The Expansion Debate

hockydude5000

Registered User
Jan 2, 2006
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However, don't expect hockey expansion until 2007 at the earliest (most likely much later). When it does, here are the cities I predict will get the first two franchises:

1. Winnipeg- huge hockey demand, new arena, good place to start rivalry with Minnesota, no competition, good choice to put the first expansion franchise of the new NHL.
2. Kansas City- new arena, good place for a St. Louis rivalry, place to grow fanbase, only two pro franchises currently, none indoors, good choice to put the second expansion franchise of the new NHL.
 
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Wetcoaster

Guest
hockydude5000 said:
However, don't expect hockey expansion until 2007 at the earliest (most likely much later). When it does, here are the cities I predict will get the first two franchises:

1. Winnipeg- huge hockey demand, new arena, good place to start rivalry with Minnisota, no competition, good choice to put the first expansion franchise of the new NHL.
2. Kansas City- new arena, good place for a St. Louis rivalry, place to grow fanbase, only two pro franchises currently, none indoors, good choice to put the second expansion franchise of the new NHL.
While I agree that Kansas City has a shot, Winnipeg does not.

The new arena does not meet NHL standards, the population area is too small, there is no corporate sector to speak of and Winnipeg does not "grow" the NHL.
 

Mr BLUEandWHITE

Registered User
Nov 14, 2005
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Toronto
Wetcoaster said:
While I agree that Kansas City has a shot, Winnipeg does not.

The new arena does not meet NHL standards, the population area is too small, there is no corporate sector to speak of and Winnipeg does not "grow" the NHL.

the population is 600, 000 i believe. there is the population i believe thats more then st.Louis and KC.
 

jamiebez

Registered User
Apr 5, 2005
4,025
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Ottawa
Wetcoaster said:
While I agree that Kansas City has a shot, Winnipeg does not.

The new arena does not meet NHL standards, the population area is too small, there is no corporate sector to speak of and Winnipeg does not "grow" the NHL.
The new arena meets "NHL standards" just fine, and the league has confirmed this before the building was even built. This was posted on the old version of the MTS Centre/True North web site.

I'm not going to debate you on the last 2 points, since there are several other threads on that..... ;)
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
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Mr BLUEandWHITE said:
the population is 600, 000 i believe. there is the population i believe thats more then st.Louis and KC.

By actual city population, maybe, but not my Metro Area. Winnipeg has a city population of 671K (5/2001), but a metro area population of only 702K (7/2004) - ie virtually all off the Winnipeg area population is in the city itself.

http://www.citypopulation.de/Canada.html

Compare that to St Louis and KC (and the other relocation derby candidates):

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

City Population (7/2004):

4. Houston, Tex. 2,012,626
29. Las Vegas, Nev. 534,847
30. Portland, Ore. 533,492
31. Oklahoma City, Okla. 528,042
39. Kansas City, Mo. 444,387
NA. St Louis, Mo. - <359K (not in top 50 US Cities)


http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab03.xls

Metro Area Population (4/2000)

10 Houston--Galveston--Brazoria, TX CMSA 4,669,571
18 St. Louis, MO--IL MSA 2,603,607
23 Portland--Salem, OR--WA CMSA 2,265,223
26 Kansas City, MO--KS MSA 1,776,062
32 Las Vegas, NV--AZ MSA 1,563,282
49 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,083,346

The Houston metro area has almost 7 times the population of Winnipeg's, St Louis' almost 4x, Portland over 3x, KC about 2.5x, Vegas over 2x (and growing), and OKC almost 50% more.
 

Bucky_Hoyt

Registered User
Dec 11, 2005
600
46
Singapore
Here's my little essay for the day. I guess those four years in University better be worth something, eh? :teach:

First off, I don't think the NHL will expand again. I say the same for Baseball and Football too. There will likely always be an open pool of cities to receive sports franchises and teams will move back and forth over the decades.

I will spare talks about Winnipeg and Quebec City as I do not believe they have a sound chance of reclaiming NHL teams. Their metro areas are too small to support teams with these kinds of salaries and only Winnipeg has recently built a facility (though it is easily 2000-3000 seats shy of current NHL arena standards). I would rather talk about cities that have arenas with suitable capacities and have metro areas that can realistically support a team.

This does not detract from the loyalty of citizens in Winnipeg or Quebec City to the game of Hockey but the same kind of 'loyalties' exist in Montana, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Northern Michigan; and, there is little or no discussion about franchises being established in those markets due to the logistics of those areas not being viable for the NHL. Sadly, as I would honestly love to see some more Canadian content in the NHL, I feel the same is true of Winnipeg and Quebec City.

