic. That being said, it's really not fair to Cholo, Hronek, and Sulak. They're being asked to play WAY bigger roles than they are ready for. See Ehn? Ehn is being deployed the way a kid should be deployed and he's acquitting himself quite well. Drop Ehn on a top line and the Wings would look even more dead on offense than they do.

 

[Invictus12]

Oh for christ sake, we have 4 rookies on the back end for one. Despite the scoreboard, we aren't being just completely dominated either. Competitive but unable to convert chances into scoring much and experience is visibly lacking on the defensive side as well. Not to say we'll be winning much but getting Daley, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Green (Pretty much the 4 best Ds we have) back should certainly stop the blowouts.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Oh for christ sake, we have 4 rookies on the back end for one. Despite the scoreboard, we aren't being just completely dominated either. Competitive but unable to convert chances into scoring much and experience is visibly lacking on the defensive side as well. Not to say we'll be winning much but getting Daley, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Green (Pretty much the 4 best Ds we have) back should certainly stop the blowouts.

Yep, I feel pretty confident if they had their full experienced defense that goals 1,2, and 3 at a minimum don't happen. Guy like Daley either doesn't take that penalty for the PS or he doesn't get walked so bad. A more experienced D and Howard doesn't feel that he's got to go cowboy up and after the pokecheck on goal two because his D dropped his stick. And a larger guy like Ericsson would do more to clear out the front of the net on goal 3 so it isn't just pinballing off like five things before over Howard's shoulder.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

Which players are declining? And which of those players can't be attributed to Datsuyk or Z leaving and no longer either getting easier matchups, or better support? And what will a new voice do? Not only is there no elite coaching talent available right now, any coach that is brought in will likely stumble hard with this roster. I honestly could see most of the available coaches come in and do worse with this team, not better.

Ugh, there’s a cup winning coach sitting right next to him. Mantha has declined for one. I’ll stop tho, I get your fandoism with Blashill. It’s clear as day, many of you don’t see what a coaching change can bring, so I’ll wait for it to happen here pretty soon.

 

[Heaton]

I think at some points players should be expected to excel instead of pointing to the fact that Datsyuk and Z are gone. Larkin has excelled... but that's about it. That gives me much concern for the future, we see other organizations have their young players start to take over a bit more. We need to see that in Detroit sooner than later.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

I think at some points players should be expected to excel instead of pointing to the fact that Datsyuk and Z are gone. Larkin has excelled... but that's about it. That gives me much concern for the future, we see other organizations have their young players start to take over a bit more. We need to see that in Detroit sooner than later.

Yup, and it starts and ends with the coach. Period.

 

[Heaton]

Yup, and it starts and ends with the coach. Period.

It starts and ends with the GM, since this is his plan that's being carried out. If the coach isn't doing his job, the GM is responsible to step in and rectify the situation.

 

[Frk It]

I think at some points players should be expected to excel instead of pointing to the fact that Datsyuk and Z are gone. Larkin has excelled... but that's about it. That gives me much concern for the future, we see other organizations have their young players start to take over a bit more. We need to see that in Detroit sooner than later.

I’m concerned about guys like Mantha and AA.

But Hronek and Cholowski are 20. Rasmussen is 19. A little ambitious to expect them all to light the world on fire right out of the gate.

Bertuzzi has quietly been very good in addition to Larkin.

 

[Heaton]

I’m concerned about guys like Mantha and AA.

But Hronek and Cholowski are 20. Rasmussen is 19. A little ambitious to expect them all to light the world on fire right out of the gate.

Bertuzzi has quietly been very good in addition to Larkin.

I'm talking about AA, Mantha, Svech etc... the guys we drafted in hopes that they would be bigger pieces than they are right now.

 

[Invictus12]

Yup, and it starts and ends with the coach. Period.

Larkin strived so far... I'mnot a fanof Blashill's system by a long shot but kids aren't turning into superstars is hardly on him. Athanasiou and Mantha still make for descent wingers if the go no further than they have and so does Nyquist. AHL and lower leagues is where you re-fine your game. At NHL you look to make yourself worth the roster spot. Some are hungry fof more and some willclaim to be... Blashill's job however, isn't to be the babysitter