Post-Game Talk (GBU): The Eichel, The Good, Bad, and Ugly - Sabres vs Bruins

[sincerity0]

Not a bad road trip for Dahlin either, at least in terms of generating more goals than he was on against. 1-4-5 in two games isn't too shabby for anyone, let alone on this offensively starved team.

Only player with a positive shot differential at 5v5 both games. Considering Buffalo got pretty badly outshot both games that is a very impressive stat.

 

[Deleted member 27798]

CF 5v5

Eichel 15-14 51.72%
Dahlin 20-11 64.52%

Not much of a fancy stats guy. Could you give me a quick summary of what this stat represents?

 

[OkimLom]

Not much of a fancy stats guy. Could you give me a quick summary of what this stat represents?

In short:
Things happening FOR said guy when is on the ice vs things happening AGAINST said guy when he's on the ice

 

[Gabrielor]

Not much of a fancy stats guy. Could you give me a quick summary of what this stat represents?

Eiche/Dahlin were on the ice for 15/20 shots or shot attempts for at 5v5, and 14/11 shots or shot attempted against.

Above 50% is where you want to be, and both have largely been this season.

 

[Deleted member 27798]

Eiche/Dahlin were on the ice for 15/20 shots or shot attempts for at 5v5, and 14/11 shots or shot attempted against.

Above 50% is where you want to be, and both have largely been this season.

Thx.

 

[dortt]

CF is by far the worst and most meaningless advanced stat.

Eichel attempting a shot from his own blue line is a positive, similarly to someone doing the same on the other team is a negative. Fenwick is no better though it does exclude blocked shots

A Fenwick only from the slot would be a far better representation

 

[Tatanka]

Thats unfortunate. If you don't see his above average (enthusiastic) board play, obviously top notch shot, ridiculous hands combined with the big frame and skating ability, I'm happy to disagree. But when you factor in the fact that he doesn't lack hockey sense, I have to admit I don't understand how one wouldn't see his raging potential.

It's less about agreement and more about understanding. Do you disagree with my analysis or another factor?

Tage has the hockey sense of a 2x4. He is a one trick pony and plays like he is the only player on the ice offensively. Now if he had an iota of awareness he might make a 3rd liner someday. His enthusiasm as you put it is worthless in that he'll lose 9/10 . Before you assail someone's hockey acumen look at your own because you suck as a talent evaluator.

 

[GellMann]

Tage has the hockey sense of a 2x4. He is a one trick pony and plays like he is the only player on the ice offensively. Now if he had an iota of awareness he might make a 3rd liner someday. His enthusiasm as you put it is worthless in that he'll lose 9/10 . Before you assail someone's hockey acumen look at your own because you suck as a talent evaluator.

Agreed. Tage is downright bad, and any stat or metric or watching of him shows it plainly. That doesn't mean he'll stay bad.

If I see one more twirl-in-place as he searches for the puck in his feet/slightly behind him, flat-footed, while the other team grabs it and skates off for a dangerous chance, I will lose the rest of my hair.

 

[hizzoner]

I see Tage as a damn fine prospect with all the tools to be a decent top 6 or very good top 9 F. If anyone thought we were getting anything other than work in progress I understand the malaise. But Tage has shown enough - just develop and grow into your body!

 

[Reddawg]

I see Tage as a damn fine prospect with all the tools to be a decent top 6 or very good top 9 F. If anyone thought we were getting anything other than work in progress I understand the malaise. But Tage has shown enough - just develop and grow into your body!

That's how I feel. I see a very good hockey player in progress, it's going to take coaching, experience, and a lot of hard work to bring out the best of him. There's absolutely no reason to bail on a kid who just turned 21 years old and hasn't even played a combined full season of NHL action yet.

Improvement is all we need from him right now. Just keep learning and growing day by day, and eventually he'll reach some portion of his full potential.

 

[sabremike]

Agreed. Tage is downright bad, and any stat or metric or watching of him shows it plainly. That doesn't mean he'll stay bad.

If I see one more twirl-in-place as he searches for the puck in his feet/slightly behind him, flat-footed, while the other team grabs it and skates off for a dangerous chance, I will lose the rest of my hair.

The thing with him is that the athletic gifts are absolutely there but his decision making and ability to think the game are both really terrible. It feels like he makes the wrong play and wrong decision like 90% of the time. All the talent in the world means nothing if you constantly make mental mistakes.