I would put Houston on the top of the list as the next city to get an NHL team. KC might have an open building but I will address why I think they won't get the team further down.

In Houston's case, they do have the issue of the Aeros and the possibility of running three franchises in the Toyota Center during the months of September - June. Realistically, it would make sense that the Aeros would move to another city and the NHL would move into Houston. That is basically what happened in Nashville, Atlanta, Minnesota, and Columbus before they were granted NHL teams.

Houston has had professional hockey since the 1970s so I think the argument for 'non-traditional' market is not really that sound. Texas has become a hotbed for hockey, much like the Carolinas have in the last fifteen years. The CHL, AHL, NAHL, and NHL combined for 13 active franchises in the state of Texas. There was also an ECHL team operating in Texas last year.

Houston has the available arena and an active push by its owner (Les Alexander) to acquire another major-league tenant for the Toyota Center. Houston has a suitable population to support all of the 'Big-4' as well as their newly acquired MLS franchise. It's CMA population is approximately 5 million and it is unlikely that TV revenues of the Dallas Stars would be affected by the existence of a Houston team.

I will place Kansas City second mainly due to its available arena and the fact that their ownership has expressed interest in the NHL; however, I think Kansas City has a greater interest in landing an NBA team. Stern has expressed interest in Oklahoma city as the 'forerunner' but he too may be just talking that same lawyer-speak that Bettman has been so well known to do.

In KC's case, they were at one time the headquarters for NCAA Basketball. There is a far longer tradition with 'hoops' there than 'puck.' Besides, Missouri does not have an NBA team. For TV ratings, they'd have the entire state (and possibly the periphery states) watching NBA games. If there's a 2nd NHL team, then the Blues' TV money will be sliced virtually in half (though probably more like 40%).

Also remember that the Kansas City Scouts lasted only two seasons with the NHL when the Kemper Arena was 'state-of-the-art.' I'm not saying that the NHL couldn't fly there but I honestly think that if the ownership of the new Sprint Center could choose, their overwhelming favorite would be to land an NBA team.

Portland I would place third but I still believe they will not get an NHL team before Houston. Their current situation with the Blazers suggests a rather poor outlook if an NHL team were to reside there. Much like the Islanders lease -- were SMG is getting virtually all the revenue generated in the building -- a potential Portland NHL team will suffer tremendously with the current deal in the Rose Garden.

Portland is not unfamiliar with Hockey (it has excellent numbers for its WHL franchise) but unless some major changes were made with the facilities management of the Rose Garden, I doubt any owner would want to throw their money away. Lord knows the trouble that the Blazers, alone, are going through.

I also think that Portland, currently, has a greater interest in landing an MLB franchise. Since Baseball's season runs mostly counter to the NBA season, it is more likely that the team would be successful -- considering that the TV, and ticket competition would be less fierce than say an NHL team with a simultaneous season. There has been a lot of talk between the Florida Marlins ownership and the Mayor of Portland and the Governor of Oregon in recent months. If MLB is too afraid to test the waters in Las Vegas, Portland might be the best spot to move the beleaguered Marlins.

Besides, a lot of the 'talk' of NHL there has died out since the late 90s. Much of that may have been due to the ongoing arena management problems with the Rose Garden or Paul Allen's dissent towards Hockey but there have been no resumed talks about Hockey in Portland beyond internet message boards. Or at least there have not been any recent talks to my knowledge.

Oklahoma City is almost a mirror-image to Kansas City's situation but I will place them 4th due to their current dealings with the NBA.

The advantage of OKC over say KC is that they have no other major sport to compete with and their CHL attendance numbers rival many AHL franchise numbers. There certainly is a strong interest in Hockey in OKC but would they rather opt for the NBA -- especially considering that they are hosting an NBA team now and have been 'promised' as the next descendant of the NBA's expansion/relocation? I think they would.

The Ford Center is state-of-the-art but if you have a choice between the 2nd most popular sport in the US and the 4th (and possibly 5th in some cases, as Soccer is starting to gain popularity) where would you rather go to? It's not to say that the NHL wouldn't work in OKC but a franchise there will almost certainly come under the same level of scrutiny as the likes of Nashville, Carolina, Dallas, Phoenix, Columbus, Anaheim, Miami, and -- up until recently -- Tampa Bay. Though, the same is probably true for every team save Portland from the 'Northernists' perspective.

