The Fallout

[jkutswings]

But the awful losing trend goes back to the trade deadline from last year

In terms of the W/L record, yes. But I meant in terms of getting blown out while looking disengaged. In my opinion, there have previously been 1-2 games of that at a time, but the last 3 games is the first time that such a streak has begun.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I don't think that anyone on this board whose advocating for a coaching change believes that it will make this team competitive. At least from the comments, it appears that it has far more to do with putting a coaching staff in place that will install a culture of accountability and hard work so that the "youth" of our team will have a good foundation to build upon going forward.

While I'm certainly all for that, I would caution that it is a very fine line about setting example and being a pedagogue. Some of the coaches that I can think of who are known for their "work man"-like attitudes and accountability are also some of the most confidence-destroying coaches who have had detrimental impacts on rookies (Theirren, Hitch, Keenan, Babs, etc.). Part of Blash's appeal when he was brought up from a very successful AHL career was that he was more open, player's coach and less obtuse; more forgiving and encouraging to the young players.

I'm not worried about accountability so much with these kids. I believe that the Wings typically draft high-character people and have enough ex-players and veterans in the organization to provide them the mentoring and whomever the FO brings in as the new coach next year will always want to install their own changes to the system and culture as well. At this point, all I am tracking against is time of ice given to the kids and in what roles he is asking them to play. Misusing a skilled winger as a checking line grinder or dropping them to the fourth line to have them gut it out seems counterproductive at this point and something we saw a lot in the past.

 

[Henkka]

Nah. They just wait 2 vets back on defence and restart the season.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Why is it so damn hard for people to understand??? NO ONE NOT ONE PERSON IS SAYING A NEW COACH WILL MAKE THE TEAM WIN!!!!!! The team checked out on this guys long ago, its not helping any one on the team to play under a coach they don't trust. And whats worse is it is starting with our veteran core leader guys checking out.

Can't fire the coach after 6 games but keep the GM that built this trashcan

 

[DarkReign]

So, this is what tanking looks like and people are acting surprised?

3 vet D out of the lineup, a mediocre coach whose entire transition game is predicated on a two-line pass and no elite forwards to speak of and this is surprising?

Color me unsurprised. Surprised they quit in the 2nd period two games in a row? Yes, because you’re a professional and should compete as a pro.

But the losing with Rig, Daley and DD out? No, not in the slightest. Long season coming with many more blowouts.

 

[SCD]

I don't think anyone is surprised by the losing. I am a little surprised at overall lack of consistent effort by much of the team.

 

[Oddbob]

I really dont get what you guys think firing Blashill will do. Is he the greatest coach, hell no. But this roster is awful. No coach will change this. If anything Holland should be fired first.

Vegas won with a roster of nobodies last year, precisely because they are well coached. Good coaches can make a difference, otherwise, teams may as well have no coach at all.

 

[Ezekial]

Vegas won with a roster of nobodies last year, precisely because they are well coached. Good coaches can make a difference, otherwise, teams may as well have no coach at all.

And started the season with a team/city binding event that fueled their passion.

 

[Oddbob]

And started the season with a team/city binding event that fueled their passion.

Yeah, but that didn't keep them winning all year, that would have worn off after a few months.

 

[Ezekial]

Yeah, but that didn't keep them winning all year, that would have worn off after a few months.

Not a tragedy like Vegas saw. The players and city were playing for something bigger.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Vegas won with a roster of nobodies last year, precisely because they are well coached. Good coaches can make a difference, otherwise, teams may as well have no coach at all.

Vegas doesn't have a roster full of nobodies just stop.

 

[Oddbob]

Vegas doesn't have a roster full of nobodies just stop.

William Karlsson says hello, before last year he was barely a 30 pt player. David Perron nearly doubled his career high. Their defenders were all 5-7 d on the teams they came from. Malcolm Subban was their backup. I could go on and on. Oh yeah, Tomas Nosek was on their team, too. So many household names.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

William Karlsson says hello, before last year he was barely a 30 pt player. David Perron nearly doubled his career high. Their defenders were all 5-7 d on the teams they came from. Malcolm Subban was their backup. I could go on and on. Oh yeah, Tomas Nosek was on their team, too. So many household names.