 

[Tatanka]

Tage should be earning a spot in Roch like Pilut did. He was given a roster spot over others who showed more in camp and pre season, so it looks like we got something in the trade. We got a pick, two bad contracts and a project. He can develop for sure, but it should be in the AHL not the big club.

 

[DJN21]

Tage should be earning a spot in Roch like Pilut did. He was given a roster spot over others who showed more in camp and pre season, so it looks like we got something in the trade. We got a pick, two bad contracts and a project. He can develop for sure, but it should be in the AHL not the big club.

Housely and company must see something in this kid to warrant this prolonged nhl visit. I'll trust them for now. But to our eyes yes he's clearly over his head.

 

[Reddawg]

Tage should be earning a spot in Roch like Pilut did. He was given a roster spot over others who showed more in camp and pre season, so it looks like we got something in the trade. We got a pick, two bad contracts and a project. He can develop for sure, but it should be in the AHL not the big club.

I honestly don't see the difference it makes. If Nylander had stayed up and Thompson was down in the AHL tearing it up, we'd all be clamoring for his promotion and saying Nylander needs more time in the minors. Clamoring is something we do quite a lot of around here.

 

[Tatanka]

Se

I honestly don't see the difference it makes. If Nylander had stayed up and Thompson was down in the AHL tearing it up, we'd all be clamoring for his promotion and saying Nylander needs more time in the minors. Clamoring is something we do quite a lot of around here.[/QUOTE

A team bereft in middle 6 scoring could possibly use the guy who was leading the AHL in scoring, possibly? TT doesn't do enough with the other players on the ice. He is also terrible in his own zone.

 

[Reddawg]

I have no idea who you're talking about when you say "leading the AHL in scoring"...we don't have anyone even in the top 20 in AHL scoring. There's literally no one clawing at his spot in the lineup right now. If there was, they would have it as he hasn't been that impressive so far. Not that anyone else in our middle six has.

 

[pf8363]

CF is by far the worst and most meaningless advanced stat.

Eichel attempting a shot from his own blue line is a positive, similarly to someone doing the same on the other team is a negative. Fenwick is no better though it does exclude blocked shots

A Fenwick only from the slot would be a far better representation

Agreed, corsi is outdated and lots of actual advanced stats people feel it is poor as well. Unfortunately a lot of people caught on during the initial wave and haven't come to this realization yet (i.e. Mike Schopp). High Danger Scoring Chance % and xGF% are much better predictive stats

 

[JThorne]

The thing with him is that the athletic gifts are absolutely there but his decision making and ability to think the game are both really terrible. It feels like he makes the wrong play and wrong decision like 90% of the time. All the talent in the world means nothing if you constantly make mental mistakes.

To be fair, everyone on the team was making mental mistakes with Housley as the coach in their first year with him. Not saying it IS, but it could be the system. Partly.

 

[Dreakon13]

Tage should be earning a spot in Roch like Pilut did. He was given a roster spot over others who showed more in camp and pre season, so it looks like we got something in the trade.

What're you talking about? Thompson looked great in camp/preseason and everyone agreed he should stay up, along with Nylander. Nylander got sent down because (IMO) he had more history with the club of slubbing off, which got him benched in the AHL playoffs prior, and thus more to prove. Olofsson and Pilut likely didn't get the edge because they had zero NA pro experience and age/talent aside, they wanted to ease them in... which is fair.

I agree he probably should've gotten sent to the AHL once he and the team realized he was in over his head... but to claim he only made the team out of camp because of optics is ridiculous. He was up there with the rest of them.

 

[SabresSharks]

For whatever reason, Tage appears to have stuck with the big club, when it was quite obvious earlier in the season that he was totally lost, and would be better served by being in Rochester. My glass-half-full take is that he's become a much better player in just a few weeks. We should be content with that for now.

Seriously, I think about all the unexpected positives we should be celebrating - Eichel's all-star level play and the strong goaltending and Phil starting to figure things out and the (mostly) healthy roster and improvements in Bogo and McCabe and our budding all-world, baby-face d-man and the incredible comebacks and OT wins and our division-leading AHL team flush with legit prospects - and I'm pretty damn happy. Then I look at the standings here in mid-December in the premier division in the league, and I can barely believe what I see.

Eeyores, can you stop griping about Tage for a bit, and join the party? First round is on me.

 

[MacOfNiagara]

If the team keeps this up he's going to win the Jack Adams in a walk.