Would an NHL franchise in OKC be a flavor-of-the-month or could they be long-lasting? Honestly, I don't know enough about the Hockey situation in OKC to speculate. But if they do land an NBA and the NHL lands a team in Houston, I would hope that OKC would be awarded the Aeros or an expansion AHL franchise.

Frankly, I think the NBA is where you will see expansion. It has, in recent years, developed into the 2nd most watched and played sport on Earth. To not have 32 teams (like the NFL) would probably be more detrimental to the league than beneficial. With more players coming from other countries around the globe -- and with the smaller rosters that NBA teams require -- it seems like a no-brainer. I strongly believe we will see 2 more NBA teams in the next 10 years.

If that's the case, my hunch is that KC, OKC, and LV are on the NBA's radar screens. Sacramento and Orlando are having arena issues much like the Penguins and Islanders are having in the NHL. It's not happening with the same volition as the NHL but you WILL hear relocation talk along the same lines for those two franchises in the next five years. The NBA has had far more relocations than it would like to admit but if Sacramento and Orlando don't do anything about their buildings, they're as good as gone.

I also am inclined to believe that LV will either become home to Baseball or Basketball but no other league will want to invest there. I actually think that Vegas would be best suited for Basketball but for some reason I think they're going to land Baseball (probably due to the struggling arena/attendance issues with the Marlins and D-Rays and a preference to relocate into a market with no major-league competition).

These are still hunches but I think there is a strong basis in logic! The next 10 years ought to be very interesting in North America's pro-sports world.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
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Bucky_Hoyt said:
Portland I would place third but I still believe they will not get an NHL team before Houston. Their current situation with the Blazers suggests a rather poor outlook if an NHL team were to reside there. Much like the Islanders lease -- were SMG is getting virtually all the revenue generated in the building -- a potential Portland NHL team will suffer tremendously with the current deal in the Rose Garden.

Portland is not unfamiliar with Hockey (it has excellent numbers for its WHL franchise) but unless some major changes were made with the facilities management of the Rose Garden, I doubt any owner would want to throw their money away. Lord knows the trouble that the Blazers, alone, are going through.

A nice, long, well though out piece. I agree with most of what you said excpet for the Portland situation.

The T-Blazers situation (really bad lease) is one of Paul Allen's own making and should have zero impact on any other lease agreement with an NHL team.

Basically one Paul Allen owned company (the T-Blazers) had a lease with another Paul Allen owned company (Oregon Arena Corporation) which controlled the Rose Garden - most of the ancilliary revenues (Luxury Boxes, Advertising, etc) went to the Arena Corp. Originally it didn't matter, because Paul Allen got the money in either case. Well, Paul Allen's Arena Corp declared bankruptcy to get out from under the onerous construction debt on the Rose Garden, and ownership/control of the Rose Garden passed to a group of creditors/bondholders, who hired Global Spectrum, a subsidiary of Comcast/SMG to manage and operate the Rose Garden. The T-Blazers were left as just tenants in the Rose Garden with a now really bad lease, because all of the revenues, which had previously gone to Oregon Arena Corp, now all went to Global Spectrum and the bondholders.

Global Spectrum is looking to fill the Rose Garden and has extensive connections inside the NHL (Comcast owns the Flyers and Global Spectrum operates the arena where they play) and would probably be able/willing to offer attractive lease terms to any potential Portland NHL ownership group.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
Mr BLUEandWHITE said:
the population is 600, 000 i believe. there is the population i believe thats more then st.Louis and KC.
Here are the figures for the metro populations.

Stats Can sets the metro Winnipeg population at just over 706,900 currently.
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo05a.htm

St. Louis (as of 2004) has a population of 2,639,978 and is on the top 200 best performing large cities in the US list at #151.

Kansas City (as of 2004) has a population of 1,843,550 and is on the top 200 best performing large cities in the US list at #109.
http://bestcities.milkeninstitute.org/bc200.html

Winnipeg is not even close interms of population, demographics or economic performance.

Houston or Kansas City meet the NHL demographics and business models - Winnipeg does not.

Here is what Bill Daly had to say as reported today in the National Post on this subject:
While some NHL teams in the U.S. might have trouble filling their rinks, other cities, such as Houston and Kansas City, Mo., have empty arenas and demographics that might hold greater appeal for the NHL. And there is no owner in sight for an NHL team in Winnipeg, where the Jets lost US$22-million over their last five years in the city.

