TSN: The Drouin Saga Part II - "How You Drouin?"

[Runner77]

Why not just be patient and develop these players and that team?

I don't want to give up McCarron either, now that he has shown top 6 upside. He's a better fit for the smallish, soft team that we have been and is being groomed to play centre.

Only issue is if we believe in Bergevin's attempts to land Drouin, which may or may not be founded. And if they are, I'd much rather trade Beaulieu than McCarron. We can always acquire another D, big sized potential top 6 centres like McCarron are rarely available.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Isn't Tampa set on the left side with Hedman and Coburn anyways?

Sure, they could improve on Coburn but I don't see why that's a crying need specially when they're possibly going to lose 2 top forwards in Stamkos and Drouin.

Something around the likes of Scherbak, a 1st and a choice between Andrighetto/Hudon/De La Rose would be fair price.

Coburn plays on the right side.

 

[G0bias]

Coburn plays on the right side.

Thanks yeah I wasn't 100% sure.
So I guess that would make sense to want to improve on Garrison.

But my point still stands, they're about to lose Stamkos and Drouin, and the triplets line has struggled this year... and yet Yzerman wants defense?

 

[MXD]

That would be your opinion of a fair price, most likely not Yzerman's. He might say you are overvaluing your players and it is not a fair price for him.

I see so many posts on what is fair value for Drouin, but what really is fair? That a player has more value to one team than another certainly comes into play and is part of the dynamics of trades. That difference in value however, throws the meaning of fair all over the place. What one side considers fair value may not be considered fair by the other side.

So what is fair? Fair is a completed trade. Trades that are completed are done with what both sides have agreed to as a fair and agreeable price for both. If and when a trade is made, only then we'll know what is the fair price from both sides. If no trade is completed, then an agreeable and what is a fair price for both teams has not been realized.

I'll reword : a Beaulieu for Drouin swap cannot be considered a fair trade by the Habs, unless value is wrongly attributed.

Or unless we want to tank in season, in which case I still wouldn't exactly start with Beaulieu. Because that trade makes us infinitely weaker on D and, well, unprovingly better on O.

Yeah, we lack O. With Drouin, we still lack O AND we lack D.

 

[LePoche69]

I wouldn't be surprised if Drouin isn't trade at all. It wouldn't be the first time a kid asked for a trade and ends up staying with the team for many years.

Really, if Yzerman is to lose Stamkos, he should keep Drouin. It is his safer bet at having a star player up front.

Then trade Stamkos for that wanted Right-D and more.

 

[MXD]

Thanks yeah I wasn't 100% sure.
So I guess that would make sense to want to improve on Garrison.

But my point still stands, they're about to lose Stamkos and Drouin, and the triplets line has struggled this year... and yet Yzerman wants defense?

Well, Carle is overpaid by about 5 millions, that is, every penny above minimum salary (think about it : 0 points in 33 games for a guy who's generally very bad at defense). Garrison is borderline as a Top-4 option.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

I wouldn't be surprised if Drouin isn't trade at all. It wouldn't be the first time a kid asked for a trade and ends up staying with the team for many years.

Really, if Yzerman is to lose Stamkos, he should keep Drouin. It is his safer bet at having a star player up front.

Then trade Stamkos for that wanted Right-D and more.

Look at Harmonic. His request came a long time ago for reasons that would elicit some sympathy. No trade yet.

 

[Wats]

I have nothing against getting Drouin. I just have problems with the unreasonable prices that some are ready to pay.

Hell, take a look on the Trade Boards. Rumors of Fabbri for Drouin. Blues fanbase not amused...

Blues develop good forwards with ease, it's realistic for their fans to expect good forwards from who they drafted and developed like Fabbri. Habs on the other hand have had little luck. Having one of Scherbak/DLR/Andirghetto/McCarron to be as good as Gallagher would be deemed huge success.

 

[Bob b smith]

If you consider trading Beaulieu, McCarron or Sherbak, you better have a pretty good idea what you're giving away... We've messed up with young players transactions (won't bring up old wounds).

On the other hand, this offence is a rickety old truck with no money being invested despite the parts rotting and falling off. Something needs to happen.

 

[RealityBytes]

I'll reword : a Beaulieu for Drouin swap cannot be considered a fair trade by the Habs, unless value is wrongly attributed.

Or unless we want to tank in season, in which case I still wouldn't exactly start with Beaulieu. Because that trade makes us infinitely weaker on D and, well, unprovingly better on O.

Yeah, we lack O. With Drouin, we still lack O AND we lack D.

That is only your determination of value, not necessarily what Yzerman's value of those players is, or what he considers acceptable value for his team. If you consider that too much value to give up and/or Yzerman doesn't consider it enough or fair, then no trade takes place. That a player has more value to one team than another certainly comes into play and is part of the dynamics of trades. It seems that Beaulieu has more value to the Habs but that value does not necessarily equally convert to what is his value to TB.