I like how you conveniently left out James Neal and Fleury to support your bogus narrative...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Vegas won with a roster of nobodies last year, precisely because they are well coached. Good coaches can make a difference, otherwise, teams may as well have no coach at all.

Nobodies? Karlsson came out of nowhere, but Marchessault was a 30 goal scorer. Neal was a 30 goal scorer. Haula basically put up something like AA's numbers in comparable time and got another 5 minutes of ice time a night. Didn't Perron get traded for a first at a deadline if I'm not mistaken. The defense wasn't exactly household names, but the Knights were a legit talented hockey team. They won so much because they got guys who had a chip on their shoulder who had a good amount of talent and it all coalesced. Gallant was a fine coach, but frankly, no amount of coaching is going to turn 8 goal William Karlsson into 43 goal William Karlsson. That was a ludicrously high S% that will come down.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

William Karlsson says hello, before last year he was barely a 30 pt player. David Perron nearly doubled his career high. Their defenders were all 5-7 d on the teams they came from. Malcolm Subban was their backup. I could go on and on. Oh yeah, Tomas Nosek was on their team, too. So many household names.

David Perron had 57 points at like 22 years old. What are you talking about?

Marchessault was a 30 goal scorer. Neal was a 25-35 goal scorer who peaked at 40 one year. Karlsson was a fluke, yes... but he also doubled his shot production. He was used on the lower lines in Columbus which is why he never had points. And like I said, no amount of coaching is suddenly going to make you pot goals at basically a 25% clip. He got the puck and shot a lot and he had exceptional luck with it.

 

[SCD]

I don't think anyone is surprised by the losing. I am a little surprised at overall lack of consistent effort by much of the team.

I should clarify this. Not all the goals against have been from lack of effort. Many have been from the just the opposite. Multiple players chasing the puck, resulting open players with easy goals. This may be lack of confidence in teammates, resulting in a breakdown in structure.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I should clarify this. Not all the goals against have been from lack of effort. Many have been from the just the opposite. Multiple players chasing the puck, resulting open players with easy goals. This may be lack of confidence in teammates, resulting in a breakdown in structure.

Most of the goals are the absence of a guy like Ericsson. Goal 3 and goal 4 don't happen if you have a big body defenseman that doesn't let the other team set up camp in your crease.
Goal 2 against montreal doesn't happen if you don't have a defenseman crazy behind the play.

I'm not saying that they need Jonathan Ericsson or even that he's a good hockey player, but all the kids aren't doing the stuff needed to help the goalie out that old pros will.

It's young kids getting walked and not having the savvy to close the gap or to take away passes or deflection opportunities once they're beat.

 

[Oddbob]

I like how you conveniently left out James Neal and Fleury to support your bogus narrative...

Bogus narrative because they had 2 well known players? Perron and the other 30 pt guys are/were nobodies. Perron is a normally 40-45 pt guy, nothing special, and Haula hit AA's numbers once, which means he is a nobody. When you think of name players, you don't think of 30-40 pt and less players. Neal and Fleury were there only names, the rest were castoffs.

It's not like people were sitting there, saying, man I can't believe they have Haula! Also, on paper, their D last year, was not a whole lot better than ours. We have a bunch of 6 and 7 D and that is what they have/had.

Not only that, but that is just one example of a good coach improving a less than ideal roster, there are lots over the years, like Ruff in Buffalo.

 

[Oddbob]

Nobodies? Karlsson came out of nowhere, but Marchessault was a 30 goal scorer. Neal was a 30 goal scorer. Haula basically put up something like AA's numbers in comparable time and got another 5 minutes of ice time a night. Didn't Perron get traded for a first at a deadline if I'm not mistaken. The defense wasn't exactly household names, but the Knights were a legit talented hockey team. They won so much because they got guys who had a chip on their shoulder who had a good amount of talent and it all coalesced. Gallant was a fine coach, but frankly, no amount of coaching is going to turn 8 goal William Karlsson into 43 goal William Karlsson. That was a ludicrously high S% that will come down.

Marchessault hit 30 once before last year, which in many cases can be seen as a fluke. He was basically unknown as even after his 30 goal season in Florida, many had never heard of him.