Bill Daly, the NHL's deputy commissioner, says the league is in no hurry to rubber stamp a move back to Winnipeg as it did with the franchise's transfer 10 years ago.
"Winnipeg was a great NHL market with great fans. And our move out of Winnipeg was due to a variety of circumstances that may no longer exist," Daly wrote in an e-mail yesterday. "Having said that, we remain absolutely committed to the 30 NHL markets in which our clubs are now operating.

"We have no interest in having to relocate an existing franchise and we have no intention of further expanding in the foreseeable future."
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/sports/story.html?id=d369a582-4ba9-47d3-9bab-360c50cfb00e&k=52028

The chances of Winnipeg getting an NHL franchise (expansion or relocation) is slim and none. And slim has left the building.
 
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Wetcoaster

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jamiebez said:
The new arena meets "NHL standards" just fine, and the league has confirmed this before the building was even built. This was posted on the old version of the MTS Centre/True North web site.

I'm not going to debate you on the last 2 points, since there are several other threads on that..... ;)
No the arena does not meet NHL minimums for expansion. The NHL has NEVER said the MTS Centre is NHL worthy and numerous people have pointed out that it does not meet NHL standards.

The President of the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce was quoted as confirming that the MTS Centre did not meet NHL standards and that it would not be suitable for an NHL bid.

The last NHL expansion guidelines required an arena with a minimum of 18,000 seats and more luxury suites and corporate amenties than the MTS Centre has.

Pretty hard to debate population and demographics the NHL is looking for and Winnipeg does not have the econnomic base or performance nor the corporate sector. Edmonton and Calgary are miles ahead of Winnipeg and they have struggled.

The return of the NHL to Winnipeg is a fantasy - even if you could find an owner idiotic enough and with deep enough pockets to finance a losing operation.

Winnipeg does nothing for the NHL that it does not already have.
 

Newfie John

Hall of Famer
Jul 3, 2005
7,203
0
WC is right. There are other cities who could probably support an NHL franchise better. That said, Winnipeg could want it more(whether thats true or not I don't know, but I haven't heard any outcries from KC). Even if Winnipeg wanted it more, other cities have the population, economic backround and demographics to make the city look good to move to.

I'd love to see another canadian team though. Eklund is reporting a group from Toronto wants to take the Pens and move them to Toronto. Quite unsubstantiated but worth noting.
 

HansH

Unwelcome Spectre
Feb 2, 2005
5,294
482
San Diego
www.mib.org
jamiebez said:
The new arena meets "NHL standards" just fine, and the league has confirmed this before the building was even built. This was posted on the old version of the MTS Centre/True North web site.

I'm not going to debate you on the last 2 points, since there are several other threads on that..... ;)
So, we should never ever question the viability of any team with attendance slightly below 15,000? So, Phoenix, Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville, Anaheim -- not a single one of those should EVER be challenged as to viability? Cause they're pulling numbers that are in the range that the MAX attendance, every single night, every single year, would pull in Winnipeg. THOSE are the "NHL Standards" that the new arena does not match -- and that's not going to change no matter how much Winnipeggers stick their fingers in their ears and chant "I can't HEEEEEAR you!!!".
 

AdmiralPred

Registered User
Jun 9, 2005
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HansH said:
So, we should never ever question the viability of any team with attendance slightly below 15,000? So, Phoenix, Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville, Anaheim -- not a single one of those should EVER be challenged as to viability? Cause they're pulling numbers that are in the range that the MAX attendance, every single night, every single year, would pull in Winnipeg. THOSE are the "NHL Standards" that the new arena does not match -- and that's not going to change no matter how much Winnipeggers stick their fingers in their ears and chant "I can't HEEEEEAR you!!!".
Very nice post, but I think his fingers are in his ears so he may not "hear" you.
 

jamiebez

Registered User
Apr 5, 2005
4,025
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Ottawa
Wetcoaster said:
The last NHL expansion guidelines required an arena with a minimum of 18,000 seats and more luxury suites and corporate amenties than the MTS Centre has.
Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Entertainment_Center

17,523 for hockey.

Oklahoma's bid was also a finalist in the 1997 expansion round, and their planned arena was only 17,500 as well. Never mind the 8 franchises who currently play in arenas smaller than 18,000.

The NHL stated that the size of the building would not preclude Winnipeg from consideration. Again, this was stated in the FAQ section of the True North web site before the arena site was even prepped for construction.