To restate. A fair trade is only when both sides are agreeable and acceptable on what is considered fair value for both of them.

(Not to make it more complex, but trades are actually only initiated when a team wants to gain value for what they have, and a recipient accepting a trade the same.)

 

[BJG]

To restate. A fair trade is only when both sides are agreeable and acceptable on what is considered fair value for both of them.

“A good compromise is when both parties are dissatisfied†― Larry David

 

[MXD]

Blues develop good forwards with ease, it's realistic for their fans to expect good forwards from who they drafted and developed like Fabbri. Habs on the other hand have had little luck. Having one of Scherbak/DLR/Andirghetto/McCarron to be as good as Gallagher would be deemed huge success.

...Yeah. And honestly, I'd add Hudon to that list. I like his chances better than Andrighetto and DLR at this point (and I'll reserve my thoughts on Scherbak).

That is only your determination of value, not necessarily what Yzerman's value of those players is, or what he considers acceptable value for his team. If you consider that too much value to give up and/or Yzerman doesn't consider it enough or fair, then no trade takes place. That a player has more value to one team than another certainly comes into play and is part of the dynamics of trades. It seems that Beaulieu has more value to the Habs but that value does not necessarily equally convert to what is his value to TB.

To restate. A fair trade is only when both sides are agreeable and acceptable on what is considered fair value for both of them.

...Yeah. I mean, you're right, and at some point, it's obvious. No GM concludes a deal if he thinks he's getting screwed.

Value is also a very relative concept. With the idea of going for it this season, Beaulieu is more valuable. If we're retooling, well, it's different. Beaulieu is signed on a sweetheart of a deal for the next two seasons and is incredible value, even if ends up being a regular on the 2nd pairing, in the eventuality that MB goes for another LD able to play above Beaulieu and Markov on the depth chart (which would... let's say, surprise me a lot). Besides, if we're going for it this season, there are much wiser choices than gambling on potential.

If anything, the idea that Beaulieu's developpement has stalled (or that he's otherwise fully developped, because he's indeed absolutely a solid Top-4 D at the moment) seems a very convenient excuse to make a trade that would create a huge problem while only partially patching another. Mind you, we lack size as well upfront...

 

[Malreg]

I wouldn't be surprised if Drouin isn't trade at all. It wouldn't be the first time a kid asked for a trade and ends up staying with the team for many years.

Really, if Yzerman is to lose Stamkos, he should keep Drouin. It is his safer bet at having a star player up front.

Then trade Stamkos for that wanted Right-D and more.

There's a difference between a player who privately makes a trade request, and one who does so around the same time the coach is extended for multiple years, and then 2 months later has his agent issue a public statement repeating that request. He clearly has given up on that team and cannot get along with Cooper.

And you can't compare this to Hamonic, who has repeatedly said he loves the Islanders organization and playing in New York. They have no worries about keeping a player like that around their team due to the circumstances behind the request.

 

[sergejean]

I'm not sure why you keep trying to infer all these unrelated points to your Drouin love that have zero to do with the argument at hand.

Drouin is no doubt an interesting prospect. No one is denying that. It's at what price? If awuiring him leaves you with a massive hole on your D and a in your prospect pool and doesn't add any immediate relief which is goal SCORING (he has 6 goals in his 90+ game NHL career) then how does this help the Habs.

Even from a long term perspective, 3rd overall picks are hardly a slam dunk and he hasn't shown anything to show he'll be otherwise. Going over this list in retospect, there aren't many names id give up McCarron, Beaulieu and a 1st for at any point in their development, much less at such an early unproven age. http://www.mynhldraft.com/nhl-draft-picks/3rd-overall/30509/

So not sure what the incredible need for Drouin is now just because he demanded a trade rather than play through his contract and play for his team and coach which ALL 20 y.o rookies should do. I can't even remember if an ELC player has ever even asked for a trade in the past. Considering who else is available and can be had for the same or less and would be more impactful, id pass on Drouin at that price.

Drouin has put up 30+ points in a limited role at the age of 19/20. Is it that far fetched to believe he will fulfill his potential? Looking back at recent history, it seems that teams are highly increasing their chances at winning the Stanley Cup when relying on a game changing offensive dynamo and a superstar defenseman. Who will be our gamebreaking offensive threat? How will we be acquiring him? At what cost? I believe that Drouin will be breaking out soon and when he does it will be too late to acquire him. Right now is a unique opportunity to acquire him without touching our nucleus. Our window of opportunity is now and for the next 2-3 years! Exactly when Drouin should be emerging. We already have our gamebreaker at the blue line. We have the best goalie in the world! We have our sniper. We have some grit and quality utility players! All we're missing is the offensive gamebreaker!

So the incredible need is to compete for the Stanley Cup! What other gamebreaker or potential gamebreaker is there currently available? Who are they? I can't think of any.