 

[SCD]

Like Ozzy said last night, the third goal was primarily Mantha's fault for not taking the body and skating behind the eventual scorer.
Defensive positioning could have been better last night, but the forward play in the defensive zone created many of the scoring chances.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Bogus narrative because they had 2 well known players? Perron and the other 30 pt guys are/were nobodies. Perron is a normally 40-45 pt guy, nothing special, and Haula hit AA's numbers once, which means he is a nobody. When you think of name players, you don't think of 30-40 pt and less players. Neal and Fleury were there only names, the rest were castoffs.

It's not like people were sitting there, saying, man I can't believe they have Haula! Also, on paper, their D last year, was not a whole lot better than ours. We have a bunch of 6 and 7 D and that is what they have/had.

Not only that, but that is just one example of a good coach improving a less than ideal roster, there are lots over the years, like Ruff in Buffalo.

Neal - 30 goal scorer
Marchessault - 30 goal scorer
Reilly Smith - 20-25 goal scorer, like 50 point winger.

Also, on paper their D wasn't fantastic... but their D also didn't play beyond its means. Fleury also had a fantastic year.

Hell, they had castoffs, but the rules of the expansion draft made it so they actually had a choice of legit talented players. Yes, they had some flukes with Karlsson and Haula going off in a big way, but they took a team that had complimentary skills. It was stated at the time of the draft that it was the most talented expansion team to ever exist.

 

[Oddbob]

Like Ozzy said last night, the third goal was primarily Mantha's fault for not taking the body and skating behind the eventual scorer.
Defensive positioning could have been better last night, but the forward play in the defensive zone created many of the scoring chances.

Was that the goal, where he was off to the right away from the net, while all his teammates were near the net trying to do something?

 

[Oddbob]

Neal - 30 goal scorer
Marchessault - 30 goal scorer
Reilly Smith - 20-25 goal scorer, like 50 point winger.

Also, on paper their D wasn't fantastic... but their D also didn't play beyond its means. Fleury also had a fantastic year.

Hell, they had castoffs, but the rules of the expansion draft made it so they actually had a choice of legit talented players. Yes, they had some flukes with Karlsson and Haula going off in a big way, but they took a team that had complimentary skills. It was stated at the time of the draft that it was the most talented expansion team to ever exist.

That is kind of the point, that their D played so well, could honestly be attributed to coaching, that the entire crew played so well. Also, many of their forwards put up well past their previous best in pts, it wasn't just Karlsson.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Which players are declining? And which of those players can't be attributed to Datsuyk or Z leaving and no longer either getting easier matchups, or better support? And what will a new voice do? Not only is there no elite coaching talent available right now, any coach that is brought in will likely stumble hard with this roster. I honestly could see most of the available coaches come in and do worse with this team, not better.

Fully agreeing with the Shaman. Blashill is not signed beyond this year so I have to imagine that at season's end, if some real progress has not been made with this team, he will be let go and the search will begin for his successor. But, barring getting an elite coach in here, there is nothing to suggest that a new hire will improve the team or develop the kids more successfully, it's just the easiest and most common solution to make it look like you're doing something to fix the team - I think most agree that no true fix will occur with a new coach in place, it would likely happen more as a PR move or to calm the masses than to fix the team for the long term.

It's still early, too many kids are receiving the baptism by fire into the NHL and, to no one's surprise, they are struggling. I'd like to see how things are at mid-season; let the kids learn their way into the league, let them have some time to adjust without needing to shoulder so much responsibility like they have, unfortunately, had to do here in the early stages. The good news is that these kids are raw and young, but many of them are brimming with potential and showing some flashes that speak well for their part in our future - they will benefit from the return of veterans, even less skilled veterans will shelter them from some of the rigors and responsibilities of playing in the NHL. I think that by mid-season Cholowski will be on our top pair even if all are healthy, but, regardless of how impressive he has looked so far, I think it's asking and expecting too much of him to toss him onto the top pair from the get go. I know we're not crazy about our veterans, but let them take the proverbial punches, slings and arrows and shoulder the brunt of the responsibilities for now. When the kids have adjusted to the league and its speed and grind then they can grow into more prominent roles - that might be this season, it might be next, but it's coming.

 

[SCD]

Was that the goal, where he was off to the right away from the net, while all his teammates were near the net trying to do something?

yes, ping ponged off his shoulder.