Wetcoaster said:
No the arena does not meet NHL minimums for expansion. The NHL has NEVER said the MTS Centre is NHL worthy and numerous people have pointed out that it does not meet NHL standards.

The President of the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce was quoted as confirming that the MTS Centre did not meet NHL standards and that it would not be suitable for an NHL bid.
The only "numerous people" that I've heard have a problem with it are on this message board. I have yet to see a source that says so outside these pages. If you can produce such a statement made by someone in the NHL, I'd love to see it.

Now, in fairness, I can no longer produce a source for my claim, either, so it comes down to opinion vs. opinion (like it always does on this subject)

Again, if you want to debate that Winnipeg can't generate sufficient revenue to survive in the NHL, that's fine. I don't agree, but you're welcome to your opinion. But stating that some standard exists in the NHL that says "thou shalt have 18,000 seats" is untrue, until you can show me a definitive source that says otherwise, past or present.
 

jamiebez

Registered User
Apr 5, 2005
4,025
327
Ottawa
HansH said:
So, we should never ever question the viability of any team with attendance slightly below 15,000? So, Phoenix, Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville, Anaheim -- not a single one of those should EVER be challenged as to viability? Cause they're pulling numbers that are in the range that the MAX attendance, every single night, every single year, would pull in Winnipeg. THOSE are the "NHL Standards" that the new arena does not match -- and that's not going to change no matter how much Winnipeggers stick their fingers in their ears and chant "I can't HEEEEEAR you!!!".
Actually, I'm an Ottawan, not a Winnipegger ;)

As I said above, if you want to question the viability of Winnipeg (or ANY city) as an NHL market, that's fine. You have the right to that opinion.

My issue is stating that an NHL standard exists that expressly prohibits an NHL team from playing in a 15,000 seat arena. I have yet to see any evidence of this.
 

jamiebez

Registered User
Apr 5, 2005
4,025
327
Ottawa
Wetcoaster said:
The President of the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce was quoted as confirming that the MTS Centre did not meet NHL standards and that it would not be suitable for an NHL bid.
Just found this:
http://www.winnipegsun.com/Sports/Hockey/2006/01/20/1402905-sun.html

The Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce is willing to "try to mobilize the private sector around an initiative like this," said president Dave Angus, though he added the feasibility must be certain.

"There's huge interest in looking at it," Angus said. "We're a hockey city, and it's a sport that will draw some investment and draw attendance."


Doesn't sound like a guy who thinks the MTS Centre "would not be suitable for an NHL bid".
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
jamiebez said:
Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Entertainment_Center

17,523 for hockey.

Oklahoma's bid was also a finalist in the 1997 expansion round, and their planned arena was only 17,500 as well. Never mind the 8 franchises who currently play in arenas smaller than 18,000.

The NHL stated that the size of the building would not preclude Winnipeg from consideration. Again, this was stated in the FAQ section of the True North web site before the arena site was even prepped for construction.


The only "numerous people" that I've heard have a problem with it are on this message board. I have yet to see a source that says so outside these pages. If you can produce such a statement made by someone in the NHL, I'd love to see it.

Now, in fairness, I can no longer produce a source for my claim, either, so it comes down to opinion vs. opinion (like it always does on this subject)

Again, if you want to debate that Winnipeg can't generate sufficient revenue to survive in the NHL, that's fine. I don't agree, but you're welcome to your opinion. But stating that some standard exists in the NHL that says "thou shalt have 18,000 seats" is untrue, until you can show me a definitive source that says otherwise, past or present.
Oklahoma City's Ford Center arena seats 18,036 for hockey with 56 suites. It has done well with the re-located NO Hornets of the NBA and has jumped to the top of the NBA list according to David Stern.
http://www.okfordcenter.com/arenainfo_fastfacts.html

The Gaylord Center has 70 suites and seating for an additional 1850 club seats for hockey so it is well over the minimum.
http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/NashvillePredators/

Atlanta's Philips Arena has seating for 18,750 with 92 suites and 2,100 club seats.
http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/AtlantaThrashers/index.htm

Columbus' Nationwide arena has 18,138 seating with 78 Suites and 3,200 club seats.
http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/ColumbusBlueJackets/index.htm

Minnesota's Xcel Energy Center has 18,834 for hockey, 64 suites and
2,800 club seats.
http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/MinnesotaWild/index.htm

Kansas City's new Sprint Center to open 2007 will seat 18,500 and there are 72 suites and it has good NHL connections through Phil Anschutz (LA Kings owner). 60 of the 72 luxury boxes have already sold at a cost of $110,000 to $115,000.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/13127100.htm

Houston's Toyota Center seats 17,800 for hockey with 83 suites and 2,900 club seats.
http://www.houstontoyotacenter.com/about/atozguide.php


The NHL guidelines were contained in the expansion package available to all bidders and specified 18,000 seating but that was inclusive of suites. The MTS Centre is not close to the other NHL standard arenas.