 

[Canadian_Brewtality]

Jets/Blues/avs have much more interesting pieces

 

[Tourist]

I'd be very tempted to acquire Drouin.

Habs lack scoring. To score, you need finishers and you need playmakers. Our finishers aren't so bad. We have a few players with good to elite shots:

Pacioretty
Galchenyuk
Plekanec
Eller
Andrighetto

On top of that, we have another group of forwards who may not have great shots but are good at getting into positions to score garbage goals:

Gallagher
Weise
Carr

Now, lets look at the playmakers. Players who are good at setting up linemates and creating chances:

Galchenyuk
Desharnais
Plekanec

Galchenyuk still needs polishing. He creates tonnes of chances but lacks efficiency with his last move, whether it's a deke, a pass or a shot.

Desharnais is mediocre. He has good poise and passes well but his lack of shooting makes him predictable, therefore less efficient. That's not even getting into the size and strength issue.

Plekanec has very little creativity. He racks up assists because he is good at executing simple plays when the opening is there, especially off the rush, but as soon as things tighten up he has trouble finding solutions.

IMO, playmaking is a bigger weakness than finishing right now. Of course, Galchenyuk will get better. He may never be as good as a P.Kane or Kopitar but I think he could certainly match a guy like Krejci. But even if/when Galchenyuk does get to the next level playmaking overall would still be a weakness, as the rest of the group is not very good in that department.

In that sense I think Drouin would fill a need. We don't have a premier playmaker like Kane/Kopitar/Krejci yet (I'm looking at you Chucky) but he could contribute to the existing group of players with a playmaker profile. I'm sure he could complement Plekanec or Galchenyuk himself really well.

 

[Habsawce]

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

Maybe Shattenkirk would be available with the emergence of Parayko, but I doubt they do that. If they create a package around Fabbri we can do better.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Drouin has put up 30+ points in a limited role at the age of 19/20. Is it that far fetched to believe he will fulfill his potential? Looking back at recent history, it seems that teams are highly increasing their chances at winning the Stanley Cup when relying on a game changing offensive dynamo and a superstar defenseman. Who will be our gamebreaking offensive threat? How will we be acquiring him? At what cost? I believe that Drouin will be breaking out soon and when he does it will be too late to acquire him. Right now is a unique opportunity to acquire him without touching our nucleus. Our window of opportunity is now and for the next 2-3 years! Exactly when Drouin should be emerging. We already have our gamebreaker at the blue line. We have the best goalie in the world! We have our sniper. We have some grit and quality utility players! All we're missing is the offensive gamebreaker!

So the incredible need is to compete for the Stanley Cup! What other gamebreaker or potential gamebreaker is there currently available? Who are they? I can't think of any.

Staal, Eberle, Marleau, Skinner etc come to mind right away all having a lot more proven NHL experience and add scoring, not assists as we don't have anyone who puts the puck in the net regularly other than Patches. As teams drop out of the playoffs more and more names will become available.

 

[sergejean]

Staal, Eberle, Marleau, Skinner etc come to mind right away all having a lot more proven NHL experience and add scoring, not assists as we don't have anyone who puts the puck in the net regularly other than Patches. As teams drop out of the playoffs more and more names will become available.

Staal and Marleau are too old. I wouldn't trade for them. Eberle and Skinner could be interesting, I prefer Skinner personnally, but I don't see them as superstars. They're good, not great. Neither of them would come cheap either both in terms of value going the other way OR cap hit.

No, I prefer swinging for the fence with Drouin. I think he will be a better player anyway. He will also be cheaper as far as the cap hit goes for the next year and maybe more.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Shattenkirk, Fabbri would be a home run for Tampa... WOW

 

[Sterling Archer]

Staal and Marleau are too old. I wouldn't trade for them. Eberle and Skinner could be interesting, I prefer Skinner personnally, but I don't see them as superstars. They're good, not great. Neither of them would come cheap either both in terms of value going the other way AND cap hit.

No, I prefer swinging for the fence with Drouin. I think he will be a better player anyway. He will also be cheaper as far as the cap hit goes for the next year and maybe more.

You're entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is

 

[Runner77]

Staal, Eberle, Marleau, Skinner etc come to mind right away all having a lot more proven NHL experience and add scoring, not assists as we don't have anyone who puts the puck in the net regularly other than Patches. As teams drop out of the playoffs more and more names will become available.

I hope the team doesn't add more soft players unless it's as a rental. If they're going to commit to a longer term talent, let's add where we have had the most issues. We have enough smallish speedy players with the team and in the system, we can certainly land a scorer who brings other qualities.

 

[HabsQC]

Lars Eller, Charles Hudon, Jarred Tinordi, 2017 1st, 2016 2nd for Drouin

 

[vokiel]

Lars Eller, Charles Hudon, Jarred Tinordi, 2017 1st, 2016 2nd for Drouin

Easily no from Tampa. They're looking for Quality for Quality trades, not Quantity for Quality.