I like his system a lot, although it's not a completely unique approach, but unique for us at least. High shot mentality, two on the forecheck, quick short passes, 5 man unit, beat the first checker into our zone with a quick pass, play with speed. Good formula.

 

[Tatanka]

What're you talking about? Thompson looked great in camp/preseason and everyone agreed he should stay up, along with Nylander. Nylander got sent down because (IMO) he had more history with the club of slubbing off, which got him benched in the AHL playoffs prior, and thus more to prove. Olofsson and Pilut likely didn't get the edge because they had zero NA pro experience and age/talent aside, they wanted to ease them in... which is fair.

I agree he probably should've gotten sent to the AHL once he and the team realized he was in over his head... but to claim he only made the team out of camp because of optics is ridiculous. He was up there with the rest of them.

No you agreed. He looked like arse. Exactly what we see now. One trick pony. Nylander was better. Far better. And history has nothing to do with it. At that time Nylander was better and addressed the issue of engagement. Thompson is here because otherwise it looked like Botts got hosed in the trade. And I don’t care about the value thing. The chemistry seems better and they are winning. But Thompson does not have an NHL game yet and should be developing it in the A. He is a liability defensively and once these teams see him a second time that toe drag will get him killed.

 

[brian_griffin]

I'll bring the Grape Flavor-Aid.

I too was thinking Jonestown in Guyana. But that won't work, because they used cyanide there. Clearly, a Jacktown cult would use strychNine.

I think we need more scoring from our middle six, but think about this: The Sabres were a collective -484 last year (sum of all the +/-). Scaled back to 34 games that is -200. This year the team after 34 games is +12. So they're not scoring as much as we'd like, but they're also not allowing a bunch of goals either.

I really don't understand your math inference - especially the bolded - and I've never seen aggregated team +/- used to infer anything. Do you understand +/- are only given for even-strength and shorthanded situations, not for pp goals? But, my problem in understanding is not your problem!!

I like to look at goal differential. Last year over 82 games the Sabres were a league-worst -81, essentially -1 gpg. This year they are 10th in the league in goal differential at +7. In general, at season's end, the positive goal-differential teams make the playoffs and the negative goal differential teams don't. With (generally) a couple exceptions each year.

Their goal differential ranking to date (10th) seems more indicative of their league ranking than their points standing (5th).

BUF would project to finish the season at about a +16 or so. Most years that would would qualify for the playoffs, likely as a 3-seed or a wild card.

Hilarious ! hehe

Welcome!!! I see you joined a few years ago, but rarely post. (You should post more.) Marchand's beak is a running gag on the Sabres board.

I like his system a lot, although it's not a completely unique approach, but unique for us at least. High shot mentality, two on the forecheck, quick short passes, 5 man unit, beat the first checker into our zone with a quick pass, play with speed. Good formula.

VERY different from last year, too, IMO. A lot more 1-2-2 last year, single forechecker.

I did not project BUF to make their great leap forward this season. I was thinking it would be next year.

-I overvalued the loss of ROR (although the Sabres will still need an NHL-caliber #2 center to win a playoff series).
-I underestimated how smooth, calm, consistent, and impactful Dahlin would be.
-I did not expect Bogo to resurrect in the manner he has - "Phoenix" indeed.
-I did not expect the defense as a whole to be as cohesive as it has been; their foibles have been far less than last season.
-I did not expect Hutton and Ullmark to steal the number of games they have.
-I did not expect the sum of the above to neutralize Housley's "decision" making and in-game management.
-I did not expect the Sabres to start so many games as strongly as they have so far, when last year they slept-walked through the opening period on well over half their games (it seemed).

 

[Dreakon13]

No you agreed. He looked like arse. Exactly what we see now.

Exactly what we see now... but more effective in camp scrimmages and against preseason lineups.

I think we can all agree he was exposed once the real games started and he needs quite a bit of work, but back in camp and preseason he looked good. Even Blues fans were feeling a little salty. It wasn't just me saying it.

 

[Matt Ress]

There’s a world of difference between what someone said, he is one of the worst players in the league, and he has a ton of potential.

He is both, not a very good nhl player right now and he has great tools to become very good.

I think the previous poster understands just fine.

Well then it's pretty disingenuous to mention one and not the other, then expect the reader to assume you meant to convey both but simply didn't bother. So no, the poster didn't understand or you're just putting words in his mouth.