Salary Cap: The Endless Speculation Edition

[Peat]

Last thread is way over 1k, so lets continue here - last thread is currently open, so you can quote posts from there to keep things going.

Click to read more...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Changing the topic from the pointless Murray debate (because we don't know what he wants), let's say you have $6 million and need both a top-6 W and a top-4 D. How do you use that money?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Irresponsibly?

 

[Peat]

Changing the topic from the pointless Murray debate (because we don't know what he wants), let's say you have $6 million and need both a top-6 W and a top-4 D. How do you use that money?

Cheating, but I'm selling off some non top-6ers for more cap to do both properly.

If I can't... chuck it all at the top 4-D if needs be, rely on our Cs ability to carry not-great players and the greater availability of rental wingers to mask the lack of quality winger.

edit: Of course, I'm assuming equal need, which is unlikely imo. We have a lot more wingers who might step up than dmen.

 

[Sideline]

Irresponsibly?

Found JR's HF burner account.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Changing the topic from the pointless Murray debate (because we don't know what he wants), let's say you have $6 million and need both a top-6 W and a top-4 D. How do you use that money?

are we talking about replacing Schultz vs replacing Galchenyuk basically? I think Schultz clearly leaves the more important hole to fill. The speed at forward this year is awesome, but I think Marino giving us 3 lines worth of puck movement from the back-end is far more important to how we are trying to play. Lose Schultz and it's back to 2. I have a lot more faith in our speedy wings buzzing around than I do filling a puck moving D spot from within.

 

[Peat]

are we talking about replacing Schultz vs replacing Galchenyuk basically? I think Schultz clearly leaves the more important hole to fill. The speed at forward this year is awesome, but I think Marino giving us 3 lines worth of puck movement from the back-end is far more important to how we are trying to play. Lose Schultz and it's back to 2. I have a lot more faith in our speedy wings buzzing around than I do filling a puck moving D spot from within.

Yup. I mean...

Internal PMD/Offensive dmen possibilities - Getting more out of Pettersson, sudden unexpected 1 year growths to being LD Marino from POJ/Almari, Addison being ready right out of junior... that's it right? After Addison the scenarios with Phillips/Reilly aren't even realistic enough to consider yet?

Internal top 6 wing possibilities - McCann/Kahun (don't think he'd mesh with Geno but whatevs)/Lafferty/ZAR (COME AT ME)/sudden unexpected 1 year growths from AJ or Miletec/put Horny back there/Hallander or Poulin are ready right after this year.

The dman pipeline is stronger than it was, but wing is still where the organisational strength is at.

Incidentally, am I being too premature to talk about Poulin maybe leaving junior a year early? I feel like I am, but at the same time I feel like he's shown some accelerated development so far in the Q and is on a trajectory where it becomes a possibility - particularly if Capmageddon turns our forward depth from obscene to merely rather good. Obviously he'd have to sustain what he's doing which isn't easy.

 

[madinsomniac]

I see the current roster agenda as a wait and see situation right now

Issues:
1. Is gally the top six finisher we need... its cool if a utility guy like simon and a speed guy who does not have a great shot round out the top six, but we need another true finisher on this team besides jake...

This is definitely a wait and see due to the small sample size to date

2. Is JJ a long term positive... or is he going to become a liability again... he is well on his way to accruing positive value again... at that point a decision will have to be made based on his utility value vs who is available to replace him

Id want more data to make a decision and his play is good enough to warrant the wait and see approach

3. Is Shultz a guy you deal now or do you hold onto him for the playoffs...

Again this has to have a lot of different angles looked at. With potential for injuries always rampant, unless a beneficial time sensitive trade option comes up, this is certainly something to wait for closer to the deadline

All in all i just don’t think any pressing issues are on the roster right now

 

[Empoleon8771]

are we talking about replacing Schultz vs replacing Galchenyuk basically? I think Schultz clearly leaves the more important hole to fill. The speed at forward this year is awesome, but I think Marino giving us 3 lines worth of puck movement from the back-end is far more important to how we are trying to play. Lose Schultz and it's back to 2. I have a lot more faith in our speedy wings buzzing around than I do filling a puck moving D spot from within.

Not technically, but essentially. The question is would you rather replace Galchenyuk as Malkin's LW or replace Schultz as the #3D, but in D's case, it doesn't necessarily mean "2nd pair RD". It can be a 2nd pair LD to push Pettersson to the 3rd pair or a 2nd pair RD to push Marino to the 3rd pair.