To be fair the 18,000 is a guideline and could be fudged IF a city topped out on other criteria such as population, television market, demographics, economy and corporate sector. Winnipeg would score at the bottom on those criteria.

Winnipeg does nothing to further the NHL's vision of where it wants to go.

The SportsNet Hockey Central panel (Dreger, Kelley and Kypreos) discussed the return of the NHL to Winnipeg last night noted that the MTS Center does not meet NHL criteria and that Winnipeg does scores poorly the other criteria. All agreed that if fan passion were a major criteria then Winnipeg would score well on that but it is not a factor.

There is also a problem of ownership in Winnipeg. If you look at the last round of expansion there were some very serious players involved who did not get franchises.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
jamiebez said:
Just found this:
http://www.winnipegsun.com/Sports/Hockey/2006/01/20/1402905-sun.html

The Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce is willing to "try to mobilize the private sector around an initiative like this," said president Dave Angus, though he added the feasibility must be certain.

"There's huge interest in looking at it," Angus said. "We're a hockey city, and it's a sport that will draw some investment and draw attendance."


Doesn't sound like a guy who thinks the MTS Centre "would not be suitable for an NHL bid".
Then he has done a 180 degree turn because I posted his comments during the lockout where he said the opposite. in late December 2004.

A new arena and record attendance figures for the Manitoba Moose may be great news for Winnipeg hockey fans but it's not enough to secure the return of an NHL franchise to the city, says Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce president Dave Angus. "It's great for the Moose and we should celebrate the fact they are a very successful franchise ... but I think we have a long way to go and a lot of things have to change for us to be in a position to attract an NHL franchise," Angus said
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/Sports/2004/12/23/794449-sun.html

The fact remains that the MTS Center does not match up to the NHL guidelines and suffers in comparison to the recent expansion awards and available arenas in US cities which is bettman's preferred market.

His earlier comments are more in line with the relaity of the situation IMHO.
 

Default101

Guest
add Hamlton in there, if there is expantion one of the teams would go to Canada, wether it be Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec or Halifax one of them would get a team.
 

jamiebez

Registered User
Apr 5, 2005
4,025
327
Ottawa
Wetcoaster said:
Then he has done a 180 degree turn because I posted his comments during the lockout where he said the opposite. in late December 2004.

Evidently, since my quote was from today's Winnipeg Sun. A lot changed in those 13 months.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
jamiebez said:
Evidently, since my quote was from today's Winnipeg Sun. A lot changed in those 13 months.
However the reality is Winnipeg is not getting the NHL back at anytime in the foreseeable future.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
Ry-Dogg said:
add Hamlton in there, if there is expantion one of the teams would go to Canada, wether it be Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec or Halifax one of them would get a team.
Not going to happen.

As Glen Sather said if the NHL was to be in Canada with more teams it would already be here.

Hamilton would be blocked by Toronto and Buffalo as has happened in the past.

Halifax, Quebec City and Winnipeg do not make sense from a population, TV market, demograhic, economic or corporate sector perspective. There are much more attractive options in the US (Houston, Kansas City, Oklahoma City).
 

Hawker14

Registered User
Oct 27, 2004
3,084
0
Wetcoaster said:
However the reality is Winnipeg is not getting the NHL back at anytime in the foreseeable future.

if the mts centre is so inadequate, why does it gross better than gm place for non-hockey related events ?
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
hawker14 said:
if the mts centre is so inadequate, why does it gross better than gm place for non-hockey related events ?
And this relates to how the MTS does not meet NHL guidleines for arenas exactly how?

I have never seen such a report and since GM Place is a privately owned arena - how would anyone know this?
 

Hawker14

Registered User
Oct 27, 2004
3,084
0
Wetcoaster said:
And this relates to how the MTS does not meet NHL guidleines for arenas exactly how?

I have never seen such a report and since GM Place is a privately owned arena - how would anyone know this?

good question. i would presume because it's pollstar's business to know.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
hawker14 said:
good question. i would presume because it's pollstar's business to know.
Who????

Orca Bay (owner of GM Place and the Canucks) keeps its financial information private.
 

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