I think a better way to look at it is which middle-6 and bottom-4 would you prefer:

McCann-Malkin-Rust
Kahun-Blueger-Hornqvist

Pettersson-#3D or #3D-Marino
Riikola-Marino or Pettersson-Riikola

or

2LW-Malkin-Rust
Kahun-McCann-Hornqvist

Pettersson-Marino
Probably JJ-Riikola

 

[The Old Master]

I see the current roster agenda as a wait and see situation.

All in all i just don’t think any pressing issues are on the roster right now

the biggest one right now is trying def-rent things seeing what/who works best. instead of trying the same thing over and over again hoping for def-rent results. then and only then can we make informed decisions on who and what we need. imo

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

are we talking about replacing Schultz vs replacing Galchenyuk basically? I think Schultz clearly leaves the more important hole to fill. The speed at forward this year is awesome, but I think Marino giving us 3 lines worth of puck movement from the back-end is far more important to how we are trying to play. Lose Schultz and it's back to 2. I have a lot more faith in our speedy wings buzzing around than I do filling a puck moving D spot from within.

I don't know if there's a $6 million winger who can do what we need from him to be that upgrade (ie. someone who can consistently pick the corners and snipe top shelf rather than play whack-a-mole with the goalie's leg pads), so I'd probably opt for a top four mobile blueliner instead because I think you can probably find one in that price range.

If we *could* find that winger, I think I'd rather spend the money on him and make due with what we have on defense since I think finding Geno his "Guentzel" would put us closer to being a Cup contender than the current wingers with Geno and an upgrade on Schultz. I just don't know if that winger's out there for $6 million or less.

 

[Andy99]

you can end the speculation...ain’t nothin’ happening...lol

 

[NMK11]

Not technically, but essentially. The question is would you rather replace Galchenyuk as Malkin's LW or replace Schultz as the #3D, but in D's case, it doesn't necessarily mean "2nd pair RD". It can be a 2nd pair LD to push Pettersson to the 3rd pair or a 2nd pair RD to push Marino to the 3rd pair.

I think a better way to look at it is which middle-6 and bottom-4 would you prefer:

McCann-Malkin-Rust
Kahun-Blueger-Hornqvist

Pettersson-#3D or #3D-Marino
Riikola-Marino or Pettersson-Riikola

or

2LW-Malkin-Rust
Kahun-McCann-Hornqvist

Pettersson-Marino
Probably JJ-Riikola

I think for option 1 the middle 6 looks like it could work, although it would probably drive us crazy with some cold spells. That bottom 4 looks great though.

Option two, the proper LW would be awesome, but that bottom 4 looks iffy.

So option 1, a 3D.

 

[EightyOne]

WTF IS WITH THE CONGRATS YOU WIN BROWSER HIJACK ADS ON THIS f***ING MOBILE SITE?

Pens need a legit complimentary, finishing winger more than another effective defenseman

So..spend the 6 on a Top6 W

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

you can end the speculation...ain’t nothin’ happening...lol

What moment had Johnson, Blueger and Guentzel on the ice together celebrating a goal, PK or PP unit 2? Weird mix of players right there, 3rd/4th line center, 1st line winger and a 7th defenseman

 

[Turin]

you can end the speculation...ain’t nothin’ happening...lol

Good call. This team might need a deadline move for depth but they’re gelling nicely.

 

[Riptide]

He said he would trade Murray over a 600k difference in contracts.

*Citation needed*

The Penguins would be better off trading Murray than paying him 10% of the cap.

10% of the cap would be 8.15m.

I have him at around $7 million on a long-term deal, and I'd be comfortable with that number. Anything over $7.5 million makes me uncomfortable, and anything above $8 million makes him a trade candidate. I personally don't see an argument for him getting over $7.5 million, so I think this scenario isn't all that likely.

If 7.5m makes you uncomfortable and 8-8.15m is someone you trade... certainly looks like 600k seems to be the number at which point you're trading Murray.

 

[wej20]

I don't know if there's a $6 million winger who can do what we need from him to be that upgrade (ie. someone who can consistently pick the corners and snipe top shelf rather than play whack-a-mole with the goalie's leg pads), so I'd probably opt for a top four mobile blueliner instead because I think you can probably find one in that price range.

If we *could* find that winger, I think I'd rather spend the money on him and make due with what we have on defense since I think finding Geno his "Guentzel" would put us closer to being a Cup contender than the current wingers with Geno and an upgrade on Schultz. I just don't know if that winger's out there for $6 million or less.

I think the only Free Agent winger who fits your description is Mike Hoffman, he's 30 and already has a caphit of 5.187m so I'd expect he's looking at minimum of $6.5/7 million this summer for at least 4 years but probably 5.

 

[Riptide]

I see the current roster agenda as a wait and see situation right now

Issues:
2. Is JJ a long term positive... or is he going to become a liability again... he is well on his way to accruing positive value again... at that point a decision will have to be made based on his utility value vs who is available to replace him

Id want more data to make a decision and his play is good enough to warrant the wait and see approach

Due to our cap issues for next summer, you trade him before finding out if this is a problem or not. You can find someone who could replace JJ for less than 3 x 3.25m (8.25m in real dollars by this summer). You don't even need to go to the high end of the spectrum... Just getting someone like Hamhuis would fill that role. I'd rather aim higher then that, but the point is there's a lot of cheaper options available to fill that role, and I'd rather be spending most of that money elsewhere in the lineup (JSs new deal (or his replacement), etc). JJ isn't and never was a need for us. There's aspects to his game that I like, but none of them even remotely close enough to pay him 3.25m for another 3 seasons.

That said, I suspect that the JJ we'll see will be the one more like this season then last seasons. I'd still trade him, but I don't think we'll see him revert to what he was last season this season. But beyond that who knows. You're depending on him not regressing due to age, injuries or a change in partners or systems - and that's not a bet I'd be willing to take.

 

[Riptide]

I think the only Free Agent winger who fits your description is Mike Hoffman, he's 30 and already has a caphit of 5.187m so I'd expect he's looking at minimum of $6.5/7 million this summer for at least 4 years but probably 5.

Shouldn't really be a surprise. He scored 36g/70pts last season and so far is on pace for 35g/60pts this season. But as someone who would be 31 early in the 20/21 season, I don't think he's going to get a massive contract - but I also do not think that he's someone we could realistically get at a cap hit we'd be comfortable with.

 

[wej20]

Shouldn't really be a surprise. He scored 36g/70pts last season and so far is on pace for 35g/60pts this season. But as someone who would be 31 early in the 20/21 season, I don't think he's going to get a massive contract - but I also do not think that he's someone we could realistically get at a cap hit we'd be comfortable with.

If I was his agent I'd be looking for the Mats Zuccarello deal (5 years @ 6 million) as the starting point. He's probably competing to be the 2nd most enticing free agent forward this summer against Granlund and Kreider (Taylor Hall is obviously streets ahead).

 

[Peat]

Imo, it makes more sense to think trade for filling out holes than FA next summer. We won't be short of assets to pay for trades, but will be short of cap space. That says trade to me.

you can end the speculation...ain’t nothin’ happening...lol

Cynics translation: "Stop trying lowball offers for my sweet NHLer surplus and make some offers that help me".

Remember - never believe something until it's officially denied

 

[wej20]

Imo, it makes more sense to think trade for filling out holes than FA next summer. We won't be short of assets to pay for trades, but will be short of cap space. That says trade to me.

Yep, think you're right and JR loves to make a move. Simon, Kahun and McCann will all be RFAs due raises so I assume we'll see some of them move on, plus Bjugstad and Rust who could also be moved on. Heck if Jarry has a good year then maybe he gets a little value (not that he'd save us much cap space or bring in a huge haul).

Can we lock up Petterrson on 1st January? would be great to get him locked in for 4/5 years for less than Dumo.

 

[molon labe]

Geno could really benefit from another big body on his line. He doesn't mesh as well with midgets like Sid does...they're just different guys. Absolute shame we didn't go for JT Miller when it was discussed - would have looked fantastic on Geno's wing.

 

[Shady Machine]

Not technically, but essentially. The question is would you rather replace Galchenyuk as Malkin's LW or replace Schultz as the #3D, but in D's case, it doesn't necessarily mean "2nd pair RD". It can be a 2nd pair LD to push Pettersson to the 3rd pair or a 2nd pair RD to push Marino to the 3rd pair.

I think a better way to look at it is which middle-6 and bottom-4 would you prefer:

McCann-Malkin-Rust
Kahun-Blueger-Hornqvist

Pettersson-#3D or #3D-Marino
Riikola-Marino or Pettersson-Riikola

or

2LW-Malkin-Rust
Kahun-McCann-Hornqvist

Pettersson-Marino
Probably JJ-Riikola

The first but depends on the names. Geno with 2 speedy responsible wingers that can finish, even if not ideal top 6ers + legit 2nd pairing that can get him the puck and play int he Ozone is greater than a more dynamic winger with Geno and lesser D pairings.

That said, Marino is looking good so I probably need more time and would need to know who is available.